Ada In Crosstalk

Ada In Crosstalk

[Richard Riehle]

Check out the current issue of Crosstalk and its
support for Ada.

          http://www.stsc.hill.af.mil/crosstalk/2003/02/

Richard Riehle

Re: Ada In Crosstalk

[Dr. Michael Paus]

Richard Riehle wrote:
> Check out the current issue of Crosstalk and its
> support for Ada.
> 
>           http://www.stsc.hill.af.mil/crosstalk/2003/02/
> 
> Richard Riehle

Could everybody who is not able to get onto this server like me
please post here. Maybe that wakes up some people and makes them
aware of the fact that Ada advertising is useless if lots of people
simply cannot read it.

Michael

Re: Ada In Crosstalk

[Jeffrey Creem]

Access has been poor for me. I could not get in at all yesterday. Today I
can.

"Dr. Michael Paus" <paus@ib-paus.com> wrote in message
news:b15ohc$kgv$1@news.online.de...

> >
> >           http://www.stsc.hill.af.mil/crosstalk/2003/02/

> Could everybody who is not able to get onto this server like me
> please post here. Maybe that wakes up some people and makes them
> aware of the fact that Ada advertising is useless if lots of people
> simply cannot read it.
>
> Michael
>

Re: Ada In Crosstalk

[Wes Groleau]

>>           http://www.stsc.hill.af.mil/crosstalk/2003/02/
> 
> Could everybody who is not able to get onto this server like me
> please post here. Maybe that wakes up some people and makes them
> aware of the fact that Ada advertising is useless if lots of people
> simply cannot read it.

I think it's like a miniature slashdot effect.
C.L.A. mentions the site, and their server can't
handle the sudden flood (of twenty-five people).

Re: Ada In Crosstalk

[David C. Hoos]

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Wes Groleau" <wesgroleau@despammed.com>
Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada
To: <comp.lang.ada@ada.eu.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 7:34 AM
Subject: Re: Ada In Crosstalk


> 
> >>           http://www.stsc.hill.af.mil/crosstalk/2003/02/
> > 
> > Could everybody who is not able to get onto this server like me
> > please post here. Maybe that wakes up some people and makes them
> > aware of the fact that Ada advertising is useless if lots of people
> > simply cannot read it.
No, this is an issue that Dr. Paus has mentioned befor in this forum -- the
.mil sites deny access to certain foreign IP addresses.
> 
> I think it's like a miniature slashdot effect.
> C.L.A. mentions the site, and their server can't
> handle the sudden flood (of twenty-five people).
> 
> _______________________________________________
> comp.lang.ada mailing list
> comp.lang.ada@ada.eu.org
> http://ada.eu.org/mailman/listinfo/comp.lang.ada
> 

Re: Ada In Crosstalk

[Wes Groleau]

David C. Hoos wrote:
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Wes Groleau" <wesgroleau@despammed.com>
> Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada
> To: <comp.lang.ada@ada.eu.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 7:34 AM
> Subject: Re: Ada In Crosstalk
> 
> 
> 
>>>>          http://www.stsc.hill.af.mil/crosstalk/2003/02/
>>>
>>>Could everybody who is not able to get onto this server like me
>>>please post here. Maybe that wakes up some people and makes them
>>>aware of the fact that Ada advertising is useless if lots of people
>>>simply cannot read it.
>>
> No, this is an issue that Dr. Paus has mentioned befor in this forum -- the
> .mil sites deny access to certain foreign IP addresses.
> 
>>I think it's like a miniature slashdot effect.
>>C.L.A. mentions the site, and their server can't
>>handle the sudden flood (of twenty-five people).
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>comp.lang.ada mailing list
>>comp.lang.ada@ada.eu.org
>>http://ada.eu.org/mailman/listinfo/comp.lang.ada
>>
> 

Re: Ada In Crosstalk

[Wes Groleau]

 >>I think it's like a miniature slashdot effect.
 >>C.L.A. mentions the site, and their server can't
 >>handle the sudden flood (of twenty-five people).

> No, this is an issue that Dr. Paus has mentioned befor in this forum -- the
> .mil sites deny access to certain foreign IP addresses.

I can believe that.

On the other hand, almost every time
I try to follow an STSC reference in CLA,
(from my Indiana worksite, through
a proxy in Boston, Dallas, or Los Angeles),
it fails.  It usually works the next day.

Re: Ada In Crosstalk

[Warren W. Gay VE3WWG]

Wes Groleau wrote:
>  >>I think it's like a miniature slashdot effect.
>  >>C.L.A. mentions the site, and their server can't
>  >>handle the sudden flood (of twenty-five people).
> 
>> No, this is an issue that Dr. Paus has mentioned befor in this forum 
>> -- the
>> .mil sites deny access to certain foreign IP addresses.
> 
> I can believe that.
> 
> On the other hand, almost every time
> I try to follow an STSC reference in CLA,
> (from my Indiana worksite, through
> a proxy in Boston, Dallas, or Los Angeles),
> it fails.  It usually works the next day.

Many times, people have confused "access" with "name
server resolution errors". When you go to a web site,
two things must happen :

   1. The "resolver" must lookup the site name (host name)
      by contacting a chain of name servers.
   2. Using the IP # from the resolver, you then establish
      a session with the webserver.

These are two completely different processes, although they
look "combined" when you make use of a browser (you are
more aware of this when you do socket programming).

Try contacting directly by IP # 137.241.248.34  (this
was an "unauthoritative" answer according to my nslookup).

Some of you may just not be "resolving" the host site name.
Others may indeed have IP access related issues.

-- 
Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
http://home.cogeco.ca/~ve3wwg

Re: Ada In Crosstalk

[Wes Groleau]

>> On the other hand, almost every time
>> I try to follow an STSC reference in CLA,
>> (from my Indiana worksite, through
>> a proxy in Boston, Dallas, or Los Angeles),
>> it fails.  It usually works the next day.
> 
> Many times, people have confused "access" with "name
> server resolution errors". When you go to a web site,
> two things must happen :

Let me clarify: I get a _timeout_ on Hill
if I go there in response to a mention
in CLA.

If I go there some other time, it usually works.

Re: Ada In Crosstalk

[Vinzent Hoefler]

Wes Groleau wrote:

> Let me clarify: I get a _timeout_ on Hill
> if I go there in response to a mention
> in CLA.

Just to clarify. Same here and it does not matter if I am in Switzerland 
or - as currently - in the US.


Vinzent.

-- 
Opinions are like assholes -- everyone's got one, but nobody wants to
look at the other guy's.
                -- Hal Hickman

Re: Ada In Crosstalk

[Dr. Michael Paus]

Warren W. Gay VE3WWG wrote:
> Wes Groleau wrote:
> 
>>  >>I think it's like a miniature slashdot effect.
>>  >>C.L.A. mentions the site, and their server can't
>>  >>handle the sudden flood (of twenty-five people).
>>
>>> No, this is an issue that Dr. Paus has mentioned befor in this forum 
>>> -- the
>>> .mil sites deny access to certain foreign IP addresses.
>>
>>
>> I can believe that.
>>
>> On the other hand, almost every time
>> I try to follow an STSC reference in CLA,
>> (from my Indiana worksite, through
>> a proxy in Boston, Dallas, or Los Angeles),
>> it fails.  It usually works the next day.
> 
> 
> Many times, people have confused "access" with "name
> server resolution errors". When you go to a web site,
> two things must happen :
> 
>   1. The "resolver" must lookup the site name (host name)
>      by contacting a chain of name servers.
>   2. Using the IP # from the resolver, you then establish
>      a session with the webserver.
> 
> These are two completely different processes, although they
> look "combined" when you make use of a browser (you are
> more aware of this when you do socket programming).
> 
> Try contacting directly by IP # 137.241.248.34  (this
> was an "unauthoritative" answer according to my nslookup).
> 
> Some of you may just not be "resolving" the host site name.
> Others may indeed have IP access related issues.
> 

Well, I think I can tell difference between a time out and a
name resolution problem. Here is my answer from nslookup:

Nicht autorisierte Antwort:
Name:    wbmas-stsc1.hill.af.mil
Address:  137.241.248.34
Aliases:  www.stsc.hill.af.mil

So you see the name resolution is not the problem.

If I do a ping with the above IP # I never get to the
target. I get a time out somewhere in between and this is
always true for a couple of months now.

I have already posted the details in a previous post which
I do not want to repeat now.

Michael

Re: Ada In Crosstalk

[John R. Strohm]

"Dr. Michael Paus" <paus@ib-paus.com> wrote in message
news:b18383$j0t$1@news.online.de...
> Well, I think I can tell difference between a time out and a
> name resolution problem. Here is my answer from nslookup:
>
> Nicht autorisierte Antwort:
> Name:    wbmas-stsc1.hill.af.mil
> Address:  137.241.248.34
> Aliases:  www.stsc.hill.af.mil
>
> So you see the name resolution is not the problem.
>
> If I do a ping with the above IP # I never get to the
> target. I get a time out somewhere in between and this is
> always true for a couple of months now.
>
> I have already posted the details in a previous post which
> I do not want to repeat now.

For those of us who came in late, what does traceroute show?

Re: Ada In Crosstalk

[Dr. Michael Paus]

John R. Strohm wrote:
> "Dr. Michael Paus" <paus@ib-paus.com> wrote in message
> news:b18383$j0t$1@news.online.de...
> 
>>Well, I think I can tell difference between a time out and a
>>name resolution problem. Here is my answer from nslookup:
>>
>>Nicht autorisierte Antwort:
>>Name:    wbmas-stsc1.hill.af.mil
>>Address:  137.241.248.34
>>Aliases:  www.stsc.hill.af.mil
>>
>>So you see the name resolution is not the problem.
>>
>>If I do a ping with the above IP # I never get to the
>>target. I get a time out somewhere in between and this is
>>always true for a couple of months now.
>>
>>I have already posted the details in a previous post which
>>I do not want to repeat now.
> 
> 
> For those of us who came in late, what does traceroute show?

 >tracert 137.241.248.34

Routenverfolgung zu wbmas-stsc1.hill.af.mil [137.241.248.34]  über maximal 30 Ab
schnitte:

   1     1 ms     1 ms     1 ms  192.168.1.32
   2    58 ms    59 ms    60 ms  217.5.98.32
   3    59 ms    59 ms    59 ms  217.237.152.246
   4   147 ms   147 ms   146 ms  NYC-gw14.USA.net.DTAG.DE [62.156.131.146]
   5   145 ms   147 ms   145 ms  jfk-brdr-02.inet.qwest.net [205.171.1.49]
   6   146 ms   147 ms   148 ms  jfk-core-03.inet.qwest.net [205.171.230.26]
   7   155 ms   153 ms   151 ms  dca-core-03.inet.qwest.net [205.171.8.218]
   8   185 ms   187 ms   187 ms  iah-core-01.inet.qwest.net [205.171.5.186]
   9   187 ms   187 ms   187 ms  iah-core-02.inet.qwest.net [205.171.31.2]
  10   216 ms   218 ms   216 ms  bur-core-01.inet.qwest.net [205.171.205.25]
  11   215 ms   216 ms   215 ms  lax-core-01.inet.qwest.net [205.171.8.41]
  12   217 ms   216 ms   216 ms  lax-edge-08.inet.qwest.net [205.171.19.142]
  13   220 ms   220 ms   220 ms  65.113.16.22
  14   221 ms   220 ms   223 ms  198.26.130.34
  15   221 ms   219 ms   220 ms  BU-WCX-SAND.NIPR.MIL [198.26.130.33]
  16   227 ms   223 ms   223 ms  198.26.130.34
  17   221 ms   221 ms   220 ms  BU-WCX-SAND.NIPR.MIL [198.26.130.33]
  18   222 ms   224 ms   221 ms  198.26.130.34
  19   221 ms   223 ms   265 ms  198.26.118.34
  20   272 ms   262 ms   265 ms  198.26.118.33
  21   266 ms   263 ms   264 ms  198.26.118.34
  22   266 ms   265 ms   265 ms  198.26.118.33
  23   264 ms   302 ms   317 ms  198.26.122.9
  24   245 ms   240 ms   245 ms  198.26.122.10
  25   243 ms   249 ms   246 ms  198.26.122.9
  26   241 ms   248 ms     *     198.26.122.10
  27     *        *        *     Zeitüberschreitung der Anforderung.
  28  ^C

This looks worse than usual. Some machines at the end of the chain
seem to be sending messages back and forth to each other.

Michael

Re: Ada In Crosstalk

[Michael Bode]

"Dr. Michael Paus" <paus@ib-paus.com> writes:

>   19   221 ms   223 ms   265 ms  198.26.118.34
>   20   272 ms   262 ms   265 ms  198.26.118.33
>   21   266 ms   263 ms   264 ms  198.26.118.34
>   22   266 ms   265 ms   265 ms  198.26.118.33
>   23   264 ms   302 ms   317 ms  198.26.122.9
>   24   245 ms   240 ms   245 ms  198.26.122.10
>   25   243 ms   249 ms   246 ms  198.26.122.9
>   26   241 ms   248 ms     *     198.26.122.10

Am I the only one who thinks that this looks strange? Anyway I have no
problem reaching www.stsc.hill.af.mil from t-online.de / Germany. So
if they would block Germany they'd have missed the largest ISP. Not
very plausible.

-- 
F�r OE User: http://learn.to/quote/
OE users please read http://www.uwasa.fi/~ts/http/quote.html
PGP Key: http://home.t-online.de/home/michael_bode/
Legal Disclaimer: Wer Sarkasmus findet, darf ihn behalten.

Re: Ada In Crosstalk

[Vinzent Hoefler]

Dr. Michael Paus wrote:

> Well, I think I can tell difference between a time out and a
> name resolution problem. Here is my answer from nslookup:
> 
> Nicht autorisierte Antwort:
> Name:    wbmas-stsc1.hill.af.mil
> Address:  137.241.248.34
> Aliases:  www.stsc.hill.af.mil
> 
> So you see the name resolution is not the problem.
> 
> If I do a ping with the above IP # I never get to the
> target.

The server does not answer pings, look at this:

jlfencey@jellix:~> ping www.stsc.hill.af.mil
PING wbmas-stsc1.hill.af.mil (137.241.248.34) from XXX.XXX.XXX.XXX : 
56(84) bytes of data.

--- wbmas-stsc1.hill.af.mil ping statistics ---
8 packets transmitted, 0 received, 100% loss, time 7011ms

But it answers http requests:

jlfencey@jellix:~> telnet www.stsc.hill.af.mil 80
Trying 137.241.248.34...
Connected to www.stsc.hill.af.mil.
Escape character is '^]'.
get index.html
HTTP/1.1 400 Bad Request
Server: Microsoft-IIS/5.0
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 14:31:15 GMT
Content-Type: text/html
Content-Length: 87


Vinzent.

-- 
God must love assholes -- She made so many of them.

Re: Ada In Crosstalk

[Warren W. Gay VE3WWG]

Vinzent Hoefler wrote:
> Dr. Michael Paus wrote:
>>Well, I think I can tell difference between a time out and a
>>name resolution problem. Here is my answer from nslookup:
>>
>>Nicht autorisierte Antwort:
>>Name:    wbmas-stsc1.hill.af.mil
>>Address:  137.241.248.34
>>Aliases:  www.stsc.hill.af.mil
>>
>>So you see the name resolution is not the problem.
>>
>>If I do a ping with the above IP # I never get to the
>>target.
> 
> The server does not answer pings, look at this:
> 
> jlfencey@jellix:~> ping www.stsc.hill.af.mil
> PING wbmas-stsc1.hill.af.mil (137.241.248.34) from XXX.XXX.XXX.XXX : 
> 56(84) bytes of data.
> 
> --- wbmas-stsc1.hill.af.mil ping statistics ---
> 8 packets transmitted, 0 received, 100% loss, time 7011ms
> 
> But it answers http requests:
...
> Vinzent.

It is also not unusual for firewalls to reject ping requests,
even if you have a webserver available there. Just about
any firewall/security book will cover the reasons for it.

For that reason, and others, you cannot rely on ping
as a reliable indication.

-- 
Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
http://home.cogeco.ca/~ve3wwg

Re: Ada In Crosstalk

[Vinzent Hoefler]

Warren W. Gay VE3WWG wrote:

>> jlfencey@jellix:~> ping www.stsc.hill.af.mil
>> PING wbmas-stsc1.hill.af.mil (137.241.248.34) from XXX.XXX.XXX.XXX :
>> 56(84) bytes of data.
>> 
>> --- wbmas-stsc1.hill.af.mil ping statistics ---
>> 8 packets transmitted, 0 received, 100% loss, time 7011ms
>> 
>> But it answers http requests:
> ...
> 
> It is also not unusual for firewalls to reject ping requests,

Agree. Currently this is not the case here for me, but it is quite 
usual.

> For that reason, and others, you cannot rely on ping
> as a reliable indication.

ACK.


Vinzent.

-- 
Cocaine is nature's way of telling you you have too much money.

Re: Ada In Crosstalk

[tmoran]

> >>C.L.A. mentions the site, and their server can't
> >>handle the sudden flood (of twenty-five people).
> > No, this is an issue that Dr. Paus has mentioned befor in this forum -- the
> > .mil sites deny access to certain foreign IP addresses.
> it fails.  It usually works the next day.
  I couldn't get in yesterday morning but could in the afternoon.  I'm
happy to see it's not the case that the Administration has declared
California a foreign country. ;)

Re: Ada In Crosstalk

[John English]

Wes Groleau wrote:
> 
>  >>I think it's like a miniature slashdot effect.
>  >>C.L.A. mentions the site, and their server can't
>  >>handle the sudden flood (of twenty-five people).
> 
> > No, this is an issue that Dr. Paus has mentioned befor in this forum -- the
> > .mil sites deny access to certain foreign IP addresses.
> 
> I can believe that.
> 
> On the other hand, almost every time
> I try to follow an STSC reference in CLA,
> (from my Indiana worksite, through
> a proxy in Boston, Dallas, or Los Angeles),
> it fails.  It usually works the next day.

Maybe the extra day is how long it takes the spooks to do a security
check? :-)

-----------------------------------------------------------------
 John English              | mailto:je@brighton.ac.uk
 Senior Lecturer           | http://www.it.bton.ac.uk/staff/je
 Dept. of Computing        | ** NON-PROFIT CD FOR CS STUDENTS **
 University of Brighton    |    -- see http://burks.bton.ac.uk
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Re: Ada In Crosstalk

[Wes Groleau]

> Maybe the extra day is how long it takes the spooks to do a security
> check? :-)

I know you're joking, but I'll play serious
anyway.

When I decide I want to look something up
at STSC, I generally get in with no problem.

The exception is when the decision is prompted
by a note in C.L.A.  Hence my hypothesis that
they're overloaded by other C.L.A. readers.

Dr. Paus has a different problem--he says
he gets a timeout _always_.  So in his case,
I suspect a deliberate block somewhere along
the route.

Re: Ada In Crosstalk

[Richard Riehle]

"David C. Hoos" wrote:

> No, this is an issue that Dr. Paus has mentioned befor in this forum -- the
> .mil sites deny access to certain foreign IP addresses.

This is a good point, David.  Perhaps Crosstalk needs to set up a
mirror site that does not have a  .mil address.

In any case, this is not an Ada issue except on those rare occasions
when Crosstalk actually publishes something related to Ada.

Richard

Re: Ada In Crosstalk

[David C. Hoos]

"Richard Riehle" <richard@adaworks.com> wrote in message
news:3E36B92F.262B0CA5@adaworks.com...
> "David C. Hoos" wrote:
>
> > No, this is an issue that Dr. Paus has mentioned befor in this forum --
the
> > .mil sites deny access to certain foreign IP addresses.
>
> This is a good point, David.  Perhaps Crosstalk needs to set up a
> mirror site that does not have a  .mil address.
>
> In any case, this is not an Ada issue except on those rare occasions
> when Crosstalk actually publishes something related to Ada.
>
The prior incidents were with respect to Martin Carlisle's stuff on the
Air Force Academy's Web site.
> Richard
>
> _______________________________________________
> comp.lang.ada mailing list
> comp.lang.ada@ada.eu.org
> http://ada.eu.org/mailman/listinfo/comp.lang.ada
>

Re: Ada In Crosstalk

[chris.danx]

Richard Riehle wrote:
> "David C. Hoos" wrote:
> 
> 
>>No, this is an issue that Dr. Paus has mentioned befor in this forum -- the
>>.mil sites deny access to certain foreign IP addresses.
> 
> 
> This is a good point, David.  Perhaps Crosstalk needs to set up a
> mirror site that does not have a  .mil address.

.mil sites have been heavily locked down by the US gov apparently 
(http://212.100.234.54/content/55/28917.html), so this might not be a 
bad idea for Dr Carlisles pages - e.g. AdaGide.

Re: Ada In Crosstalk

[Wes Groleau]

>>           http://www.stsc.hill.af.mil/crosstalk/2003/02/
> 
> Could everybody who is not able to get onto this server like me
> please post here. Maybe that wakes up some people and makes them
> aware of the fact that Ada advertising is useless if lots of people
> simply cannot read it.

Dr. Paus:

    If .mil is blocking your machine, perhaps you could
    still view the site via some intermediary.  For example,

    http://www.anonymizer.com  will retrieve a web page
    and serve you a re-creation of it.

or

    go to http://spanish.about.com
    scroll down and click "Translation" in the left nav bar.
    pick the automatic translations
    Some of the items listed can take a URI, retrieve the
    page, and serve a poor quality translation of it.
    If you set the "From" to english and the "To" also to English,
    the page should be nearly unchanged.

Re: Ada In Crosstalk

[Dr. Michael Paus]

Wes Groleau wrote:
>>>           http://www.stsc.hill.af.mil/crosstalk/2003/02/
>>
>>
>> Could everybody who is not able to get onto this server like me
>> please post here. Maybe that wakes up some people and makes them
>> aware of the fact that Ada advertising is useless if lots of people
>> simply cannot read it.
> 
> 
> Dr. Paus:
> 
>    If .mil is blocking your machine, perhaps you could
>    still view the site via some intermediary.  For example,
> 
>    http://www.anonymizer.com  will retrieve a web page
>    and serve you a re-creation of it.

Many thanks for the hint. I'd never thought that this might work
but it does. I always thought the problem is related to some
security issues and therefore I did not expect a well known
anonymyzer to work and so I never tried it.

Michael

Re: Ada In Crosstalk

[Wes Groleau]

> Many thanks for the hint. I'd never thought that this might work
> but it does. I always thought the problem is related to some
> security issues and therefore I did not expect a well known
> anonymyzer to work and so I never tried it.

It probably is a security issue.  But there's a big
difference in results whether the boss says,

"Hey, Seargeant! Tell the firewall to block access
from this list of domains."

or

"Hey, Seargeant!  Are there any indirect methods
that bad guys might use to get around our IP blacklist?"

Remember there's a pretty good chance the officer
who says, "Hey, Seargent!" doesn't know the difference
between a newsreader and a web browser.

"IP" is what he thinks after his fourth beer.

Re: Ada In Crosstalk

[Marc A. Criley]

Richard Riehle <richard@adaworks.com> wrote in message news:<3E34330C.62C5A6F0@adaworks.com>...
> Check out the current issue of Crosstalk and its
> support for Ada.
> 
>           http://www.stsc.hill.af.mil/crosstalk/2003/02/

Just to get back to the subject of the..uh..subject...

The articles were interesting, discussing "Evolutionary Trends",
"Language Considerations", and the original intent of the SEPR
(Software Engineering Process Review).  It was gratifying to see Ada
given a fair hearing in each of these, which is all I, as an advocate
of the language, have ever asked for.

Good work, Richard, et.al.

Marc A. Criley
Quadrus Corporation
www.quadruscorp.com