* Ada not mentioned in GCC 4.3 release notes @ 2008-03-11 4:19 Jerry 2008-03-11 6:35 ` anon 0 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread From: Jerry @ 2008-03-11 4:19 UTC (permalink / raw) I'm just wondering why "GCC 4.3 Release Series Changes, New Features, and Fixes" at http://gcc.gnu.org/gcc-4.3/changes.html not mention Ada anywhere? There is a section of changes to specific languages but not Ada. I thought that 4.3 was the first gcc to handle Ada 2005, surely worth mentioning. Jerry ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: Ada not mentioned in GCC 4.3 release notes 2008-03-11 4:19 Ada not mentioned in GCC 4.3 release notes Jerry @ 2008-03-11 6:35 ` anon 2008-03-11 7:33 ` Tero Koskinen 0 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread From: anon @ 2008-03-11 6:35 UTC (permalink / raw) Actual, any GCC after GCC-4.00 had Ada 2005. The problem may be that Adacore has not update the GPL license from 2 to 3 and all GNU GCC type packages are to be under the GPL 3 license. In <9cd86244-11e5-45a1-b77b-1fb13e99b9ee@s12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, Jerry <lanceboyle@qwest.net> writes: >I'm just wondering why "GCC 4.3 Release Series Changes, New Features, >and Fixes" at http://gcc.gnu.org/gcc-4.3/changes.html not mention Ada >anywhere? There is a section of changes to specific languages but not >Ada. I thought that 4.3 was the first gcc to handle Ada 2005, surely >worth mentioning. > >Jerry > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: Ada not mentioned in GCC 4.3 release notes 2008-03-11 6:35 ` anon @ 2008-03-11 7:33 ` Tero Koskinen 2008-03-11 9:28 ` Ludovic Brenta 2008-03-11 21:54 ` anon 0 siblings, 2 replies; 9+ messages in thread From: Tero Koskinen @ 2008-03-11 7:33 UTC (permalink / raw) On Tue, 11 Mar 2008 06:35:21 GMT anon wrote: > Actual, any GCC after GCC-4.00 had Ada 2005. > > The problem may be that Adacore has not update the GPL license from 2 > to 3 and all GNU GCC type packages are to be under the GPL 3 license. Ada components of GNU GCC are under GPLv3 (+linking exception): http://gcc.gnu.org/viewvc?view=rev&revision=128332 > In <9cd86244-11e5-45a1-b77b-1fb13e99b9ee@s12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, Jerry <lanceboyle@qwest.net> writes: > >I'm just wondering why "GCC 4.3 Release Series Changes, New Features, > >and Fixes" at http://gcc.gnu.org/gcc-4.3/changes.html not mention Ada > >anywhere? There is a section of changes to specific languages but not > >Ada. I thought that 4.3 was the first gcc to handle Ada 2005, surely > >worth mentioning. > > > >Jerry Ada maintainers probably either forgot to update the changes or they are just not that interested in updating them. 4.2 changes was also missing Ada section. 4.0 and 4.1 had some notes. -- Tero Koskinen - http://iki.fi/tero.koskinen/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: Ada not mentioned in GCC 4.3 release notes 2008-03-11 7:33 ` Tero Koskinen @ 2008-03-11 9:28 ` Ludovic Brenta 2008-03-11 15:03 ` Britt Snodgrass 2008-03-11 21:54 ` anon 1 sibling, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread From: Ludovic Brenta @ 2008-03-11 9:28 UTC (permalink / raw) AdaCore ship release notes and lists of known problems in each release of GNAT Pro or GNAT GPL (look in ${prefix}/share/doc/gnat). Unfortunately, they omit to synchronise these release notes with GCC's announcement page. This reduces the visibility of Ada to the casual user and reinforces the impression that Ada is a second-class citizen in GCC. Too bad. If AdaCore would only put these files in the public source code repository, outside contributors would be able to produce release notes without having to read the entire detailed ChangeLog. Currently, this is too much work so nobody stepped forward to do it. -- Ludovic Brenta. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: Ada not mentioned in GCC 4.3 release notes 2008-03-11 9:28 ` Ludovic Brenta @ 2008-03-11 15:03 ` Britt Snodgrass 2008-03-11 15:45 ` Ludovic Brenta ` (2 more replies) 0 siblings, 3 replies; 9+ messages in thread From: Britt Snodgrass @ 2008-03-11 15:03 UTC (permalink / raw) On Mar 11, 4:28 am, Ludovic Brenta <ludo...@ludovic-brenta.org> wrote: > AdaCore ship release notes and lists of known problems in each release > of GNAT Pro or GNAT GPL (look in ${prefix}/share/doc/gnat). > Unfortunately, they omit to synchronise these release notes with GCC's > announcement page. This reduces the visibility of Ada to the casual > user and reinforces the impression that Ada is a second-class citizen > in GCC. Too bad. > Yes, I agree that its looks bad. I've raised the issue on the gcc list before but nothing has happened. However, I have GNAT Pro 6.1.1 (the latest release) at work and it reports that it is using GCC 4.1.3, not 4.3, so maybe that's part of the explanation. - Britt ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: Ada not mentioned in GCC 4.3 release notes 2008-03-11 15:03 ` Britt Snodgrass @ 2008-03-11 15:45 ` Ludovic Brenta 2008-03-13 16:29 ` Ivan Levashew 2008-03-13 19:01 ` Georg Bauhaus 2 siblings, 0 replies; 9+ messages in thread From: Ludovic Brenta @ 2008-03-11 15:45 UTC (permalink / raw) Britt Snodgrass wrote: > On Mar 11, 4:28�am, Ludovic Brenta <ludo...@ludovic-brenta.org> wrote: > > AdaCore ship release notes and lists of known problems in each release > > of GNAT Pro or GNAT GPL (look in ${prefix}/share/doc/gnat). > > Unfortunately, they omit to synchronise these release notes with GCC's > > announcement page. This reduces the visibility of Ada to the casual > > user and reinforces the impression that Ada is a second-class citizen > > in GCC. Too bad. > > > > Yes, I agree that its looks bad. I've raised the issue on the gcc > list before but nothing has happened. Indeed. AdaCore spends their time supporting their paying customers, not the "enthusiasts" looking at the public sources of GCC. > However, I have GNAT Pro 6.1.1 (the latest release) at work and it > reports that it is using GCC 4.1.3, not 4.3, so maybe that's part of > the explanation. Not really. The front-end and back-end have different life cycles. Almost all of the changes in AdaCore's release notes are in the front- end only. The front-end in GCC 4.3 is roughly equivalent to that of GNAT GPL 2007 (GNAT Pro 6.1.0?) so the release notes for those versions should apply, up to a point, to GCC 4.3. The date at which each feature was implemented gives a clue as to which features are in GCC 4.3. It should even be possible to correlate each item in the release notes with a commit in the public GCC repository but that's obviously a lot of work. -- Ludovic Brenta. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: Ada not mentioned in GCC 4.3 release notes 2008-03-11 15:03 ` Britt Snodgrass 2008-03-11 15:45 ` Ludovic Brenta @ 2008-03-13 16:29 ` Ivan Levashew 2008-03-13 19:01 ` Georg Bauhaus 2 siblings, 0 replies; 9+ messages in thread From: Ivan Levashew @ 2008-03-13 16:29 UTC (permalink / raw) Britt Snodgrass пишет: > Yes, I agree that its looks bad. I've raised the issue on the gcc > list before but nothing has happened. I think there are better ways to raise popularity of Ada. Those who are heading FOSS development seem to be completely unaware of Ada. For example, A. S. Tanenbaum in his "Modern Operating Systems", chapter 2 "Processes and threads" used Pidgin Pascal he just invented to demonstrate Hoare monitors: monitor ProducerConsumer condition full, empty; integer count; procedure insert(item: integer); begin if count = N then wait(full); insert_item(item); count := count+1; if count = 1 then signal(empty) end; function remove: integer; begin if count = 0 then wait(empty); remove = remove_item; count := count+1; if count = 1 then signal(full) end; count := 0; end monitor; procedure producer; begin while true do begin item = produce_item; ProducerConsumer.insert(item) end end; procedure consumer; begin while true do begin item = ProducerConsumer.remove; consume_item(item) end end; It's not about preferences, it's what complete unawareness is! How many people are reinventing Ada? Tanenbaum's Minix was foundation to Linux, and Tanenbaum's book is very popular in systems programming community. Systems programmers are completely unaware of Ada. Systems programmers read Tanenbaum's book. Systems programmers remain completely unaware of Ada. Another point: Ada bindings are aliens in the FOSS world. Consider 2 examples: 1. gettext gettext comes with Java, Lisp, *C#* bindings, but no Ada. If you need gettext in Ada, you must use separate package GtkAda (BTW, is there a standalone version of gettext/Ada?) Note C# here. http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/RDM.Tech.Q2.07/878F362F-2BF5-4C86-84E7-9C976F7BDDD4.html ----------quote------------ Does this mean that Microsoft is now aligned with open source developers and working to push open, interoperable implementations of its software? Is the old triangle of contention between Microsoft, Linux and Apple dissolving into a free and open love circle? Ha Ha, No. Microsoft is not trying to usher in a new OpenStep with .Net. It is working to usher in a new Win32: another decade of dependance upon Microsoft software that can only work on Windows. Why the subterfuge on submitting portions of .Net to standards bodies? Three guesses, and the first two don't count! The best way to keep opponents busy is to give them false directions that lead into traps. This will distract them from blazing their own successful, competing trail, and will lead them directly into containment with the least mess and inconvenience. Microsoft is leading Mono users and developers into a pleasant feeling trap. Along the way, they gain appreciation for Microsoft's development tools as they struggle to make their own open source copies. They will grow increasingly familiar with Microsoft's directions, up to the point where they are hopelessly brainwashed into thinking that Microsoft is leading technology into a paradise of openness. ----------quote------------ That's why C# must be moved off from gettext to the Gtk#, and Ada binding be moved from GtkAda to the gettext instead. 2. SWIG SWIG support many languages out-of-box, but guess what? GNAT-SWIG is still a separate project. It would be natural to aquire GNAT-SWIG into the SWIG. Even if it's not tested as good as another bindings. Mark Ada support "experimental" and bundle GNAT-SWIG with SWIG. There must be Ada FOSS wins other than just GCC. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: Ada not mentioned in GCC 4.3 release notes 2008-03-11 15:03 ` Britt Snodgrass 2008-03-11 15:45 ` Ludovic Brenta 2008-03-13 16:29 ` Ivan Levashew @ 2008-03-13 19:01 ` Georg Bauhaus 2 siblings, 0 replies; 9+ messages in thread From: Georg Bauhaus @ 2008-03-13 19:01 UTC (permalink / raw) On Thu, 2008-03-13 at 22:29 +0600, Ivan Levashew wrote: > Britt Snodgrass пишет: > > Yes, I agree that its looks bad. I've raised the issue on the gcc > > list before but nothing has happened. > > > I think there are better ways to raise popularity of Ada. Those who are > heading FOSS development seem to be completely unaware of Ada. For > example, A. S. Tanenbaum in his "Modern Operating Systems", chapter 2 > "Processes and threads" used Pidgin Pascal he just invented to > demonstrate Hoare monitors: > > monitor ProducerConsumer > condition full, empty; ... > It's not about preferences, it's what complete unawareness is! How many > people are reinventing Ada? Without reading the red-top press of computer society I can't tell who publicly announces awareness of what or whom for what reasons etc.. But for one thing, is seems a certain truth that Tanenbaum has heard of Ada. (And I hate to judge the ears of other people.) I think it is one of the conclusions one may draw from an article comparing concurrency features of the Orca programming language and the then new protected types of Ada. Even Ada instructors seem to have reason to use a language besides Ada. I see that in the Monitors section (3.9) of Burns/Wellings. They show a non-Ada source including the keyword "monitor" and the type "CONDITION_VARIABLE". Compare this to the example you found ;-) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: Ada not mentioned in GCC 4.3 release notes 2008-03-11 7:33 ` Tero Koskinen 2008-03-11 9:28 ` Ludovic Brenta @ 2008-03-11 21:54 ` anon 1 sibling, 0 replies; 9+ messages in thread From: anon @ 2008-03-11 21:54 UTC (permalink / raw) Download the MASTER version at Adacore.com! It is still under Adacore modified GPL version 2. Also any changes that is may in GNAT Ada will be at Adacore web first, it may take 6 months before others become aware of those changes. And that because the chages will first appear in GNAT PRO first, which GNU has no control over, then Adacore will release the changes to the GPL version on their website. After which the GNU and other can obtain the changes at Adacore. The copies that are at SF may or may not be complete! Some of the features of Ada do not work between Archs as well as all Archs version are not archived. Plus, if you look at GNU website, you will see that they do not use SF either, they use their own web site archive. Which may or may not match the SF versions. And some do not match Adacore either which is a big problem with GNAT Ada. In <20080311093324.7c3a0447.tero.koskinen@iki.fi>, Tero Koskinen <tero.koskinen@iki.fi> writes: >On Tue, 11 Mar 2008 06:35:21 GMT anon wrote: > >> Actual, any GCC after GCC-4.00 had Ada 2005. >> >> The problem may be that Adacore has not update the GPL license from 2 >> to 3 and all GNU GCC type packages are to be under the GPL 3 license. > >Ada components of GNU GCC are under GPLv3 (+linking exception): >http://gcc.gnu.org/viewvc?view=rev&revision=128332 > >> In <9cd86244-11e5-45a1-b77b-1fb13e99b9ee@s12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, Jerry <lanceboyle@qwest.net> writes: >> >I'm just wondering why "GCC 4.3 Release Series Changes, New Features, >> >and Fixes" at http://gcc.gnu.org/gcc-4.3/changes.html not mention Ada >> >anywhere? There is a section of changes to specific languages but not >> >Ada. I thought that 4.3 was the first gcc to handle Ada 2005, surely >> >worth mentioning. >> > >> >Jerry > >Ada maintainers probably either forgot to update the changes or they >are just not that interested in updating them. 4.2 changes was also >missing Ada section. 4.0 and 4.1 had some notes. > >-- >Tero Koskinen - http://iki.fi/tero.koskinen/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2008-03-13 19:01 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 9+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2008-03-11 4:19 Ada not mentioned in GCC 4.3 release notes Jerry 2008-03-11 6:35 ` anon 2008-03-11 7:33 ` Tero Koskinen 2008-03-11 9:28 ` Ludovic Brenta 2008-03-11 15:03 ` Britt Snodgrass 2008-03-11 15:45 ` Ludovic Brenta 2008-03-13 16:29 ` Ivan Levashew 2008-03-13 19:01 ` Georg Bauhaus 2008-03-11 21:54 ` anon
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