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From: "Stephane Richard" <stephane.richard@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Standard Library Interest?
Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 01:27:08 GMT
Date: 2003-11-03T01:27:08+00:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <M9ipb.41202$294.31688@nwrdny03.gnilink.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: PomdnQFWG_DaNziiRVn-hQ@comcast.com

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"Robert I. Eachus" <rieachus@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:PomdnQFWG_DaNziiRVn-hQ@comcast.com...
>
>
> Marin David Condic wrote:
>
> > Perhaps some other vendors may come out with a different answer, but it
> > isn't looking like they want to start jumping on the bandwagon, does it?
> > It wouldn't much matter *how* it got built (all-volunteer or some mix of
> > funding, from some TBD sources, etc.) The interest level from the
> > vendors is asymptotically approaching zero as far as I can tell.
>
> > So maybe a library is a bad idea. (I don't think so) If so, then I hope
> > the vendors or ARG can come up with some *other* idea that is going to
> > generate some new interest in Ada. Why is it I can hear Danny DiVito in
> > the background reciting his speech from "Other People's Money": "I'm
> > sure at one time there must have been hundreds of companies out there
> > making buggy whips...." (Substitute "Ada Compilers" for "Buggy Whips"
;-)
>
> I think that in one sense asking the Ada compiler vendors is necessary.
>   But in another it is irrelevant.  If we know what users want and
> provide it, the compiler vendors will be asked by THEIR customers to
> provide and support it.  If the end users don't want it, won't use it,
> or can't use it, then this whole effort is a waste of time.
>
> Of course, to some extent compiler vendors are Ada programmers/users,
> and they are in touch with their customers and their needs.
>
> Some years ago, I worked out the right solution--form an Ada software
> engineering guild, or for that matter a software engineer's guild, and
> one of the functions of the guild would be to provide and support a
> library that could be used by its members.  (Including corporate
> members.)  If you could get the system to insist on only using guild
> licensed programmers in the correct disciplines, and guild software
> engineers on certain types of projects this would finally give software
> engineering a realistic model to work with.
>
> Anyone who really is a software engineer not a glorified programmer,
> knows that the only way software engineering is taught is not in school
> but by mentoring.  And most corporations don't have a mechanism for
> recognizing mentoring effort, and people who have in effect graduated
> from apprentice to journeyman, or from journeyman to master.
>
> But all that is way beyond what we can accomplish here.  But I do feel
> that doing the registry right will give us both a better idea of what
> exists and a way to track what is used or wanted.
>
> Finally, note that once we do get a group well organized to create a
> common Ada library that will be used, we can survey both c.l.a and
> SIGAda to find out what people think they want--and what they currently
> use or have used, etc.
>


Seems I've failed at my goal here :-).  I wanted to cover the vendors side
not only as far as "investments" but also as far as possibility to incude
our effort in they distros, and attempt to get insight on what they want and
what they think their clients want.  I have to agree with IRVINE that
customers aren't really looking at compiler vendors to bring them our
project, however I agree with you that should this first part, the registry,
be done and done right (which I must say is well under way from what I'm
seing in your XML and your frame of mind :-).  it will give is that
information that us and everyone else (vendors alike, SIG Ada and the others
too) a good representation of today's Ada reality as far as what's there,
where is it, and most preciously and ultimately what's left to be done. so
I'm definitally all for this initial phase.

But I've failed at my side so far because the reason I did this survey was
mainly

1. to know possible answers to the every repeating questions I've asked the
vendors maybe try to at least get a hint as to what we should do next....so
far, to me, the registry is the only "logical" next step for both not
reproducing the code, and knowing exactly what to attack next code wise.

2. I've also contacted compiler vendors for the purpose of settling issues
as in those of us who had beliefs of vendors participating financially or
with a good time effort or any other way, see if it could happen and when in
the process of our project it could happen..from what I'm seeing so far,
only at the end or at least at the end of the registry phase.  But I wanted
those that were aslking questions to get their answers :-).  Not raise new
doubts...I got 3 vendors on the wait for their replies we'll have to see
what their answers are (should there even be an answer.  Aoniz agreed to
answer the survey but I've not yet gotten anything.  The oither two well
just waiting...they've been contacted :-).

As er the survey, once the registry is done, like Robert suggests, we'll be
better equited to:

1. Evaluate the work left to be done to amass to a presentable solution.
2. See exactly what in there can be "reasonably" done as per a voluntary
effort.
3. What (if any) can't possible be done by a voluntary effort.
4. See what parts of the registry need to be filled up that could
potentially attract different types of customers and new customers of the
same existing types too
5. Compare what's out there with what's out there for other languages and
maybe attack these areas (which? not sure yet but I'm still thinking what
the other languages offer that Ada does not in terms of libraries.
6. See in the existing code, if there's any dependencies that shoudl be
replaced with non dependant code (should there be a possible non dependant
alternative).

A couple more pieces of information will arise from this registry too that
I'm not thinking of right now but did recently ;-)....

With these, the rest will fall into place as far as work to be done, quality
of documentation required (perhaps by consulting WG's that do documentation
of the standard, perhaps they have tips and tricks to greatly minimize our
effort at good documentation.

-- 
St�phane Richard
"Ada World" Webmaster
http://www.adaworld.com






  reply	other threads:[~2003-11-03  1:27 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 285+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2003-10-05  0:09 Standard Library Interest? chris
2003-10-05  1:38 ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-05 11:44   ` chris
2003-10-05 15:16   ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-05 16:40     ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-05 19:22     ` Martin Dowie
2003-10-06 13:12       ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-06 17:09         ` Martin Dowie
2003-10-06 23:34           ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-07  0:23             ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-07 12:42               ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-07 13:17                 ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-07 17:17                   ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-07 17:42                     ` Larry Hazel
2003-10-07 19:36                       ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-07 20:31                         ` Stephen Leake
2003-10-07 21:56                           ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-08  1:11                             ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-08 16:07                               ` Martin Krischik
2003-10-10  4:38                                 ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-10 14:37                                   ` Stephen Leake
2003-10-10 16:24                                     ` Martin Dowie
2003-10-11 14:16                                       ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-12  1:30                                         ` Martin Dowie
2003-10-12  2:46                                           ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-11 14:07                                     ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-14 14:20                                       ` Stephen Leake
2003-10-14 19:14                                         ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-14 19:27                                           ` Stephen Leake
2003-10-15 12:27                                             ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-15 12:42                                               ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-10 16:46                                   ` Martin Krischik
2003-10-10 18:00                                     ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-12 11:19                                       ` Martin Krischik
2003-10-12 14:48                                         ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-11 14:22                                     ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-09 10:50                               ` Ching Bon Lam
2003-10-09 12:11                                 ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-09 17:16                                   ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-10-09 18:30                                     ` tmoran
2003-10-10  1:29                                   ` Frank
2003-10-10  8:19                                     ` chris
2003-10-10  2:53                                   ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-08 15:55                             ` Stephen Leake
2003-10-08 16:49                               ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-08 17:18                               ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-10  2:59                                 ` Hyman Rosen
2003-10-08 19:54                             ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-08 21:40                               ` Stephen Leake
2003-10-09 12:28                               ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-09 15:18                                 ` Stefan Lucks
2003-10-09 16:10                                   ` Stephen Leake
2003-10-09 16:57                                     ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-10  4:58                                     ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-10  9:28                                     ` Stefan Lucks
2003-10-10 14:59                                       ` Stephen Leake
2003-10-10 16:48                                         ` Ed Falis
2003-10-10 16:29                                       ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-10-11  7:01                                         ` Simon Wright
2003-10-10 15:51                                     ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-10 17:04                                       ` Stephen Leake
2003-10-10  3:02                                 ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-10  5:17                                   ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-10 16:38                                     ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-10-11 14:35                                       ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-15 16:24                                         ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-10-15 17:57                                           ` Ed Falis
2003-10-15 20:45                                             ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-10-15 20:44                                           ` Mark A. Biggar
2003-10-16 12:55                                             ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-16 16:52                                               ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-10-16 17:53                                                 ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-17 13:25                                                   ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-10-18 13:50                                                     ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-21 17:14                                                       ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-10-22 13:04                                                         ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-22 16:46                                                           ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-10-22 17:13                                                             ` Ed Falis
2003-10-23  5:23                                                               ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-23 13:55                                                                 ` Ed Falis
2003-10-23  5:21                                                             ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-27 17:37                                                               ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-10-28  1:53                                                                 ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-16 12:38                                           ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-16 17:16                                             ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-10-16 18:02                                               ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-16 18:23                                                 ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-17  0:36                                                 ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-17  1:24                                                   ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-17  1:40                                                   ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-17  2:34                                                     ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-17 12:45                                                       ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-16 18:04                                               ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-17 20:09                                                 ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2003-10-20 17:40                                                   ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-21 20:55                                                     ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-10-21 22:46                                                     ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-21 21:02                                                 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-10-10 18:44                                     ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-11 14:42                                       ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-11 15:10                                         ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-11 17:58                                           ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-12  1:01                                             ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-12  0:51                                           ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-12  1:17                                             ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-12  2:10                                               ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-12  5:14                                                 ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-12 13:39                                                   ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-12  1:20                                             ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-12  2:32                                               ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-12 11:14                                                 ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-16 13:18                                                   ` aleistad
2003-10-07 22:12                           ` tmoran
2003-10-07 22:37                           ` Alexandre E. Kopilovitch
2003-10-08 16:03                           ` Martin Krischik
2003-10-09 13:28                           ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2003-10-28 11:25                         ` Marius Amado Alves
2003-10-28 12:52                           ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-28 13:28                             ` Marius Amado Alves
2003-10-28 23:20                               ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-28 13:21                           ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-28 16:21                           ` Standard Library Interest? (The Big Player ACT) Stephane Richard
2003-10-28 23:37                             ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-29  1:12                               ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-29 14:35                               ` Marc A. Criley
2003-10-29 23:10                                 ` tmoran
2003-10-29 23:34                                 ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-31 14:42                                   ` Georg Bauhaus
2003-11-01  3:05                                     ` Marin David Condic
2003-11-01  3:50                                       ` Stephane Richard
2003-11-01 13:20                                         ` Marin David Condic
2003-11-02 16:41                                       ` Georg Bauhaus
2003-11-02 19:25                                         ` Marin David Condic
2003-11-01  7:20                                     ` Simon Wright
2003-11-02 17:04                                       ` Georg Bauhaus
2003-11-02 15:09                             ` Standard Library Interest? (The Big Player IRVINE) Stephane Richard
2003-11-02 16:18                               ` Marius Amado Alves
2003-11-02 16:35                                 ` Stephane Richard
2003-11-02 22:41                               ` Marin David Condic
2003-11-03  1:07                                 ` Standard Library Interest? Robert I. Eachus
2003-11-03  1:27                                   ` Stephane Richard [this message]
2003-11-03 12:52                                     ` Marin David Condic
2003-11-03  3:58                                   ` Alexandre E. Kopilovitch
2003-11-03  6:28                                     ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-11-03 12:11                                       ` Jeff C,
2003-11-03 17:07                                         ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-11-04 18:07                                       ` Alexandre E. Kopilovitch
2003-11-03  7:54                                     ` Mark A. Biggar
2003-11-03 21:02                                       ` Alexandre E. Kopilovitch
2003-11-04  1:50                                         ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-11-04 18:16                                           ` Jeffrey Carter
2003-11-06  2:07                                           ` Alexandre E. Kopilovitch
2003-11-03 15:14                                     ` Robert Spooner
2003-11-03 15:38                                       ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-11-03 16:52                                       ` Alexandre E. Kopilovitch
2003-11-03 12:36                                   ` Marin David Condic
     [not found]                         ` <1067340353.3441.18.camel@localhost.localdomain>
2003-10-28 11:30                           ` Marius Amado Alves
2003-10-08  1:07                       ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-08  1:15                         ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-08  1:32                           ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-08 15:58                           ` Stephen Leake
2003-10-08 17:24                             ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-07 18:19                     ` Martin Dowie
2003-10-07 19:29                       ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-07 20:30                         ` Martin Dowie
2003-10-08  1:15                       ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-08 21:56                         ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-08 23:56                           ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-09  0:29                             ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-10 16:47                             ` POSIX File Structure Conventions for Ada (Was: Standard Library Interest?) Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-10-10 17:17                               ` Ludovic Brenta
2003-10-11 16:25                                 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-10-09 12:42                           ` Standard Library Interest? Marin David Condic
2003-10-09 13:07                             ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-10  3:15                               ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-10  8:10                                 ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-10 12:49                                   ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-10 13:20                                     ` Jeff C,
2003-10-11 14:48                                       ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-11 15:09                                         ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-10 19:22                                   ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-11 11:30                                     ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-11 12:36                                     ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-11 17:41                                       ` sk
2003-10-11 17:43                                         ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-11 18:08                                       ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-11 18:11                                         ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-12  1:33                                         ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-12  5:16                                           ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-15 16:42                                         ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-10-15 16:35                                     ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-10-16 12:59                                       ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-17 19:54                                         ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
     [not found]                   ` <8d6b51-0u3.ln1@beastie.ix.netcom.com>
2003-10-07 23:58                     ` Stephane Richard
     [not found]                       ` <f8nc51-gv2.ln1@beastie.ix.netcom.com>
2003-10-08 12:45                         ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-08 16:00                         ` Stephen Leake
2003-10-08 17:37                           ` Stephane Richard
     [not found]                           ` <hdbf51-523.ln1@beastie.ix.netcom.com>
2003-10-09 14:24                             ` Hyman Rosen
2003-10-10 12:06                               ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-10 15:03                                 ` Stephen Leake
2003-10-05 17:41   ` Georg Bauhaus
2003-10-05 17:48     ` chris
2003-10-05 23:57     ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-07  1:44       ` Georg Bauhaus
2003-10-08 20:44         ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-09  2:05           ` Alexandre E. Kopilovitch
2003-10-09  5:39             ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-09  9:06               ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-10-05 14:49 ` Martin Krischik
2003-10-05 15:25   ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-05 15:51     ` sk
2003-10-05 18:23       ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-05 19:14         ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-06 13:15           ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-05 19:35         ` Jeffrey Carter
2003-10-06  9:46           ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-06 13:16             ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-06 14:44               ` Stephane Richard
2003-10-06 16:51               ` Martin Krischik
2003-10-06 16:48         ` Martin Krischik
2003-10-06 23:38           ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-06 16:42     ` Martin Krischik
2003-10-06 23:39       ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-05 15:02 ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-05 16:43   ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-05 18:31     ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-07  1:58       ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-07 12:48         ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-08 20:49           ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-05 17:49   ` Georg Bauhaus
2003-10-05 18:43     ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-05 23:26       ` Georg Bauhaus
2003-10-06 13:27         ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-10 16:58           ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-10-11  9:55             ` Martin Dowie
2003-10-15 16:51               ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-10-16 12:14                 ` Martin Dowie
2003-10-22 16:48                   ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-10-05 19:27   ` Martin Dowie
2003-10-06 13:33     ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-06 17:16       ` Martin Dowie
2003-10-06 23:45         ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-06 16:47     ` chris
2003-10-06 19:03       ` sk
2003-10-06 20:18         ` chris
2003-10-06 21:13           ` sk
2003-10-20  3:22             ` Dave Thompson
2003-10-20 10:29               ` sk
2003-10-07  0:30           ` Mark Lorenzen
2003-10-07  2:13     ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-07 22:49       ` Georg Bauhaus
2003-10-08 20:58         ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-09 12:57           ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-10  3:09             ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-06  7:02   ` Preben Randhol
2003-10-06 13:37     ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-06 14:34       ` Preben Randhol
2003-10-06 23:50         ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-07  8:55           ` Preben Randhol
2003-10-07 13:05             ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-06 19:37       ` tmoran
2003-10-06 23:57         ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-08 21:46           ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-09  8:10             ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
2003-10-10  2:29               ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-09  9:20             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2003-10-09 13:09             ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-10 14:44               ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-11 14:57                 ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-11 18:25                   ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-12  1:49                     ` Marin David Condic
2003-10-12  3:52                       ` Robert I. Eachus
2003-10-06 13:50     ` (see below)
2003-10-06 15:28       ` Preben Randhol
2003-10-06 19:37         ` tmoran
2003-10-07  8:59           ` Preben Randhol
2003-10-05 23:33 ` Robert C. Leif
2003-10-06  9:02 ` Vadim Godunko
2003-10-07  0:48 ` Matthew Heaney
2003-10-07  8:56   ` Preben Randhol
2003-10-07 13:08     ` Marin David Condic
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2003-10-10 13:46 Beard, Frank Randolph CIV
2003-10-11  7:33 ` Martin Krischik
2003-10-11 15:04 ` Marin David Condic
     [not found] <mailman.191.1066918723.25614.comp.lang.ada@ada-france.org>
2003-10-23 14:26 ` Ed Falis
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