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From: eachus@spectre.mitre.org (Robert I. Eachus)
Subject: Re: Any research putting c above ada?
Date: 1997/04/30
Date: 1997-04-30T00:00:00+00:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <EACHUS.97Apr30145510@spectre.mitre.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 5k67fl$eit@mtinsc03.worldnet.att.net


In article <5k67fl$eit@mtinsc03.worldnet.att.net> Craig Franck <clfranck@worldnet.att.net> writes:

  > Oh, sure; why should they care if phone service is disrupted? I 
  > think you can argue which snippet is more readable. I think Ada
  > may be a tad too verbose, and C a smidgeon too terse.

   And did Ma Bell ever catch it for those major outages a few years
ago!  (In fact several people on their way to an Ada 9X requirements
meeting in Portsmouth, England have fond memories of spending seven
hours or so on the ground because of one failure.)  But I digress...

   A better Ada statement of swap would be:

   procedure Swap (A,B : in out Integer) is
     Temp : Integer := A;
   begin A := B; B := Temp; end Swap;

   I'm not going to count characters, but that feels less verbose than
the C not more.

  > Anyway, is AND more readable than &&? Who knows.

   I do, lots of us do, and yes, it is. (But "and" in lower case is
more readable.)  There are some areas where Ada went with conventional
syntax, such as the arithmetic operations, and others where it can be
oververbose.  But in general, the most easily readable option was the
one chosen.  You have no concept how much Sturm and Drang went on
about the notation for types derived from tagged types which do not
add state.  The final answer was a compromise:

   type Bar is new Foo with null record;

   Three keywords to indicate that the type could have been extended,
but wasn't.  There needs to be something, and a lot of us wanted "with
null;" instead of "with null record;" but that's what compromise is
about.  (And two keywords is the minimum.  The first tells you it is
an extensible type, the second that it wasn't extended here.  If you
fold that together, it is tougher to parse as you read.)


					Robert I. Eachus

with Standard_Disclaimer;
use  Standard_Disclaimer;
function Message (Text: in Clever_Ideas) return Better_Ideas is...
--

					Robert I. Eachus

with Standard_Disclaimer;
use  Standard_Disclaimer;
function Message (Text: in Clever_Ideas) return Better_Ideas is...




  reply	other threads:[~1997-04-30  0:00 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 295+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
1997-04-09  0:00 Any research putting c above ada? Konstantin B. Goldin
1997-04-10  0:00 ` Thomas Aho
1997-04-10  0:00 ` Bob Stout
1997-04-10  0:00 ` Matthew Heaney
1997-04-10  0:00 ` Daniel P Hudson
1997-04-10  0:00 ` Richard Krehbiel
1997-04-10  0:00   ` Tom Wheeley
1997-04-11  0:00     ` Richard Kenner
1997-04-16  0:00     ` Daniel P Hudson
1997-04-17  0:00     ` Stephen Leake
1997-04-10  0:00   ` Philip Brashear
1997-04-10  0:00     ` CubanPete
1997-04-11  0:00       ` John Thomas Apa
1997-04-10  0:00   ` Andrew Dunstan
1997-04-11  0:00   ` Gary W Smith
1997-04-11  0:00   ` James Youngman
1997-04-11  0:00     ` Steve Summit
1997-04-12  0:00       ` Dave Wood
1997-04-14  0:00         ` Chris Lomont
1997-04-16  0:00           ` Dave Wood
1997-04-11  0:00   ` Steve Jones - JON
1997-04-11  0:00     ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-04-12  0:00       ` Tom Wheeley
     [not found]       ` <01bc46be$fb54cae0$3f6700cf@default>
1997-04-13  0:00         ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-04-14  0:00           ` Craig Franck
     [not found]       ` <33526cbf.41c6@cca.rockwell.com>
     [not found]         ` <5iusvd$118e@newssvr01-int.news.prodigy.com>
1997-04-14  0:00           ` James S. Rogers
     [not found]           ` <33530e22.5940@worldnet.att.net>
1997-04-16  0:00             ` Matthew Givens
1997-04-18  0:00               ` Kenneth Almquist
1997-04-20  0:00                 ` Matthew Givens
1997-04-22  0:00                   ` Alan Brain
     [not found]                   ` <335d880c.324@dynamite.com.au>
1997-05-04  0:00                     ` Matthew Givens
1997-05-05  0:00                       ` Alan Brain
     [not found]                       ` <336ea9ca.3c92@dynamite.com.au>
1997-05-07  0:00                         ` Matthew Givens
1997-05-06  0:00                           ` Tom Moran
1997-05-07  0:00                             ` Jon S Anthony
1997-05-07  0:00                           ` Jon S Anthony
1997-05-07  0:00                           ` Kevin Cline
     [not found]                           ` <5aedd9b0882ea1bf.69856d7f77cd2ae3.229bf1374681c88b@library-proxy.airnews.net>
1997-05-10  0:00                             ` Matthew Givens
1997-05-10  0:00                               ` Robert S. White
1997-05-11  0:00                               ` Kevin Cline
1997-05-16  0:00                               ` brad.balfour
1997-05-14  0:00                           ` T Wheeley
1997-04-19  0:00               ` Tom Wheeley
     [not found]           ` <33541be1.14961570@news.airmail.net>
1997-04-16  0:00             ` Matthew Givens
1997-04-16  0:00               ` Dale Stanbrough
     [not found]           ` <3353a187.1062@bix.com>
1997-04-16  0:00             ` Matthew Givens
1997-04-17  0:00               ` Tom Moran
     [not found]               ` <33545F8D.2AF4@worldnet.att.net>
     [not found]                 ` <335569F1.55A0@pratique.fr>
1997-04-20  0:00                   ` Nick Roberts
     [not found]         ` <5j0e5i$qgi@bcrkh13.bnr.ca>
1997-04-16  0:00           ` Matthew Givens
     [not found]           ` <5j4ijn$3ta1@news.knox.edu>
1997-04-17  0:00             ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-04-18  0:00               ` Tim Behrendsen
     [not found]           ` <33552C53.41C6@cca.rockwell.com>
1997-04-20  0:00             ` Steve Doiel
1997-04-20  0:00               ` Jay Martin
1997-04-21  0:00             ` Robert I. Eachus
1997-04-14  0:00       ` Roy Grimm
1997-04-11  0:00     ` Terry Colligan
1997-04-11  0:00       ` Larry J. Elmore
1997-04-12  0:00         ` Terry Colligan
     [not found]     ` <3359e813.340466234@news.pacificnet.net>
1997-04-11  0:00       ` James S. Rogers
1997-04-12  0:00         ` Steve Summit
1997-04-12  0:00         ` Danette & Murray Root
1997-04-12  0:00       ` Dave Wood
1997-04-13  0:00         ` Larry Kilgallen
     [not found]         ` <3373409f.494266577@news.pacificnet.net>
1997-04-13  0:00           ` Dave Wood
     [not found]             ` <E8pxJ0.I3s@thomsoft.com>
     [not found]               ` <3355E0F2.56E5@aonix.com>
1997-04-18  0:00                 ` David Hanley
1997-04-20  0:00                   ` Nick Roberts
1997-04-14  0:00           ` Stephen Leake
1997-04-14  0:00           ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-04-14  0:00           ` Robert S. White
1997-04-14  0:00             ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-04-15  0:00               ` Robert S. White
     [not found]                 ` <5ivtcu$puv@huron.eel.ufl.edu>
1997-04-16  0:00                   ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-04-16  0:00                     ` Byron
1997-04-16  0:00                       ` John Winters
     [not found]                     ` <5j31dt$o3j@huron.eel.ufl.edu>
1997-04-17  0:00                       ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-04-18  0:00                       ` David Thornley
     [not found]                         ` <338a1835.439086993@news.pacificnet.net>
1997-04-25  0:00                           ` Alan Bowler
     [not found]                     ` <01bc4da9$75237100$f4f582c1@xhv46.dial.pipex.com>
1997-04-21  0:00                       ` Daniel P Hudson
1997-04-21  0:00                         ` Robert I. Eachus
1997-04-12  0:00       ` David Weller
1997-04-13  0:00       ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-04-27  0:00         ` Richard Riehle
1997-04-29  0:00           ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-04-30  0:00             ` Jon S Anthony
1997-05-01  0:00               ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-02  0:00                 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-05-03  0:00                   ` Craig Franck
1997-05-03  0:00                 ` Matthew Givens
1997-05-03  0:00                   ` Robert S. White
1997-04-30  0:00             ` Robert I. Eachus
1997-04-30  0:00               ` Jay Martin
1997-05-01  0:00                 ` Kevin Cline
1997-05-01  0:00                 ` Robert I. Eachus
1997-05-05  0:00                   ` Jay Martin
1997-05-06  0:00                     ` Kevin Cline
1997-05-07  0:00                       ` Robert I. Eachus
1997-04-30  0:00               ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-01  0:00                 ` Robert I. Eachus
1997-05-03  0:00                   ` Student responsability (Was: Any research putting c above ada?) Laurent Gasser
1997-05-03  0:00                     ` John Bode
1997-05-05  0:00                     ` Steven Huang
1997-05-05  0:00                   ` Any research putting c above ada? John Apa
1997-05-06  0:00                     ` Kevin Cline
1997-05-06  0:00                       ` Roy Grimm
1997-05-07  0:00                         ` Kevin Cline
1997-05-07  0:00                           ` Roy Grimm
1997-05-07  0:00                             ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-08  0:00                             ` Kevin Cline
1997-05-08  0:00                               ` Roy Grimm
1997-05-08  0:00                                 ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-09  0:00                                 ` Kevin Cline
1997-05-10  0:00                                   ` Dan Shea
1997-05-11  0:00                                     ` Kevin Cline
1997-05-07  0:00                         ` John Apa
1997-05-08  0:00                           ` Kevin Cline
1997-05-10  0:00                             ` John Apa
1997-05-11  0:00                               ` Kevin Cline
1997-05-14  0:00                                 ` Nick Roberts
1997-05-08  0:00                           ` Roy Grimm
1997-05-08  0:00                       ` Alan Brain
1997-05-07  0:00                     ` Adam Beneschan
1997-05-09  0:00                   ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1997-05-09  0:00                     ` Larry Weiss
1997-05-11  0:00                       ` Kevin Cline
1997-05-11  0:00                         ` Jay Martin
1997-05-12  0:00                           ` Kevin Cline
1997-05-12  0:00                         ` Craig Franck
1997-05-12  0:00                           ` Kevin Cline
1997-05-13  0:00                             ` Craig Franck
1997-05-13  0:00                               ` Jonathan Guthrie
1997-05-14  0:00                                 ` Mathew Hendry
     [not found]                           ` <F4243E31257E3230.1400B453F19F7D1B.A88AC4B6A31D <5l8gf8$2jp@mtinsc05.worldnet.att.net>
1997-05-13  0:00                             ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-13  0:00                               ` Lawrence Kirby
1997-05-14  0:00                               ` T Wheeley
1997-05-15  0:00                               ` Ray Blaak
1997-05-16  0:00                                 ` Alan Brain
1997-05-12  0:00                         ` Robert I. Eachus
1997-05-14  0:00                           ` Kevin Cline
     [not found]                         ` <5lb2mi$3i2@mtinsc03.worldnet.att.net>
1997-05-14  0:00                           ` Jonathan Guthrie
1997-05-14  0:00                             ` Szu-Wen Huang
1997-05-15  0:00                               ` Jonathan Guthrie
     [not found]                             ` <EA8sny.HKJ@thinkage.on.ca>
1997-05-16  0:00                               ` W. Wesley Groleau (Wes)
1997-05-14  0:00                     ` M. Prasad
     [not found]                     ` <rayEA5A7D.932@netcom.com>
1997-05-14  0:00                       ` W. Wesley Groleau (Wes)
1997-05-14  0:00                       ` Steve Jones - JON
1997-05-17  0:00                       ` Robert I. Eachus
1997-04-30  0:00             ` Roy Grimm
1997-04-30  0:00               ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-04-30  0:00                 ` Jay Martin
1997-05-02  0:00                   ` Samuel A. Mize
1997-05-05  0:00                     ` Roy Grimm
1997-05-06  0:00                       ` Robert I. Eachus
1997-05-07  0:00                         ` Jay Martin
1997-05-07  0:00                           ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-08  0:00                             ` Jay Martin
1997-05-08  0:00                           ` Kevin Cline
1997-05-09  0:00                             ` Alan Brain
1997-05-08  0:00                           ` Robert I. Eachus
1997-05-09  0:00                             ` Kevin Cline
1997-05-11  0:00                       ` deafen
1997-05-12  0:00                         ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-12  0:00                         ` Roy Grimm
1997-05-01  0:00                 ` Roy Grimm
1997-05-01  0:00                   ` Jay Martin
1997-05-01  0:00                   ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-02  0:00                     ` Roy Grimm
1997-05-02  0:00                       ` Jon S Anthony
1997-05-05  0:00                         ` Steve Furlong
1997-05-06  0:00                           ` Kevin Cline
1997-05-06  0:00                             ` Jon S Anthony
1997-05-06  0:00                           ` Robert A Duff
1997-05-08  0:00                           ` Lawrence Kirby
1997-05-14  0:00                         ` T Wheeley
1997-05-14  0:00                           ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-10  0:00                   ` Fritz W Feuerbacher
1997-05-11  0:00                     ` Wilbur Streett
1997-05-12  0:00                       ` Kevin Cline
1997-05-20  0:00                       ` T Wheeley
     [not found]       ` <33508283.56dd@aonix.com>
     [not found]         ` <33526280.62b3@gsfc.nasa.gov>
     [not found]           ` <5ivths$pv2@huron.eel.ufl.edu>
1997-04-16  0:00             ` Matthew Givens
     [not found]               ` <m2ragbrmij.fsf@acm.org>
1997-04-20  0:00                 ` Nick Roberts
1997-04-14  0:00   ` Alan Brain
1997-04-17  0:00   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-04-14  0:00 ` Steve Jones - JON
1997-04-14  0:00   ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-04-15  0:00   ` Matthew Givens
     [not found]     ` <335ae79e.55ed@dynamite.com.au>
1997-04-20  0:00       ` Matthew Givens
1997-04-28  0:00         ` Andrew Dunstan
1997-04-29  0:00           ` Matthew Givens
1997-05-06  0:00             ` Andrew Dunstan
1997-05-07  0:00               ` Kevin Cline
1997-05-07  0:00                 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-05-07  0:00                 ` Jeff Carter
1997-05-08  0:00                 ` Robert I. Eachus
1997-05-09  0:00                   ` Kevin Cline
1997-05-09  0:00                     ` John G. Volan
1997-05-11  0:00                       ` Kevin Cline
1997-05-12  0:00                         ` John G. Volan
1997-05-12  0:00                         ` John G. Volan
1997-05-13  0:00                         ` Alan Brain
1997-05-14  0:00                           ` Kevin Cline
1997-05-16  0:00                             ` Alan Brain
1997-05-17  0:00                               ` Kevin Cline
1997-05-17  0:00                                 ` John G. Volan
1997-05-18  0:00                                   ` Kevin Cline
1997-05-18  0:00                                     ` Jon S Anthony
1997-05-18  0:00                                       ` Brian Rogoff
1997-05-19  0:00                                       ` Kevin Cline
1997-05-19  0:00                                         ` Jon S Anthony
1997-05-19  0:00                                     ` John G. Volan
1997-05-20  0:00                                       ` Kevin Cline
1997-05-20  0:00                                         ` Jeff Carter
1997-05-21  0:00                                       ` Alan Brain
1997-05-21  0:00                                       ` Brian Rogoff
1997-05-21  0:00                                         ` STL in Ada95 [was: Any research putting c above ada?] John G. Volan
1997-05-22  0:00                                           ` Brian Rogoff
1997-05-23  0:00                                             ` Iterator Syntax [was: Re: STL in Ada95] Jeff Carter
1997-05-23  0:00                                               ` Michel Gauthier
1997-05-23  0:00                                               ` John G. Volan
1997-05-23  0:00                                               ` Brian Rogoff
1997-05-22  0:00                                           ` STL in Ada95 [was: Any research putting c above ada?] Brian Rogoff
1997-05-23  0:00                                             ` Jon S Anthony
1997-05-24  0:00                                               ` Brian Rogoff
1997-05-17  0:00                               ` Any research putting c above ada? Dale Stanbrough
1997-05-12  0:00                       ` Robert I. Eachus
1997-04-30  0:00           ` Daniel P Hudson
1997-04-30  0:00             ` Adam Beneschan
1997-05-02  0:00               ` Daniel P Hudson
1997-04-20  0:00     ` Alan Brain
     [not found] ` <5j078b$b25$1@NNTP.MsState.Edu>
1997-04-16  0:00   ` Peter Amey
     [not found]     ` <5j31lj$qnk@huron.eel.ufl.edu>
1997-04-24  0:00       ` Suzette Norby
1997-04-25  0:00         ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-04-26  0:00           ` Larry Wissig
1997-04-26  0:00             ` Nick Roberts
1997-04-26  0:00               ` Lawrence Kirby
1997-04-27  0:00                 ` b-see
1997-04-26  0:00             ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-04-28  0:00             ` Jon S Anthony
1997-04-26  0:00           ` Mike Haertel
1997-04-26  0:00             ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-04-27  0:00             ` Nick Roberts
1997-04-28  0:00             ` Istvan.Simon
1997-04-27  0:00           ` Jerry van Dijk
1997-04-25  0:00         ` Craig Franck
1997-04-28  0:00           ` Jon S Anthony
1997-04-29  0:00             ` Andrew Koenig
1997-04-29  0:00               ` Tom Moran
1997-04-30  0:00               ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-04-30  0:00               ` Robert I. Eachus
1997-05-01  0:00                 ` Alan Brain
1997-04-30  0:00               ` Jon S Anthony
1997-05-01  0:00                 ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-04-30  0:00             ` Craig Franck
1997-04-30  0:00               ` Robert I. Eachus [this message]
1997-04-30  0:00                 ` Pat Rogers
1997-05-02  0:00                 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-05-01  0:00               ` Jon S Anthony
1997-04-17  0:00   ` Daniel P Hudson
     [not found]   ` <335458A4.4C1D@worldnet.att.net>
     [not found]     ` <5j416b$hau@mtinsc04.worldnet.att.net>
1997-04-18  0:00       ` Mark & Zurima McKinney
1997-04-19  0:00         ` Craig Franck
1997-04-21  0:00           ` Robert I. Eachus
     [not found]     ` <5j30oa$ia9@bcrkh13.bnr.ca>
     [not found]       ` <3355739E.7B24@pratique.fr>
1997-04-18  0:00         ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-04-23  0:00       ` David Emery
1997-04-17  0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-04-17  0:00 ` Chris Morgan
1997-04-17  0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-04-18  0:00 ` David Emery
1997-04-21  0:00   ` Jim Hyslop
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
1997-04-10  0:00 tmoran
1997-04-11  0:00 ` Richard Krehbiel
1997-04-17  0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-93
1997-05-03  0:00 tmoran
1997-05-03  0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-05-15  0:00 Jon S Anthony
1997-05-15  0:00 ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-15  0:00   ` Jon S Anthony
     [not found]   ` <01bc6189$b074f500$LocalHost@xhv46.dial.pipex.com>
1997-05-16  0:00     ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-16  0:00       ` Jon S Anthony
1997-05-18  0:00         ` Nick Roberts
1997-05-19  0:00         ` Michael Norrish
1997-05-20  0:00           ` Jon S Anthony
1997-05-20  0:00             ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-20  0:00               ` Jon S Anthony
1997-05-20  0:00             ` Michael Norrish
1997-05-20  0:00               ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-20  0:00                 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-05-21  0:00                   ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-05-21  0:00                 ` Craig Franck
1997-05-20  0:00               ` Jon S Anthony
1997-05-20  0:00   ` Les Hazlewood
1997-05-20  0:00     ` Jason A Cunningham
1997-05-21  0:00       ` Stephan Wilms
1997-05-21  0:00         ` Jason A Cunningham
1997-05-16  0:00 ` T Wheeley
1997-05-16  0:00   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-05-16  0:00 Jon S Anthony
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