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From: Ted Dennison<dennison@telepath.com>
Subject: Re: A case where Ada defaults to unsafe?
Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 15:42:29 GMT
Date: 2002-01-04T15:42:29+00:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <F3kZ7.3859$cD4.6593@www.newsranger.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 3C35675D.276C2D81@canal-plus.fr

In article <3C35675D.276C2D81@canal-plus.fr>, Thierry Lelegard says...
>
>Maybe the actual question should be "why are there two distinct formats,
>with and without short-circuit?"
>
>"and then" has an actual added value over "and" (the short-circuit).
>On the other hand, what is the added value of "and"? What can be
>achieved by "and" that could not be by "and then" (except side-effect,
>which is a dirty practice)?

Again, I wish people would read the rationale before saying stuff like this. It
is exaplained there. 

One issue is that you may indeed want the side effects of both expressions
(dirty practice or no). Another is that the compiler is not free to reorder your
expressions for efficiency with the short-circuit forms, even if it turns out
that you really don't care what order they are performed in (which is usually
going to be the case). Another is that there are some circumstances where a
short-circuit is going to be *slower* than a non-short circuit calculation.
After all, a short-circuit implies an extra branch instruction, whereas normal
"and" is a simple integer-unit operation. Plus, if the typical eventuality is to
make it through to the last expression, then all those extra checks are a big
waste.

Now I know Robert Dewar is on record as saying that most of these issues either
don't apply on modern processors, or were never taken advantage of by any
compiler. But the above was the initial reasoning for not short-circuiting.

---
T.E.D.    homepage   - http://www.telepath.com/dennison/Ted/TED.html

No trees were killed in the sending of this message. 
However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.



  parent reply	other threads:[~2002-01-04 15:42 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 127+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2002-01-03 20:29 A case where Ada defaults to unsafe? Hyman Rosen
2002-01-03 20:38 ` Darren New
2002-01-03 21:36   ` Hyman Rosen
2002-01-04 14:29     ` Wes Groleau
2002-01-03 21:27 ` James Rogers
2002-01-03 21:32 ` Frank J. Lhota
2002-01-03 21:51   ` Hyman Rosen
2002-01-03 22:22     ` Ted Dennison
2002-01-03 23:07       ` Hyman Rosen
2002-01-03 23:38         ` Nick Williams
2002-01-04  0:15         ` Florian Weimer
2002-01-04  7:40         ` Preben Randhol
2002-01-04 14:39         ` Wes Groleau
2002-01-04 15:16         ` Ted Dennison
2002-01-04  3:35       ` Eric Merritt
2002-01-04 14:39         ` Robert A Duff
2002-01-04 14:27     ` Robert A Duff
2002-01-04 15:39       ` Larry Kilgallen
2002-01-04 15:57       ` Ted Dennison
2002-01-04 16:05       ` Ted Dennison
2002-01-10 21:22         ` Robert A Duff
2002-01-11  9:14           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2002-01-04 16:19       ` Brian Rogoff
2002-01-04 16:31         ` Ted Dennison
2002-01-08 20:55         ` Mark Lundquist
2002-01-16  0:14           ` Matthew Heaney
2002-01-16 20:19             ` Robert A Duff
2002-01-10 21:29         ` Robert A Duff
2002-01-11  9:25           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2002-01-19  0:35           ` Brian Rogoff
2002-01-19 14:15             ` Robert A Duff
2002-01-19 23:10               ` Brian Rogoff
2002-01-04 16:29     ` Robert Dewar
2002-01-04 17:32       ` Hyman Rosen
2002-01-04 18:50         ` Matthew Heaney
2002-01-04 18:56           ` Darren New
2002-01-04 19:10           ` Hyman Rosen
2002-01-04 20:08             ` Matthew Heaney
2002-01-04 20:14               ` Ted Dennison
2002-01-04 20:20               ` Hyman Rosen
2002-01-04 21:16                 ` Larry Kilgallen
2002-01-04 21:33                 ` Ted Dennison
2002-01-07 15:39                   ` Hyman Rosen
2002-01-07 16:06                     ` Ted Dennison
2002-01-07 16:50                     ` Larry Kilgallen
2002-01-07 17:18                       ` Hyman Rosen
2002-01-07 17:26                         ` Pat Rogers
2002-01-07 18:12                           ` Hyman Rosen
2002-01-07 18:40                             ` FGD
2002-01-07 20:04                             ` Pat Rogers
2002-01-05  0:08             ` Nick Roberts
2002-01-05 10:57               ` Simon Wright
2002-01-08 23:27                 ` Nick Roberts
2002-01-09  9:58                   ` Stuart Palin
2002-01-09 11:11                     ` Nick Roberts
2002-01-10 20:32                     ` Robert A Duff
2002-01-11  9:45                       ` Stuart Palin
2002-01-11 13:32                         ` Robert A Duff
2002-01-11 20:26                           ` Literate Programming [was: A case where ...] Nick Roberts
2002-01-12 16:37                             ` Georg Bauhaus
2002-01-13 14:46                               ` Nick Roberts
2002-01-14 14:17                             ` Eric Merritt
2002-01-14 23:20                               ` Nick Roberts
2002-01-15 18:54                                 ` Eric Merritt
2002-01-14 14:34                             ` Stephen Leake
2002-01-14 13:14                           ` A case where Ada defaults to unsafe? Stuart Palin
2002-01-14 14:38                             ` Preben Randhol
2002-01-16  6:00                             ` Simon Wright
2002-01-17  3:04                               ` David Starner
2002-01-17 15:08                                 ` Georg Bauhaus
2002-01-17 20:25                                   ` Simon Wright
2002-01-17  9:56                               ` Stuart Palin
     [not found]                           ` <3 <3C469FE6.B2C67ED6@baesystems.com>
2002-01-17 20:32                             ` Simon Wright
2002-01-14 14:35                         ` Preben Randhol
2002-01-14 16:36                         ` Robert A Duff
2002-01-12 12:27                   ` Simon Wright
2002-01-05  0:32         ` Robert Dewar
2002-01-14 16:09     ` Matthieu Moy
2002-01-20  8:59       ` Hyman Rosen
2002-01-20 19:13         ` Jim Rogers
2002-01-20 21:19           ` Ray Blaak
2002-01-03 22:07 ` Ted Dennison
2002-01-04 17:12   ` Preben Randhol
2002-01-04 17:21     ` Jean-Marc Bourguet
2002-01-04 18:54     ` Ted Dennison
2002-01-04  3:17 ` Larry Kilgallen
2002-01-04  8:27 ` Thierry Lelegard
2002-01-04  8:39   ` tmoran
2002-01-04  9:03     ` Thierry Lelegard
2002-01-04 14:43       ` Wes Groleau
2002-01-04 15:45       ` Ted Dennison
2002-01-04 16:37         ` Wes Groleau
2002-01-04 16:56           ` Ted Dennison
2002-01-04 11:51   ` Larry Kilgallen
2002-01-04 12:41   ` M. A. Alves
2002-01-04 15:42   ` Ted Dennison [this message]
2002-01-04 17:16     ` Hyman Rosen
2002-01-04 19:12       ` Ted Dennison
2002-01-04 23:36   ` Matthew Woodcraft
2002-01-05 15:00 ` Steve Doiel
2002-01-10 20:49   ` Robert A Duff
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2002-01-03 23:18 Gautier Write-only-address
2002-01-03 23:26 Gautier Write-only-address
2002-01-03 23:54 ` Larry Hazel
2002-01-04 14:33   ` Robert A Duff
2002-01-05 12:47 Gautier Write-only-address
2002-01-07 16:24 ` Ted Dennison
2002-01-07 18:17   ` FGD
2002-01-07 18:21     ` Hyman Rosen
2002-01-07 20:26       ` Matthew Woodcraft
2002-01-07 21:16         ` Hyman Rosen
2002-01-13  8:23           ` Hyman Rosen
2002-01-13  9:06             ` Preben Randhol
2002-01-13 10:41             ` Larry Kilgallen
2002-01-14  5:47               ` Hyman Rosen
2002-01-14 12:41               ` Georg Bauhaus
2002-01-13 18:21             ` Michal Nowak
2002-01-14  1:29               ` Ted Dennison
2002-01-14 14:36                 ` Ted Dennison
2002-01-14 22:43                 ` Michal Nowak
2002-01-10 20:47         ` Robert A Duff
2002-01-10 23:37           ` Preben Randhol
2002-01-11  1:31             ` Robert A Duff
2002-01-11 20:32               ` Nick Roberts
2002-01-11 16:47           ` Hyman Rosen
2002-01-07 16:45 Gautier Write-only-address
2002-01-07 19:33 ` Ted Dennison
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