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From: "James Giles" <jamesgiles@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Ada vs Fortran for scientific applications
Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2006 23:07:22 GMT
Date: 2006-07-09T23:07:22+00:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <K_fsg.112097$mF2.87540@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: AsydnUgcj8WrHizZnZ2dnUVZ8qKdnZ2d@bt.com

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Martin Dowie wrote:
> James Giles wrote:
...
>> In most Ada implementations, as for most other languages, all
>> the bit patterns in the representation of an INTEGER data type
>> are valid integer values.
>
> That's not entirely true, the standard states Integer must include the
> range �2**15+1 .. +2**15�1 - thus (usually) leaving -2**15 as a
> possible 'default uninitialized' value.

Well I allowed for that possibility.  I made no absolute
assertion.  I said "most Ada implementations".  In fact,
most language definitions *allow* implementations
to implement integers with a lot of flexibility.  Most
actual implementations use all the bit patterns their
underlying hardware allows and *don't* use any of
them for NOI (Not An Integer).  And, let's not forget
character data types (does your actual implementation
have a value that means NOC - Not A Character?).
What about booleans?  Ada also has fixed point types,
enumerations, records, etc.  Does your actual implementation
catch uses of undefined variables for all those?  Indeed,
does it even use NANs from the floating point hardware to
detect uninitialized REALs?

It's true: nearly all languages permit implementations
to internally represent data with additional memory
for the purpose of detecting and reporting uses of
undefined variables (and for other reasons - like the
value of a variable that was defined, but the expression
involved an unhandled exception).  In formal semantics,
the idea is called a lifted domain.  Applying it in software
is expensive at run-time.

Now, I've always liked the idea of using the anomalous
value in two's complement integers (sign bit set, all others
clear) as NOI.  I don't think it's a likely implementation
strategy unless it was treated that way in hardware.

-- 
J. Giles

"I conclude that there are two ways of constructing a software
design: One way is to make it so simple that there are obviously
no deficiencies and the other way is to make it so complicated
that there are no obvious deficiencies."   --  C. A. R. Hoare





  reply	other threads:[~2006-07-09 23:07 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 314+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2006-05-22  4:54 Ada vs Fortran for scientific applications Nasser Abbasi
2006-05-22  6:45 ` Brooks Moses
2006-05-22  7:41   ` Jan Vorbrüggen
2006-05-22 18:49     ` Brooks Moses
2006-05-23  5:51       ` Tim Prince
2006-05-23  8:56       ` Jan Vorbrüggen
2006-05-23 13:28         ` Greg Lindahl
2006-05-24  8:10           ` Jan Vorbrüggen
2006-05-24 15:19             ` Richard E Maine
2006-05-29 12:55               ` Jan Vorbrüggen
2006-05-24 15:24             ` Dick Hendrickson
2006-05-24 19:03               ` glen herrmannsfeldt
2006-05-29 12:56                 ` Jan Vorbrüggen
2006-05-29 20:07                   ` glen herrmannsfeldt
2006-05-30  4:55                   ` robert.corbett
2006-05-30  7:05                     ` Jan Vorbrüggen
2006-05-22 11:48   ` Michael Metcalf
2006-05-22 12:01     ` Dr. Adrian Wrigley
2006-05-23  8:34   ` Jon Harrop
2006-05-22  7:34 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2006-05-23  8:32   ` Jon Harrop
2006-05-22  7:36 ` Greg Lindahl
2006-05-22 21:25   ` Ken Plotkin
2006-05-22 21:40     ` blmblm
2006-05-23  2:12       ` Ken Plotkin
2006-05-23 15:32     ` Pascal Obry
2006-05-23 17:33       ` Marc A. Criley
2006-05-22 10:34 ` Tim Prince
2006-05-22 12:52 ` George N. White III
2006-05-22 13:02 ` Jean-Pierre Rosen
2006-05-22 15:23   ` Dan Nagle
2006-05-22 16:20     ` Nasser Abbasi
2006-05-22 16:38       ` Jan Vorbrüggen
2006-05-22 16:41       ` Gordon Sande
2006-05-22 16:48       ` Dan Nagle
2006-05-23  2:12         ` news.hinet.net
2006-05-22 17:22       ` Paul Van Delst
2006-05-23  7:04         ` Gareth Owen
2006-05-23  7:02           ` Martin Krischik
2006-05-23 14:23           ` Rich Townsend
2006-05-23 17:24             ` Brooks Moses
2006-05-23 18:40               ` Rich Townsend
2006-05-23 21:17                 ` Martin Dowie
2006-05-24  2:21                   ` Nasser Abbasi
2006-05-26 15:18                     ` Martin Dowie
2006-05-25 19:43                 ` Janne Blomqvist
2006-05-24  5:26       ` robin
2006-05-24  6:06         ` GF Thomas
2006-05-22 16:38     ` Richard E Maine
2006-05-23  8:25     ` Jean-Pierre Rosen
2006-05-23 11:40       ` Dan Nagle
2006-05-23 13:14         ` Dr. Adrian Wrigley
2006-05-23 17:07           ` Dan Nagle
2006-05-23 22:20             ` Dr. Adrian Wrigley
2006-05-23 22:49               ` Dan Nagle
2006-05-23 23:21                 ` Dr. Adrian Wrigley
2006-05-24  0:49                   ` Dan Nagle
2006-05-24  5:07                     ` GF Thomas
2006-05-24 12:56               ` J.F. Cornwall
2006-05-24 13:39                 ` Dr. Adrian Wrigley
2006-05-24 16:49                   ` J.F. Cornwall
2006-05-24 18:08                     ` Dr. Adrian Wrigley
2006-05-24  5:26         ` robin
2006-05-27  5:18         ` Aldebaran
2006-05-23 17:09       ` Dick Hendrickson
2006-05-23 17:53         ` Georg Bauhaus
2006-05-23 18:21         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2006-05-23 18:34           ` Brooks Moses
2006-05-24  7:15             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2006-05-23 20:33           ` Dick Hendrickson
2006-05-24  7:52         ` Jean-Pierre Rosen
2006-05-24 14:50         ` robin
2006-05-24 15:19           ` Dick Hendrickson
2006-05-24 15:43             ` Dr. Adrian Wrigley
2006-05-24 17:12               ` Dick Hendrickson
2006-05-24 17:32                 ` Richard E Maine
2006-05-24 17:54                 ` Dr. Adrian Wrigley
2006-05-24 18:10                   ` Richard E Maine
2006-05-24 18:39                     ` Nasser Abbasi
2006-05-24 19:36                       ` Gautier
2006-05-24 19:37                       ` Gautier
2006-05-24 19:56                         ` Richard E Maine
2006-05-30 19:39                           ` Craig Powers
2006-05-26  2:58                         ` robin
2006-05-24 18:34                   ` Gordon Sande
2006-05-24 18:40                     ` Ed Falis
2006-05-25 22:31                       ` Brooks Moses
2006-05-24 18:43                     ` Ed Falis
2006-05-24 18:59                       ` J.F. Cornwall
2006-05-24 19:10                       ` Gordon Sande
2006-05-25  3:40                       ` robin
2006-05-25 15:19                         ` Martin Krischik
2006-05-27 14:29                           ` robin
2006-05-27 13:22                             ` Georg Bauhaus
2006-05-29 11:46                             ` Jan Vorbrüggen
2006-05-29 17:37                             ` Martin Krischik
2006-05-24 21:04                   ` Dick Hendrickson
2006-05-31  4:26                     ` robert.corbett
2006-05-25  3:40                   ` robin
2006-05-24 16:03             ` Richard E Maine
2006-05-24 19:08               ` glen herrmannsfeldt
2006-05-25  3:40             ` robin
2006-05-25  5:04               ` Nasser Abbasi
2006-05-25  6:04                 ` Richard Maine
2006-05-25 10:42                   ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
2006-05-25 15:09                     ` Richard E Maine
2006-05-25 19:39                       ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
2006-05-25 12:09                   ` Dr. Adrian Wrigley
2006-05-25 12:42                     ` Dan Nagle
2006-05-25 12:45                     ` Gordon Sande
2006-05-25 16:23                       ` Checking for Undefined [was Re: Ada vs Fortran for scientific applications] Bob Lidral
2006-05-25 17:48                         ` Nasser Abbasi
2006-05-25 17:57                         ` Gordon Sande
2006-05-25 20:20                           ` Bob Lidral
2006-05-27 14:29                             ` Checking for Undefined robin
2006-05-25 20:35                           ` Checking for Undefined [was Re: Ada vs Fortran for scientific applications] glen herrmannsfeldt
2006-05-25 22:02                           ` Checking for Undefined Simon Wright
2006-05-27 14:29                           ` robin
2006-05-27 15:10                             ` Gordon Sande
2006-05-26  2:58                       ` Ada vs Fortran for scientific applications robin
2006-07-09 20:52                       ` adaworks
2006-07-09 21:33                         ` Brooks Moses
2006-07-10  3:08                           ` jimmaureenrogers
2006-07-10 11:23                           ` Björn Persson
2006-07-10 17:08                             ` Brooks Moses
2006-07-09 21:36                         ` James Giles
2006-07-09 22:29                           ` Martin Dowie
2006-07-09 23:07                             ` James Giles [this message]
2006-07-09 23:44                               ` glen herrmannsfeldt
2006-07-11  1:29                               ` robin
2006-07-09 23:19                           ` glen herrmannsfeldt
2006-07-11  1:29                             ` robin
2006-07-11  5:56                               ` glen herrmannsfeldt
2006-07-12  0:37                                 ` robin
2006-07-12  1:15                                   ` glen herrmannsfeldt
2006-07-14  2:47                                     ` Randy Brukardt
2006-07-14  2:56                                       ` glen herrmannsfeldt
2006-07-18  1:48                                     ` robin
2006-07-18 18:35                                       ` glen herrmannsfeldt
2006-07-19 14:35                                         ` BINARY INTEGER robin
2006-07-10  7:38                           ` Ada vs Fortran for scientific applications Dmitry A. Kazakov
2006-07-10 16:41                             ` adaworks
2006-07-10 18:12                               ` John W. Kennedy
2006-07-11  1:29                                 ` robin
2006-07-11  2:49                                   ` John W. Kennedy
2006-07-12  0:37                                     ` robin
2006-07-11  1:29                             ` robin
2006-07-11  6:46                               ` adaworks
2006-07-11  7:30                                 ` James Giles
2006-07-11 20:46                                   ` Simon Wright
2006-07-11 11:44                                 ` Jeffrey Creem
2006-07-11 14:51                                   ` adaworks
2006-07-12  1:29                                     ` Jeffrey Creem
2006-07-11 13:53                                 ` Tom Linden
2006-07-11 15:02                                   ` adaworks
2006-07-11 15:35                                     ` Tom Linden
2006-07-11 16:54                                       ` Alex R. Mosteo
2006-07-11 17:43                                       ` adaworks
2006-07-11 18:15                                         ` Ed Falis
2006-07-11 14:46                                 ` John W. Kennedy
2006-07-11 14:45                                   ` Tom Linden
2006-07-11 17:06                                     ` John W. Kennedy
2006-07-11 15:16                                   ` glen herrmannsfeldt
2006-07-11 15:55                                     ` Richard E Maine
2006-07-11 16:21                                       ` Ed Falis
2006-07-11 16:28                                         ` Richard E Maine
2006-07-12  3:33                                       ` James Dennett
2006-07-11 17:08                                   ` Jean-Pierre Rosen
2006-07-11 22:44                                     ` glen herrmannsfeldt
2006-07-12  9:50                                       ` Jean-Pierre Rosen
2006-07-14  7:00                                         ` glen herrmannsfeldt
2006-07-12  3:35                                     ` James Dennett
2006-07-12  0:37                                   ` robin
2006-07-10  9:57                           ` Georg Bauhaus
2006-07-11 15:14                         ` robin
2006-07-11 17:21                           ` adaworks
2006-07-11 19:50                             ` John W. Kennedy
2006-11-20  9:39                         ` robin
2006-11-21  9:02                           ` Finalization Philippe Tarroux
2006-11-21  9:22                             ` Finalization Dmitry A. Kazakov
2006-11-21 10:32                               ` Finalization Philippe Tarroux
2006-11-21 11:09                                 ` Finalization Dmitry A. Kazakov
2006-11-21 17:29                                   ` Finalization Adam Beneschan
2006-11-21 18:39                                     ` Finalization Dmitry A. Kazakov
2006-11-21 17:22                                 ` Finalization Adam Beneschan
2006-11-21 11:26                             ` Finalization Georg Bauhaus
2006-05-25 16:25                     ` Bounds Check Overhead [was: Re: Ada vs Fortran for scientific applications] Bob Lidral
2006-05-25 22:08                       ` Bounds Check Overhead Simon Wright
2006-05-25 22:27                         ` Brooks Moses
2006-05-25 22:43                           ` Richard E Maine
2006-05-26 10:16                           ` Ludovic Brenta
2006-05-26 10:59                             ` Dan Nagle
2006-05-26 14:44                               ` Dick Hendrickson
2006-05-26 14:52                                 ` Rich Townsend
2006-05-26 16:44                                   ` Ludovic Brenta
2006-05-26 17:49                                     ` Gordon Sande
2006-05-27  9:06                                       ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2006-05-27 14:44                                         ` Richard Maine
2006-05-29 12:02                                         ` Jan Vorbrüggen
2006-05-26 20:31                                     ` glen herrmannsfeldt
2006-05-27 14:29                                     ` robin
2006-05-26 14:59                                 ` gary.l.scott
2006-05-26 15:10                                   ` Dick Hendrickson
2006-05-26 18:41                                     ` gary.l.scott
2006-05-26 18:56                                       ` Dan Nagle
2006-05-26 19:16                                         ` Richard Maine
2006-05-27 14:29                               ` robin
2006-05-26 16:18                             ` Richard Maine
2006-05-26 17:30                               ` Nasser Abbasi
2006-05-26 18:24                                 ` Richard Maine
2006-05-26 19:23                                   ` Paul Van Delst
2006-05-26 19:25                                   ` Nasser Abbasi
2006-05-26 19:46                                     ` Richard Maine
2006-05-30 19:13                                       ` Robert A Duff
2006-06-04 23:48                                         ` Richard Maine
2006-05-26 18:26                                 ` Rich Townsend
2006-05-26 19:58                                   ` Simon Wright
2006-05-26 20:06                                     ` Rich Townsend
2006-05-26 20:16                                       ` Richard Edgar
2006-05-26 20:28                                       ` Richard Maine
2006-05-30 19:20                                         ` Robert A Duff
2006-06-05 13:50                                           ` Richard Edgar
2006-05-26 20:27                               ` glen herrmannsfeldt
2006-05-26 20:41                                 ` Richard Maine
2006-05-27 14:29                         ` robin
2006-05-27 14:56                           ` Ludovic Brenta
2006-05-27 15:53                             ` jimmaureenrogers
2006-05-27 15:59                             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2006-05-27 17:52                               ` Tom LINDEN
2006-05-28  6:28                                 ` Dave Weatherall
2006-05-26  2:58                     ` Ada vs Fortran for scientific applications robin
2006-05-29 12:21                     ` Jan Vorbrüggen
2006-05-29 13:47                       ` Dr. Adrian Wrigley
2006-05-29 14:17                         ` Jan Vorbrüggen
2006-05-29 14:52                           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2006-05-29 15:08                             ` Jan Vorbrüggen
2006-05-29 17:03                               ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2006-05-30  7:11                                 ` Jan Vorbrüggen
2006-05-30  8:29                                   ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2006-05-31 14:58                                     ` robin
2006-05-31 14:58                                 ` robin
2006-05-31 15:42                                   ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2006-05-31 15:54                                     ` Gordon Sande
2006-05-31 14:58                             ` robin
2006-05-31 18:07                               ` Marc A. Criley
2006-05-29 15:47                           ` Dr. Adrian Wrigley
     [not found]                   ` <pan.2006.05.25.12.11.52.919554@linuxchip.demon.co.uk.u <2006052514574816807-gsande@worldnetattnet>
2006-05-25 18:30                     ` Checking for Undefined [was Re: Ada vs Fortran for scientific applications] Thomas Koenig
2006-05-25 18:34                       ` Gordon Sande
2006-05-26  2:58                   ` Ada vs Fortran for scientific applications robin
     [not found]                   ` <pan.2006.05.25.12.11.52.919554@linuxchip.demon.co.uk.u <m2r72h69vz.fsf@grendel.local>
2006-05-26  7:54                     ` Checking for Undefined Dirk Craeynest
2006-05-26 15:04                       ` Dick Hendrickson
2006-05-27 14:29                         ` robin
2006-05-27 15:08                           ` Gordon Sande
2006-05-28  0:56                             ` robin
2006-05-28  1:04                               ` glen herrmannsfeldt
2006-05-28 13:46                               ` Gordon Sande
     [not found]                   ` <pan.2006.05.25.12.11.52.919554@linuxchip.demon.co.uk.u <e574mu$rrj$1@scrotar.nss.udel.edu>
2006-05-26 18:53                     ` Bounds Check Overhead Thomas Koenig
2006-05-26 19:07                       ` Richard Maine
     [not found]                   ` <pan.2006.05.25.12.11.52.919554@linuxchip <20060712.7A4E6E0.D028@mojaveg.lsan.sisna.com>
     [not found]                     ` <20060712.7A4E6E0.D028@mojaveg.lsan.sisna.com>
2006-07-14  6:08                       ` Ada vs Fortran for scientific applications Bob Lidral
2006-07-14  6:17                         ` Richard Maine
2006-07-17 12:44                           ` ONES COMPLEMENT (was: Ada vs Fortran for scientific applications) robin
     [not found]                   ` <20060712.7A4E6E0.D028@mojaveg.lsan.sisna <20060714.7A4E988.A30D@mojaveg.lsan.sisna.com>
     [not found]                     ` <20060714.7A4E988.A30D@mojaveg.lsan.sisna.com>
2006-07-16  9:07                       ` Ada vs Fortran for scientific applications glen herrmannsfeldt
2006-07-18  1:48                         ` ONES COMPLEMENT (was: Ada vs Fortran for scientific applications) robin
2006-07-18 18:41                           ` ONES COMPLEMENT glen herrmannsfeldt
2006-07-19 13:41                             ` robin
2006-07-22  0:09                             ` Richard Steiner
     [not found]                   ` <20060712.7A4E6E0.D028@mojaveg.lsan.sisna <20060717.7A4ADD0.10B1A@mojaveg.lsan.sisna.com>
2006-07-18 13:05                     ` ONES COMPLEMENT (was: Ada vs Fortran for scientific applications) Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
2006-07-19 11:18                       ` ONES COMPLEMENT Peter Flass
2006-07-19 17:14                         ` glen herrmannsfeldt
2006-07-19 23:43                           ` robin
2006-07-19 13:41                       ` robin
2006-07-19 17:11                       ` ONES COMPLEMENT (was: Ada vs Fortran for scientific applications) Everett M. Greene
2006-07-19 19:40                         ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
2006-07-20 16:46                           ` Everett M. Greene
2006-07-20 21:47                             ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
2006-07-21 17:23                               ` ONES COMPLEMENT glen herrmannsfeldt
2006-07-21 18:04                                 ` John W. Kennedy
2006-07-23  0:26                                   ` robin
2006-07-23  0:26                                 ` robin
2006-07-21 20:05                               ` glen herrmannsfeldt
2006-07-21 21:00                                 ` Dick Hendrickson
2006-07-22  6:19                                   ` glen herrmannsfeldt
2006-07-22 15:12                               ` ONES COMPLEMENT (was: Ada vs Fortran for scientific applications) Everett M. Greene
2006-07-23  0:26                               ` ONES COMPLEMENT robin
     [not found]                     ` <20060717.7A4ADD0.10B1A@mojaveg.lsan.sisna.com>
2006-07-19  6:54                       ` glen herrmannsfeldt
2006-07-19 12:47                         ` Tom Linden
2006-07-19 14:35                         ` robin
2006-05-25 11:02               ` Ada vs Fortran for scientific applications Dan Nagle
2006-05-25 11:23                 ` Gareth Owen
2006-05-26  2:58                   ` robin
2006-05-26  7:13                     ` Gareth Owen
2006-05-26 14:53                     ` Dick Hendrickson
2006-05-26 20:18                       ` glen herrmannsfeldt
2006-05-26 21:50                         ` Björn Persson
2006-05-25 14:33                 ` glen herrmannsfeldt
2006-05-26  2:58                 ` robin
2006-05-26 20:03                 ` JA
2006-05-25 11:32             ` Martin Krischik
2006-05-24  6:46       ` Jan Vorbrüggen
2006-05-24  5:26   ` robin
2006-05-23  8:34 ` gautier_niouzes
2006-05-23 13:33 ` Nasser Abbasi
2006-05-23 14:00   ` Michael Metcalf
2006-05-23 15:04   ` beliavsky
2006-05-23 18:09     ` glen herrmannsfeldt
2006-05-23 22:38     ` Jeffrey Creem
2006-05-23 19:29   ` Gautier
2006-05-23 19:34     ` Rich Townsend
2006-05-23 17:57 ` Aldebaran
2006-05-23 22:14   ` Dr Ivan D. Reid
2006-05-23 23:01 ` John
2006-05-27  5:01 ` Nasser Abbasi
2006-05-27  7:36   ` Pascal Obry
2006-05-27 11:18   ` Björn Persson
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