From: "Robert C. Leif, Ph.D." <rleif@rleif.com>
To: <comp.lang.ada@ada.eu.org>
Subject: RE: Compiler for Z80/6510
Date: 1999/11/26
Date: 1999-11-27T06:13:22+00:00 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <NBBBJNOMKDIAJALCEFIJAEMFDFAA.rleif@rleif.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 1103_943587334@DZOG-CHEN
From: Bob Leif
To: Comp.Lang.Ada
I attended the original presentation. I believe the key was it was possible
for the compiler by brute force to try a huge number of possibilities. I
also believe that the CPU was a DSP. DSPs can have peculiar architectures
that can be better suited for machine than human analysis.
In any event, if a computer can beat a chess grand-master, it should be
possible to beat a human creating assembly code. Again, being possible need
not mean that it is practical for all situations today.
-----Original Message-----
From: USENET News Admin @flash [mailto:news@sd.aonix.com]On Behalf Of Ed
Falis
Sent: Thursday, November 25, 1999 7:36 PM
To: comp.lang.ada@ada.eu.org
Subject: Re: Compiler for Z80/6510
On Thu, 25 Nov 1999 23:38:20 GMT, Peter Milliken
<peter.milliken@australia.boeing.com> wrote:
> Would you care to comment then on the paper written by Lawlis and Elam
> which was published in Tri-Ada '92 titled "Ada Outperforms Assembly: A
> Case Study" where, in point 6, they draw conclusions such as: compiler
> optimisation has reached such a state of the art that it can implement
> "hundreds of heuristics from a library of knowledge in this area of
> technology" and generate code which can "beat assembly code in both size
> and performance"?
>
> I am curious, on the one hand we have this paper (advertised in the Ada
> Home page) and on the other hand, experienced compiler writers such as
> yourself. These statements seem to contradict each other. I do not have
> any experience in compiler writing but I have been prepared to accept
> the paper at it's face value (having no way to confirm or deny :-)). Did
> Lawlis and Elam get it wrong? Were they correct for their particular
> circumstances and environment? I have shown the paper to non Ada
> software engineers and received various responses, the worst being open
> ridicule and statements that the paper must be a pure fabrication.
>
> Thanks
> Peter
My take on it, having been involved in Ada compilers for a long time, is
that an optimizing compiler can do well compared to the average programmer,
turned to assembly language. But, a good assembly programmer for a given
architecture can do better. This isn't rocket science - human intelligence
generally
beats what we can simulate with machines.
- Ed
next prev parent reply other threads:[~1999-11-26 0:00 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 50+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
1999-11-24 0:00 Compiler for Z80/6510 Lutz Donnerhacke
1999-11-24 0:00 ` Frank Klemm
1999-11-24 0:00 ` Lutz Donnerhacke
1999-11-24 0:00 ` Tucker Taft
1999-11-24 0:00 ` Wil
1999-11-25 0:00 ` Lutz Donnerhacke
1999-11-25 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1999-11-25 0:00 ` Peter Milliken
1999-11-26 0:00 ` Tarjei Jensen
1999-11-26 0:00 ` Ed Falis
1999-11-26 0:00 ` Robert C. Leif, Ph.D. [this message]
1999-11-27 0:00 ` Florian Weimer
1999-11-28 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
[not found] ` <01bf38cb$be9b2b60$022a6282@dieppe>
1999-11-28 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1999-11-28 0:00 ` Robert A Duff
1999-11-30 0:00 ` Pascal Obry
1999-12-06 0:00 ` Richard D Riehle
1999-11-26 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1999-11-26 0:00 ` Robert A Duff
1999-11-27 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1999-12-01 0:00 ` Robert I. Eachus
1999-12-02 0:00 ` Larry Kilgallen
1999-12-02 0:00 ` Robert I. Eachus
1999-12-03 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1999-12-03 0:00 ` Robert I. Eachus
1999-12-06 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1999-12-13 0:00 ` Robert I. Eachus
1999-12-13 0:00 ` carr_tom
1999-12-17 0:00 ` Robert I. Eachus
1999-12-19 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1999-12-21 0:00 ` Robert I. Eachus
1999-12-23 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1999-12-23 0:00 ` Robert I. Eachus
1999-11-26 0:00 ` Vladimir Olensky
1999-11-26 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1999-11-26 0:00 ` Vladimir Olensky
1999-11-27 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1999-11-28 0:00 ` Vladimir Olensky
1999-11-29 0:00 ` Marin Condic
1999-11-29 0:00 ` Robert C. Leif, Ph.D.
1999-11-29 0:00 ` Lutz Donnerhacke
1999-11-29 0:00 ` Marin Condic
1999-11-29 0:00 ` Lutz Donnerhacke
1999-11-29 0:00 ` Mike Silva
1999-11-29 0:00 ` Marin Condic
1999-11-29 0:00 ` Mike Silva
1999-11-29 0:00 ` John Duncan
1999-11-30 0:00 ` Lutz Donnerhacke
1999-11-30 0:00 ` Tarjei Jensen
1999-12-01 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
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