Re: Java is not the right language

Re: Java is not the right language

[Mike Stark]

Bert THOMPSON wrote:
> 
> ben@documenta.com.au (Benjamin Hardy) writes:
> 
> |Alexander Anderson <sandy@almide.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> |>
> |>    Still, I would prefer Ada to C++ any day.
> 
> |How is this discussion of Ada relevant?
> |Has somebody written an Ada bytecode compiler or something?

As a matter of fact, somebody has.  Intermetrics has a beta version
of AppletMagic that can be downloaded from the WWW which does
precisely that.  I have been playing with it and have been impressed.
In principle, you should be able to extend Ada tagged types with
Java classes and vice versa.  In practice, the documentation with
the beta is much more helpful in developing Ada programs using the 
Java APIs than in integrating Ada code into Java applications or
applets.  At this point, we have successfully integrated an Ada
package and made it callable by Java, but we haven't quite got the
hang of how to extend Ada types into Java classes (but I think I'm
close ;).  

The real news, however, is that the product seems to be very solid.
The only problems I've had have been due to the beta not imple-
menting a feature, or incomplete (beta-ish) documentation.  The
system itself works well and provides good diagnostic messages when
you have a source code error.
> 
> |It reminds me of this old humorous article about programming languages
> |and the programmers that stereotypically would use them.
> 
> |It said something like "Ada programmers are neurotic people who carefully
> |line up sharp pencils on an otherwise clear desk", or something to that
> |effect. Not too bad. I won't repeat what it said about COBOL... :-)
> 
> Ha ha. Very droll.
> 
> <<stuff defending Ada for large projects deleted>>
Bert -- where's your sense of humor,man!!??  I think the joke gets at
the larger truth that when someone is developing systems that will
land airliners you *want* that neurotic (I prefer the term "attention
 to detail", myself) attitude.  It helps the number of takeoffs equal
the number of landings, always a desirable characteristic!

Mike (an Ada user who can take a joke)
> 
> Bert

Re: Java is not the right language

[Ken Garlington]

Mike Stark wrote:
> 
> Bert -- where's your sense of humor,man!!??  I think the joke gets at
> the larger truth that when someone is developing systems that will
> land airliners you *want* that neurotic (I prefer the term "attention
>  to detail", myself) attitude.

As someone who develops systems that control aircraft landings (and 
take-offs, and taxi runs, and flight in general), I strongly object to 
the term "neurotic" when applied to the care and precision asssociated 
with the software development process. I prefer the term "full bore 
paranoid." I would hope that the folks developing applets, particularly 
those associated with electronic commerce and so forth, have similar 
attitudes and so would appreciate Ada's capabilities for developing 
solid software.

> It helps the number of takeoffs equal
> the number of landings, always a desirable characteristic!

Other than, say, spacecraft, aren't these always equal at some point?

-- 
LMTAS - "Our Brand Means Quality"

Re: Java is not the right language

[Dave Wood]

I might also point out that this capability is now 
commercially available, integrated with the new 
ObjectAda for Windows Professional Edition.

-- Dave Wood
-- Product Manager, ObjectAda for Windows (and Java)
-- Thomson Software Products
-- http://www.thomsoft.com



Mike Stark wrote:
> 
> Bert THOMPSON wrote:
> >
> > ben@documenta.com.au (Benjamin Hardy) writes:
> >
> > |Alexander Anderson <sandy@almide.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > |>
> > |>    Still, I would prefer Ada to C++ any day.
> >
> > |How is this discussion of Ada relevant?
> > |Has somebody written an Ada bytecode compiler or something?
> 
> As a matter of fact, somebody has.  Intermetrics has a beta version
> of AppletMagic that can be downloaded from the WWW which does
> precisely that.  I have been playing with it and have been impressed.
> In principle, you should be able to extend Ada tagged types with
> Java classes and vice versa.  In practice, the documentation with
> the beta is much more helpful in developing Ada programs using the
> Java APIs than in integrating Ada code into Java applications or
> applets.  At this point, we have successfully integrated an Ada
> package and made it callable by Java, but we haven't quite got the
> hang of how to extend Ada types into Java classes (but I think I'm
> close ;).
> 
> The real news, however, is that the product seems to be very solid.
> The only problems I've had have been due to the beta not imple-
> menting a feature, or incomplete (beta-ish) documentation.  The
> system itself works well and provides good diagnostic messages when
> you have a source code error.
> >
> > |It reminds me of this old humorous article about programming languages
> > |and the programmers that stereotypically would use them.
> >
> > |It said something like "Ada programmers are neurotic people who carefully
> > |line up sharp pencils on an otherwise clear desk", or something to that
> > |effect. Not too bad. I won't repeat what it said about COBOL... :-)
> >
> > Ha ha. Very droll.
> >
> > <<stuff defending Ada for large projects deleted>>
> Bert -- where's your sense of humor,man!!??  I think the joke gets at
> the larger truth that when someone is developing systems that will
> land airliners you *want* that neurotic (I prefer the term "attention
>  to detail", myself) attitude.  It helps the number of takeoffs equal
> the number of landings, always a desirable characteristic!
> 
> Mike (an Ada user who can take a joke)
> >
> > Bert

Re: Java is not the right language

[Jon S Anthony]

In article <322EA52F.69A0@gsfc.nasa.gov> Mike Stark <michael.e.stark@gsfc.nasa.gov> writes:

> > |>    Still, I would prefer Ada to C++ any day.
> > 
> > |How is this discussion of Ada relevant?
> > |Has somebody written an Ada bytecode compiler or something?
> 
> As a matter of fact, somebody has.  Intermetrics has a beta version
> of AppletMagic that can be downloaded from the WWW which does
> precisely that.  I have been playing with it and have been impressed.
> In principle, you should be able to extend Ada tagged types with
> Java classes and vice versa.  In practice, the documentation with
[...]
> 
> The real news, however, is that the product seems to be very solid.
> The only problems I've had have been due to the beta not imple-
> menting a feature, or incomplete (beta-ish) documentation.  The
> system itself works well and provides good diagnostic messages when
> you have a source code error.

Yes, we are starting into this too.  It looks very good and it is
really nice to be able to move from "standard" applications to Java
apps and just reuse a lot of what you've already done.  This plus the
fact that Iona/OIS have the Orbix/Ada out there has really brought it
home that nothing interoperates as well and as smoothly among all
sorts of systems and languages as Ada95.  Nothing.  Including Java.
Hey, and its cheap too!


> Mike (an Ada user who can take a joke)

Exactly! ;-)

/Jon
-- 
Jon Anthony
Organon Motives, Inc.
1 Williston Road, Suite 4
Belmont, MA 02178

617.484.3383
jsa@organon.com