Solid facts to promote Ada

Solid facts to promote Ada

[Adrian Hoe]

Hi all,

I've just made available my paper, "Software Development Reengineering - 
An Experience Report", on my web site "a d r i a n h o e . c o m" (sorry 
for the spaces, gotta avoid spammers :)

This paper was published in the conference proceeding of Ada-Europe 
2002. It has real numbers to proof that Ada is a better language over 
others, instead of statements claiming Ada is better.

This paper may complement Jack Ganssle's article "My love-hate 
relationship with C" in Embedded.com (see Volkert's post on Oct 21).

Regards,
-- 
Adrian Hoe
m a i l b o x AT a d r i a n h o e . c o m

Re: Solid facts to promote Ada

[Preben Randhol]

On 2003-10-23, Adrian Hoe <AdrianHoe@nowhere.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I've just made available my paper, "Software Development Reengineering - 
> An Experience Report", on my web site "a d r i a n h o e . c o m" (sorry 
> for the spaces, gotta avoid spammers :)

Actually, your web page is: http://www.adrianhoe.com/
and there is no need to put spaces in a url. 

-- 
"Saving keystrokes is the job of the text editor, not the programming
 language."

Re: Solid facts to promote Ada

[Jeff C,]

"Preben Randhol" <randhol+valid_for_reply_from_news@pvv.org> wrote in
message
news:slrnbpf2m1.q8.randhol+valid_for_reply_from_news@kiuk0156.chembio.ntnu.no...
> On 2003-10-23, Adrian Hoe <AdrianHoe@nowhere.com> wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I've just made available my paper, "Software Development Reengineering -
> > An Experience Report", on my web site "a d r i a n h o e . c o m" (sorry
> > for the spaces, gotta avoid spammers :)
>
> Actually, your web page is: XXXXXXXX
> and there is no need to put spaces in a url.
>
> -- 
> "Saving keystrokes is the job of the text editor, not the programming
>  language."


Umm..Yes there is!. As a domain owner that receives (at times) 100+ fake
bounced emails
per day at times. Granted trying to mask the URL is probably somewhat
pointless since
there are many ways spammers can find valid domains to spoof return
addresses but every little
bit you can do to protect your domain helps.

Notice that I started (about a month or two ago) stopped posting with my
real email address/name. I don't like doing
it and I realize that it is probably futile to try to stop these things, but
you really should respect the wishes
of the domain owner.

Re: Solid facts to promote Ada

[Steve]

"Preben Randhol" <randhol+valid_for_reply_from_news@pvv.org> wrote in
message
news:slrnbpf2m1.q8.randhol+valid_for_reply_from_news@kiuk0156.chembio.ntnu.no...
> On 2003-10-23, Adrian Hoe <AdrianHoe@nowhere.com> wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I've just made available my paper, "Software Development Reengineering -
> > An Experience Report", on my web site "a d r i a n h o e . c o m" (sorry
> > for the spaces, gotta avoid spammers :)
>
> Actually, your web page is: [snip]
> and there is no need to put spaces in a url.
>

Except perhaps that the original Adrian clearly did not want the address
posted the way you did.  Unfortunately there is no way of taking it back
now.

If you think there is no reason to put spaces in a url, say so, don't and
remove the spaces.  How RUDE!

Steve
(The Duck)

> -- 
> "Saving keystrokes is the job of the text editor, not the programming
>  language."

Re: Solid facts to promote Ada

[Preben Randhol]

On 2003-10-23, Jeff C, <nolongersafeto@userealemailsniff.com> wrote:

> Umm..Yes there is!. As a domain owner that receives (at times) 100+
> fake bounced emails per day at times. Granted trying to mask the URL
> is probably somewhat pointless since there are many ways spammers can
> find valid domains to spoof return addresses but every little bit you
> can do to protect your domain helps.

Use a filter. Just look at www.freshmeat.net there are plenty.  It is
very strange to have a domain, but never have anybody know of it in fear
of spammers.

> Notice that I started (about a month or two ago) stopped posting with
> my real email address/name. I don't like doing it and I realize that
> it is probably futile to try to stop these things, but you really
> should respect the wishes of the domain owner.

OK, I won't put a link to that page from my web page. However, on can
wonder why the web page exists at all if it is such a problem to share
the URL.


-- 
"Saving keystrokes is the job of the text editor, not the programming
 language."

Re: Solid facts to promote Ada

[Preben Randhol]

On 2003-10-23, Steve <nospam_steved94@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> Except perhaps that the original Adrian clearly did not want the address
> posted the way you did.  Unfortunately there is no way of taking it back
> now.

Then why ever post it at all? Why have a domain at all? There are plenty
of robots crawling the web finding addresses. My logs show they are
regularily visiting. However if this is a problem them you should really
check your setup and tools to use.

> If you think there is no reason to put spaces in a url, say so, don't and
> remove the spaces.  How RUDE!

The url wasn't correct.

Would be a nice future if one had to write any URL as a particualer
domain owner would like it like http://w w w . a d r i a n X X X . c o
m/  http://www.adapower+remove-this.com/ http://www.a d a w o r l
d+nospam-thankyou.com/ etc..

But ok at least I will remove the link I had planned to the paper from
my web page.

Preben
-- 
"Saving keystrokes is the job of the text editor, not the programming
 language."

Re: Solid facts to promote Ada

[Hyman Rosen]

Adrian Hoe wrote:
 > It has real numbers to proof that Ada is a better language over
> others, instead of statements claiming Ada is better.

It has no such thing. The only things that one can gather from this
paper is that it is possible to write a good system in Ada (duh!),
and that a freshly written re-engineered version of an existing
system is more maintainable than the old system. That last one also
merits a duh!, given that the existing system grew as a hodgepodge
of various implementation technologies.

This paper offers no reason to believe that the same re-engineering
would have been less successful using implementation languages other
than Ada.

Re: Solid facts to promote Ada

[Jeffrey Carter]

Jeff C, wrote:

> Notice that I started (about a month or two ago) stopped posting with my
> real name.

I can understand your concern, but why are you using my name? :)

-- 
Jeff Carter
"C++ is like jamming a helicopter inside a Miata
and expecting some sort of improvement."
Drew Olbrich
51

Re: Solid facts to promote Ada

[Adrian Hoe]

Preben Randhol wrote:
> On 2003-10-23, Adrian Hoe <AdrianHoe@nowhere.com> wrote:
> 
>>Hi all,
>>
>>I've just made available my paper, "Software Development Reengineering - 
>>An Experience Report", on my web site "a d r i a n h o e . c o m" (sorry 
>>for the spaces, gotta avoid spammers :)
> 
> 
> Actually, your web page is: http://www.adrianhoe.com/
                               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
By giving the actual url like above, it opens up a big vulnerability for 
spammers. Today, spammers use a software so effectively to collect email 
addresses and urls (and email addresses from urls) automatically. That's 
why I put spaces in the url, hopefully, spam software is not intelligent 
enough to recognize it. :)

> and there is no need to put spaces in a url. 
> 


-- 
Adrian Hoe
m a i l b o x AT a d r i a n h o e . c o m

Re: Solid facts to promote Ada

[Adrian Hoe]

Preben Randhol wrote:

> On 2003-10-23, Jeff C, <nolongersafeto@userealemailsniff.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>>Umm..Yes there is!. As a domain owner that receives (at times) 100+
>>fake bounced emails per day at times. Granted trying to mask the URL
>>is probably somewhat pointless since there are many ways spammers can
>>find valid domains to spoof return addresses but every little bit you
>>can do to protect your domain helps.
> 
> 
> Use a filter. Just look at www.freshmeat.net there are plenty.  It is
> very strange to have a domain, but never have anybody know of it in fear
> of spammers.
> 
> 
>>Notice that I started (about a month or two ago) stopped posting with
>>my real email address/name. I don't like doing it and I realize that
>>it is probably futile to try to stop these things, but you really
>>should respect the wishes of the domain owner.
> 
> 
> OK, I won't put a link to that page from my web page. However, on can
> wonder why the web page exists at all if it is such a problem to share
> the URL.
> 
> 



I received bounced emails which I never sent. Checking the IP of the 
email origin, I concluded someone is trying to spam using my domain name 
and possibly also my smtp. That's horrible!

Talking about filters, I tried many, including this one above. They are 
so cumbersome and sometime do not recognize friend and foe correctly. 
And some spammers have even invented ways to by pass filters. I received 
a few dozens of those with a spam filter installed.



-- 
Adrian Hoe
m a i l b o x AT a d r i a n h o e . c o m

Re: Solid facts to promote Ada

[Adrian Hoe]

Steve wrote:

> 
> Except perhaps that the original Adrian clearly did not want the address
> posted the way you did.  Unfortunately there is no way of taking it back
> now.
> 
> If you think there is no reason to put spaces in a url, say so, don't and
> remove the spaces.  How RUDE!


It's ok, Steve. Preben did not know my original intention. It was my 
fault too. I did not clearly explain my intention with the spaces.
-- 
Adrian Hoe
m a i l b o x AT a d r i a n h o e . c o m

Re: Solid facts to promote Ada

[Adrian Hoe]

Preben Randhol wrote:

> On 2003-10-23, Steve <nospam_steved94@comcast.net> wrote:
> 
>>Except perhaps that the original Adrian clearly did not want the address
>>posted the way you did.  Unfortunately there is no way of taking it back
>>now.
> 
> 
> Then why ever post it at all? Why have a domain at all? There are plenty
> of robots crawling the web finding addresses. My logs show they are
> regularily visiting. However if this is a problem them you should really
> check your setup and tools to use.

At least we stop some spammers not using crawling robots.




>>If you think there is no reason to put spaces in a url, say so, don't and
>>remove the spaces.  How RUDE!
> 
> 
> The url wasn't correct.
> 
> Would be a nice future if one had to write any URL as a particualer
> domain owner would like it like http://w w w . a d r i a n X X X . c o
> m/  http://www.adapower+remove-this.com/ http://www.a d a w o r l
> d+nospam-thankyou.com/ etc..
> 
> But ok at least I will remove the link I had planned to the paper from
> my web page.
> 
> Preben



Come on guys. Cheer up. I do not intend to start a war but just want to 
share the paper. I feel bad seeing someone got flamed and someone trying 
to flame someone back and ..... :(
-- 
Adrian Hoe
m a i l b o x AT a d r i a n h o e . c o m

Re: [OT] Bounced Spam (was: Solid facts to promote Ada)

[Larry Kilgallen]

In article <3f98e8e7_2@news.tm.net.my>, Adrian Hoe <AdrianHoe@nowhere.com> writes:

> I received bounced emails which I never sent. Checking the IP of the 
> email origin, I concluded someone is trying to spam using my domain name 
> and possibly also my smtp.

You should ensure that your SMTP server issues a Reject message when
an attempt to deliver email is made and the only email addresses are
ones that do not exist on your server.

By doing that you ensure the error shows up for the individual who has
misconfigured _their_ SMTP server by not doing the same thing.

When all the SMTP servers run by honest individuals are configured to
_reject_ for undeliverable email (rather than "bounce") the errors go
only to the person sending the email -- in this case, the spammer.

Re: Solid facts to promote Ada

[Preben Randhol]

On 2003-10-24, Adrian Hoe <AdrianHoe@nowhere.com> wrote:

> I received bounced emails which I never sent. Checking the IP of the 
> email origin, I concluded someone is trying to spam using my domain name 
> and possibly also my smtp. That's horrible!

I also recieve bounced e-mail I never sent, but these are made from
viruses which forge the mails, not using the mail server. You should
check the setup so that your mail server is not relaying mails. There is
a page to test this: http://www.abuse.net/relay.html

Are you recieving spams to postmaster and root?

> Talking about filters, I tried many, including this one above. They are 
> so cumbersome and sometime do not recognize friend and foe correctly. 
> And some spammers have even invented ways to by pass filters. I received 
> a few dozens of those with a spam filter installed.

I get about 30-50 spams a day. I use ifile and it filters 98% correctly.
It also filters my mailinglists so it is quite good actually. bogofilter
and bmp are aslo good they say. For mail
servers there is: mailscanner

http://www.debianhelp.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=3178

I see you have turned of finger which is good.

But I see that you have made a mistake on your webpage. You have listed
an e-mail address there. This will be harvested by the spam robots when
they crawl the web (not usenet). I would advice you to do like I have
done: http://www.pvv.org/~randhol/Contact/

This way you only give your mail address when replying to those filling
out your form.

Regards,

Preben
-- 
"Saving keystrokes is the job of the text editor, not the programming
 language."

Re: Solid facts to promote Ada

[Preben Randhol]

On 2003-10-24, Adrian Hoe <AdrianHoe@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
> Come on guys. Cheer up. I do not intend to start a war but just want to 
> share the paper. I feel bad seeing someone got flamed and someone trying 
> to flame someone back and ..... :(

It wasn't my intention to flame anybody, but I will apologise for writing
your url. However, do not see that it should be a problem and if it is I
think there must be something with the setup of your server. As it goes:
Security through obscurity is poor security. I think the same goes in
this case. If we cannot use urls anymore then internet won't work :-)
But if you have problems please send me a mail (either remove + and the
rest until @ or reply from a post here (and it shoudl go through my
filter) and I can possibly help filtering out those spam mails.

Regards
Preben
-- 
"Saving keystrokes is the job of the text editor, not the programming
 language."

Re: Solid facts to promote Ada

[Stephane Richard]

[-- Warning: decoded text below may be mangled, UTF-8 assumed --]
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1914 bytes --]

I have to agree with Preben with this one.  How long have I been having my
website right in my signature here, and my server reports no volatile
attacks perhaps my settings are they way they should be in my case :-).

To get email spam and virus through email yes bots can starta  "email
generation loop" that will forcebly land on your email sooner or later, same
thing for websites ultimately.  but there's nothing any server or email can
do about those robots.  and showing your URL doesn't jeopardize your online
presence (website that is).  If it was the case, your website would be in
trouble just by submitting it to search engines (since the URL must be
correct with no spaces) for the search bots to do their jobs :-).

-- 
St�phane Richard
"Ada World" Webmaster
http://www.adaworld.com


"Preben Randhol" <randhol+valid_for_reply_from_news@pvv.org> wrote in
message
news:slrnbpi9tt.5es.randhol+valid_for_reply_from_news@kiuk0156.chembio.ntnu.no...
> On 2003-10-24, Adrian Hoe <AdrianHoe@nowhere.com> wrote:
> >
> > Come on guys. Cheer up. I do not intend to start a war but just want to
> > share the paper. I feel bad seeing someone got flamed and someone trying
> > to flame someone back and ..... :(
>
> It wasn't my intention to flame anybody, but I will apologise for writing
> your url. However, do not see that it should be a problem and if it is I
> think there must be something with the setup of your server. As it goes:
> Security through obscurity is poor security. I think the same goes in
> this case. If we cannot use urls anymore then internet won't work :-)
> But if you have problems please send me a mail (either remove + and the
> rest until @ or reply from a post here (and it shoudl go through my
> filter) and I can possibly help filtering out those spam mails.
>
> Regards
> Preben
> -- 
> "Saving keystrokes is the job of the text editor, not the programming
>  language."

Re: Solid facts to promote Ada

[Georg Bauhaus]

Preben Randhol <randhol+valid_for_reply_from_news@pvv.org> wrote:
 
: Use a filter.

To filter means to give in. I think one shouldn't.


Georg

Re: Solid facts to promote Ada

[Randy Brukardt]

"Adrian Hoe" <AdrianHoe@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:3f98e741_1@news.tm.net.my...
> Preben Randhol wrote:
> > On 2003-10-23, Adrian Hoe <AdrianHoe@nowhere.com> wrote:
> >
> >>Hi all,
> >>
> >>I've just made available my paper, "Software Development Reengineering -
> >>An Experience Report", on my web site "a d r i a n h o e . c o m" (sorry
> >>for the spaces, gotta avoid spammers :)
> >
> >
> > Actually, your web page is: http://www.adrianhoe.com/
>                                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> By giving the actual url like above, it opens up a big vulnerability for
> spammers. Today, spammers use a software so effectively to collect email
> addresses and urls (and email addresses from urls) automatically. That's
> why I put spaces in the url, hopefully, spam software is not intelligent
> enough to recognize it. :)

So you are saying you don't want anyone to link to this paper? If so, it's
close to useless. We need information like this on Adaic. But of course, to
be useful, it has to be pointed at by search engines like Google and of
course the Ada-wide search engine on Adaic. And those use the exact same
techniques that spammers do.

Mail servers that send useless bounce messages (such as the many that
happened for the SWEN virus) are part of the problem. If you don't have to
accept mail from everywhere, just block the problem IPs at the firewall or
router. I can't do that (Ada-Comment and the like should be open to
everyone), but there are filtering techniques that do work and hardly ever
catch good mail. (Otherwise, I would be off the internet; I'm getting 500
spam a day, and it increases 50 every month.)

BTW, who's running the unfiltered mailing list that's letting all the spam
get posted to this newsgroup? If it doesn't stop, I'm going to have to leave
this list, because it is ridiculous that so much dangerous junk is showing
up here. I filter to prevent this kind of crap from getting to my desktops,
and it's extremely annoying to have it get sent in via the newsreader.
Either shut down the list or put a good spam filter on it!!

                     Randy.

Re: Solid facts to promote Ada

[Wes Groleau]

Preben Randhol wrote:
> But I see that you have made a mistake on your webpage. You have listed
> an e-mail address there. This will be harvested by the spam robots when
> they crawl the web (not usenet). I would advice you to do like I have
> done: http://www.pvv.org/~randhol/Contact/

For another method, view HTML source here:

http://freepages.rootsweb.com/~wgroleau/

Most harvesters don't execute Javascript.

Unfortunately, it keeps out people who have
turned off Javascript.  But a noscript section
could provide them with an alternative.

-- 
Wes Groleau

A pessimist says the glass is half empty.

An optimist says the glass is half full.

An engineer says somebody made the glass
        twice as big as it needed to be.

Re: Solid facts to promote Ada

[Adrian Hoe]

Randy Brukardt wrote:
> "Adrian Hoe" <AdrianHoe@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> news:3f98e741_1@news.tm.net.my...
> 
>>Preben Randhol wrote:
>>
>>>On 2003-10-23, Adrian Hoe <AdrianHoe@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Hi all,
>>>>
>>>>I've just made available my paper, "Software Development Reengineering -
>>>>An Experience Report", on my web site "a d r i a n h o e . c o m" (sorry
>>>>for the spaces, gotta avoid spammers :)
>>>
>>>
>>>Actually, your web page is: http://www.adrianhoe.com/
>>
>>                               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>By giving the actual url like above, it opens up a big vulnerability for
>>spammers. Today, spammers use a software so effectively to collect email
>>addresses and urls (and email addresses from urls) automatically. That's
>>why I put spaces in the url, hopefully, spam software is not intelligent
>>enough to recognize it. :)
> 
> 
> So you are saying you don't want anyone to link to this paper? If so, it's
> close to useless. We need information like this on Adaic. But of course, to
> be useful, it has to be pointed at by search engines like Google and of
> course the Ada-wide search engine on Adaic. And those use the exact same
> techniques that spammers do.

No, that wasn't my intention. I have been monitoring my website log and 
I sought some help from some Internet experts and managed to identify 
the crawling robots' origins.

Those who use crawling robots to collect email addresses are real pro 
and they only sell email addresses. Most of them do not spam.

There is another group of spammers who use low-tech method to collect 
email addresses, subscribing to usenet. They receive the digest and feed 
it to their software to extract email addresses.

My low-tech (and stupid) method is to hopefully reduce the chances in 
the usenet.





> Mail servers that send useless bounce messages (such as the many that
> happened for the SWEN virus) are part of the problem. If you don't have to
> accept mail from everywhere, just block the problem IPs at the firewall or
> router. I can't do that (Ada-Comment and the like should be open to
> everyone), but there are filtering techniques that do work and hardly ever
> catch good mail. (Otherwise, I would be off the internet; I'm getting 500
> spam a day, and it increases 50 every month.)
> 
> BTW, who's running the unfiltered mailing list that's letting all the spam
> get posted to this newsgroup? If it doesn't stop, I'm going to have to leave
> this list, because it is ridiculous that so much dangerous junk is showing
> up here. I filter to prevent this kind of crap from getting to my desktops,
> and it's extremely annoying to have it get sent in via the newsreader.
> Either shut down the list or put a good spam filter on it!!

I've noticed some spam on this list too.


-- 
Adrian Hoe
m a i l b o x AT a d r i a n h o e . c o m

Re: Solid facts to promote Ada

[Adrian Hoe]

Stephane Richard wrote:

> I have to agree with Preben with this one.  How long have I been having my
> website right in my signature here, and my server reports no volatile
> attacks perhaps my settings are they way they should be in my case :-).



Soon, you will get some. Just the matter of time.



> To get email spam and virus through email yes bots can starta  "email
> generation loop" that will forcebly land on your email sooner or later, same
> thing for websites ultimately.  but there's nothing any server or email can
> do about those robots.  and showing your URL doesn't jeopardize your online
> presence (website that is).  If it was the case, your website would be in
> trouble just by submitting it to search engines (since the URL must be
> correct with no spaces) for the search bots to do their jobs :-).

That's another problem which we can do nothing about.



-- 
Adrian Hoe
m a i l b o x AT a d r i a n h o e . c o m

Re: Solid facts to promote Ada

[Adrian Hoe]

Wes Groleau wrote:

> Preben Randhol wrote:
> 
>> But I see that you have made a mistake on your webpage. You have listed
>> an e-mail address there. This will be harvested by the spam robots when
>> they crawl the web (not usenet). I would advice you to do like I have
>> done: http://www.pvv.org/~randhol/Contact/
> 
> 
> For another method, view HTML source here:
> 
> http://freepages.rootsweb.com/~wgroleau/
> 
> Most harvesters don't execute Javascript.
> 
> Unfortunately, it keeps out people who have
> turned off Javascript.  But a noscript section
> could provide them with an alternative.
> 


Thanks for all of your valuable advice. I will fortify my defense soon. 
Right now, I have some more important job to attend to. One of it is to 
prepare course material for a Basic Ada Hands-on Workshop in a 
university in Malaysia which I gave a seminar 10 days ago.

Anyone who has a basic Ada course material to share? I will create 
another thread in c.l.a. Please contact me at my email address below. 
Please remove the spaces and replce "AT" with @. :)
-- 
Adrian Hoe
m a i l b o x AT a d r i a n h o e . c o m

Re: Solid facts to promote Ada

[Preben Randhol]

On 2003-10-24, Georg Bauhaus <sb463ba@l1-hrz.uni-duisburg.de> wrote:
> Preben Randhol <randhol+valid_for_reply_from_news@pvv.org> wrote:
>  
>: Use a filter.
>
> To filter means to give in. I think one shouldn't.

To give in in what way? I don't understand. I use a fliter which sorts
all mail and put them into the appropriat folder. But if you like to
look through 100 mails in *one* folder  where 40% is spam, please do.


-- 
"Saving keystrokes is the job of the text editor, not the programming
 language."

Re: Solid facts to promote Ada

[Preben Randhol]

On 2003-10-24, Randy Brukardt <randy@rrsoftware.com> wrote:
> BTW, who's running the unfiltered mailing list that's letting all the spam
> get posted to this newsgroup? If it doesn't stop, I'm going to have to leave
> this list, because it is ridiculous that so much dangerous junk is showing
> up here.

I haven't noticed so much spam here. I think the level of spam is the
same of other newsgroups I read. Are you subscribing through a
mailinglist to cla or reading it directly?

-- 
"Saving keystrokes is the job of the text editor, not the programming
 language."

Re: Solid facts to promote Ada

[chris]

Once they have your email address, they have it.

I hope the US congress get's tough and changes the "opt out" policy to 
"opt in".  Then we can go rattle some US spammers heads!  Though that 
might just make them move to pastuers (sp?) new.

Re: Solid facts to promote Ada

[Georg Bauhaus]

Preben Randhol <randhol+valid_for_reply_from_news@pvv.org> wrote:
: On 2003-10-24, Georg Bauhaus <sb463ba@l1-hrz.uni-duisburg.de> wrote:
:> Preben Randhol <randhol+valid_for_reply_from_news@pvv.org> wrote:
:>  
:>: Use a filter.
:>
:> To filter means to give in. I think one shouldn't.
: 
:  I use a fliter which sorts
           ^^^^^^       ^^^^^

I had thought that to filter means to retain only the pieces
that are of interest and to throw the others away, not to sort
them into different buckets?

Georg

Re: Solid facts to promote Ada

[Preben Randhol]

On 2003-10-25, Georg Bauhaus <sb463ba@l1-hrz.uni-duisburg.de> wrote:
> I had thought that to filter means to retain only the pieces
> that are of interest and to throw the others away, not to sort
> them into different buckets?

Due to the possibility of false negatives I do not throw away the spam.
It goes into a folder so I can look over the subject lines from time to
time to see that all is spam and then I simply delete all mails in that
folder.

-- 
"Saving keystrokes is the job of the text editor, not the programming
 language."

Re: Solid facts to promote Ada

[Wes Groleau]

chris wrote:
> I hope the US congress get's tough and changes the "opt out" policy to 
> "opt in".  Then we can go rattle some US spammers heads!  Though that 
> might just make them move to pastuers (sp?) new.

The Senate bill is stupid.  They must give you
a working way to opt out?  Ha!!  So they use
that method to collect addresses which they
sell to the next spammer.  Just like they are
doing now.

-- 
Wes Groleau
    ------
    "The reason most women would rather have beauty than brains is
     they know that most men can see better than they can think."
                                -- James Dobson

Re: Solid facts to promote Ada

[Adrian Hoe]

Preben Randhol wrote:
> On 2003-10-24, Randy Brukardt <randy@rrsoftware.com> wrote:
> 
>>BTW, who's running the unfiltered mailing list that's letting all the spam
>>get posted to this newsgroup? If it doesn't stop, I'm going to have to leave
>>this list, because it is ridiculous that so much dangerous junk is showing
>>up here.
> 
> 
> I haven't noticed so much spam here. I think the level of spam is the
> same of other newsgroups I read. Are you subscribing through a
> mailinglist to cla or reading it directly?
> 

I'm using Mozilla Thunderbird mail and news client for reading.
-- 
Adrian Hoe
m a i l b o x AT a d r i a n h o e . c o m

Re: Solid facts to promote Ada

[chris]

Wes Groleau wrote:
> 
> The Senate bill is stupid.  They must give you
> a working way to opt out?  Ha!!  So they use
> that method to collect addresses which they
> sell to the next spammer.  Just like they are
> doing now.

Exactly.  That's why it should be changed to opt in, like here in 
Europe!!!  So they can take these people to task!  I don't believe the 
US "opt out" list will do anything (it's a list of email addresses 
similar to the new "don't phone" list).  Heck!!!  Even the FTC chairman 
thinks it's a waste of time...

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/33556.html

Re: Solid facts to promote Ada

[Randy Brukardt]

"Preben Randhol" <randhol+valid_for_reply_from_news@pvv.org> wrote in
message
news:slrnbpkadh.r4.randhol+valid_for_reply_from_news@kiuk0156.chembio.ntnu.n
o...
> I haven't noticed so much spam here. I think the level of spam is the
> same of other newsgroups I read. Are you subscribing through a
> mailinglist to cla or reading it directly?

Reading it directly. If I went through a mailing list, my spam filter would
get the junk. But I don't seem to stay on a mailing list for long - dunno
why.

             Randy.

Re: Solid facts to promote Ada

[Russ]

Adrian Hoe <AdrianHoe@nowhere.com> wrote in message news:<3f98e741_1@news.tm.net.my>...
> Preben Randhol wrote:
> > On 2003-10-23, Adrian Hoe <AdrianHoe@nowhere.com> wrote:
> > 
> >>Hi all,
> >>
> >>I've just made available my paper, "Software Development Reengineering - 
> >>An Experience Report", on my web site "a d r i a n h o e . c o m" (sorry 
> >>for the spaces, gotta avoid spammers :)
> > 
> > 
> > Actually, your web page is: http://www.adrianhoe.com/
>                                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> By giving the actual url like above, it opens up a big vulnerability for 
> spammers. Today, spammers use a software so effectively to collect email 
> addresses and urls (and email addresses from urls) automatically. That's 
> why I put spaces in the url, hopefully, spam software is not intelligent 
> enough to recognize it. :)

Well, Preben might be glad to know that I agree with him on this one
(hope that doesn't induce him to change his mind!). If you have a URL
with information you want to disseminate, then you want to broadcast
that URL as widely as possible, and you want to post it correctly so
the reader can simply click on it.

But you also want to keep your correct email addresses off the webpage
so they cannot be harvested by a robot. *That's* where you use
bot-proofing tricks. Another option is to use sneakemail addresses
(http://sneakemail.com). These are randomly generated addresses that
forward to your real email address. If you start getting too much spam
at the random address, you simply dispose of it and get a new one.

Russ
http://RussP.org

Re: Solid facts to promote Ada

[Simon Wright]

"Randy Brukardt" <randy@rrsoftware.com> writes:

> "Preben Randhol" <randhol+valid_for_reply_from_news@pvv.org> wrote in
> message
> news:slrnbpkadh.r4.randhol+valid_for_reply_from_news@kiuk0156.chembio.ntnu.n
> o...
> > I haven't noticed so much spam here. I think the level of spam is the
> > same of other newsgroups I read. Are you subscribing through a
> > mailinglist to cla or reading it directly?
> 
> Reading it directly. If I went through a mailing list, my spam
> filter would get the junk. But I don't seem to stay on a mailing
> list for long - dunno why.

I'm reading using Gnus via Demon Internet (UK ISP) - very little spam
here.

-- 
Simon Wright                               100% Ada, no bugs.

Re: Solid facts to promote Ada

[Adrian Hoe]

chris wrote:
> Wes Groleau wrote:
> 
>>
>> The Senate bill is stupid.  They must give you
>> a working way to opt out?  Ha!!  So they use
>> that method to collect addresses which they
>> sell to the next spammer.  Just like they are
>> doing now.
> 
> 
> Exactly.  That's why it should be changed to opt in, like here in 
> Europe!!!  So they can take these people to task!  I don't believe the 
> US "opt out" list will do anything (it's a list of email addresses 
> similar to the new "don't phone" list).  Heck!!!  Even the FTC chairman 
> thinks it's a waste of time...
> 
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/33556.html
> 
> 

Agree. The governments should give spammers hard time.
-- 
Adrian Hoe
m a i l b o x AT a d r i a n h o e . c o m

Re: Solid facts to promote Ada

[Frank J. Lhota]

"Adrian Hoe" <AdrianHoe@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:3f9bddfc$1_1@news.tm.net.my...
> chris wrote:
> Agree. The governments should give spammers hard time.

None of us are in favor of the spammers, but keep in mind that the wrong
cure can be worse than the desease.