* Re: Ada UK web pages [not found] <335b3f24.8679026@news.geccs.gecm.com> @ 1997-04-18 0:00 ` Mark Bennison 1997-04-20 0:00 ` Robert Dewar 1997-04-18 0:00 ` Robert Dewar ` (2 subsequent siblings) 3 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread From: Mark Bennison @ 1997-04-18 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) brian.orpin@gecm.com (Brian Orpin) wrote: >Having just come across the Ada UK pages ( http:\\www.adauk.org.uk ) I >was dismayed to find that they used Frames. However, if you go to http:\\www.adauk.org.uk\noframe.htm you can access the pages ( but I guess you knew that already! ). > >I would urge Ada UK to use the standard of the web. > Couldn't agree more. -- Mark Bennison, Technical Consultant, EASAMS Software Systems. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: Ada UK web pages 1997-04-18 0:00 ` Ada UK web pages Mark Bennison @ 1997-04-20 0:00 ` Robert Dewar 1997-04-21 0:00 ` Robert I. Eachus 1997-04-24 0:00 ` Keith Thompson 0 siblings, 2 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Robert Dewar @ 1997-04-20 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) Is there indeed a standard for the Web? If so, can someone quote the BSI or ISO document numbers. I was not aware things had moved that fast. Or were you using standard in an informal sense (I assumed not, because the original thread was referring to the fact that Ada is formally standardized). ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: Ada UK web pages 1997-04-20 0:00 ` Robert Dewar @ 1997-04-21 0:00 ` Robert I. Eachus 1997-04-24 0:00 ` Keith Thompson 1 sibling, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Robert I. Eachus @ 1997-04-21 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) In article <dewar.861547370@merv> dewar@merv.cs.nyu.edu (Robert Dewar) writes: > Is there indeed a standard for the Web? If so, can someone quote > the BSI or ISO document numbers. I was not aware things had moved > that fast. Or were you using standard in an informal sense (I > assumed not, because the original thread was referring to the fact > that Ada is formally standardized). Actually, the Web like most of the Internet depends on RFCs. I'll look up the RFC for HTML 3.2 if you are interested. Now to the hard question are RFCs more or less standard than ISO standards? The RFC process results in many RFCs that are superceded or ignored. (RFC stands for request for comment.) But there are others like SMTP (Simple Mail Transport Protocol), MIME (Multimedia Internet Mail Extensions), and TCP/IP transmission control protocol/Internet protocol, which are the basis for all of the Internet and lots of stuff beyond it. -- Robert I. Eachus with Standard_Disclaimer; use Standard_Disclaimer; function Message (Text: in Clever_Ideas) return Better_Ideas is... ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: Ada UK web pages 1997-04-20 0:00 ` Robert Dewar 1997-04-21 0:00 ` Robert I. Eachus @ 1997-04-24 0:00 ` Keith Thompson 1 sibling, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Keith Thompson @ 1997-04-24 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) Robert Dewar <dewar@merv.cs.nyu.edu> wrote: > Brian said > > <<HTML 3.2 reference document as released on the 14 Jan 97 may be found > at http://www.w3.org/pub/WWW/TR/REC-html32.html . This is not ISO or > BSI but it is produced by the standards group of the Web.>> > > OK, fine, that's what I thought (that there is no standard in the legal > sense for the Web, this is just an "industry" standard). The distinction > is a significant one, especially since the original message was trying > to draw a connection between the Ada "standard" and the Web "standard", > but in fact they are standardized in quite a different meaning of the > word -- and what is important is that Ada has a legal standard. I am > not saying that industry "standards" are not important, they are often > quite important, just that we have two very different meanings of the > word, which should not be confused. But ISO, ANSI, and BSI are all non-governmental organizations. I'm not 100% sure about BSI, but the ISO and ANSI web sites state this very clearly. See: <http://www.iso.ch> <http://www.ansi.org> <http://www.bsi.org.uk> ISO is admittedly more widely recognized as a standards body than, say, W3C or even IEEE, but I don't see any *fundamental* sense in which an ISO standard is more "legal" than a industry standard from some other organization. Ada 83 was also a U.S. military standard as well as an ANSI/ISO standard, but I don't think Ada 95 is. (On the other hand, even W3C refers to HTML 3.2 as a "Recommendation" rather than a standard.) -- Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) kst@sd.aonix.com <http://www.aonix.com> <*> TeleSo^H^H^H^H^H^H Alsy^H^H^H^H Thomson Softw^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H Aonix 5040 Shoreham Place, San Diego, CA, USA, 92122-5989 "Humor is such a subjective thing." -- Cartagia ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: Ada UK web pages [not found] <335b3f24.8679026@news.geccs.gecm.com> 1997-04-18 0:00 ` Ada UK web pages Mark Bennison @ 1997-04-18 0:00 ` Robert Dewar 1997-04-22 0:00 ` Keith Thompson [not found] ` <335c65c2.1055595@news.geccs.gecm.com> 1997-04-21 0:00 ` Keith Thompson 1997-04-21 0:00 ` Kevin Rigotti 3 siblings, 2 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Robert Dewar @ 1997-04-18 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) Brian says <<Ada's strength lies in the fact that it is a standardised language and that compilers must be validated against that standard. The Web has a standard in HTML3.2. Frames are not part of that standard>> I was unaware that HTML3.2 was standardized. Can someone give the proper reference to either the BSI or ISO standard that is referred to here? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: Ada UK web pages 1997-04-18 0:00 ` Robert Dewar @ 1997-04-22 0:00 ` Keith Thompson [not found] ` <335c65c2.1055595@news.geccs.gecm.com> 1 sibling, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Keith Thompson @ 1997-04-22 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) In <dewar.861370127@merv> dewar@merv.cs.nyu.edu (Robert Dewar) writes: > I was unaware that HTML3.2 was standardized. Can someone give the proper > reference to either the BSI or ISO standard that is referred to here? HTML 3.2 has been endorsed ("as a W3C Recommendation") by the World Wide Web Consortium. For more information, see <http://www.w3.org>, particularly <http://www.w3.org/pub/WWW/Press/HTML32-REC-PR.html>. It's not written in stone the way ISO standards are (8-)}), but W3C's membership does include most or all of the major web server and browser vendors. -- Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) kst@sd.aonix.com <http://www.aonix.com> <*> TeleSo^H^H^H^H^H^H Alsy^H^H^H^H Thomson Softw^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H Aonix 5040 Shoreham Place, San Diego, CA, USA, 92122-5989 "Humor is such a subjective thing." -- Cartagia ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
[parent not found: <335c65c2.1055595@news.geccs.gecm.com>]
* Re: Ada UK web pages [not found] ` <335c65c2.1055595@news.geccs.gecm.com> @ 1997-04-23 0:00 ` Robert Dewar [not found] ` <3360643c.3052921@news.geccs.gecm.com> 0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread From: Robert Dewar @ 1997-04-23 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) Brian said <<HTML 3.2 reference document as released on the 14 Jan 97 may be found at http://www.w3.org/pub/WWW/TR/REC-html32.html . This is not ISO or BSI but it is produced by the standards group of the Web.>> OK, fine, that's what I thought (that there is no standard in the legal sense for the Web, this is just an "industry" standard). The distinction is a significant one, especially since the original message was trying to draw a connection between the Ada "standard" and the Web "standard", but in fact they are standardized in quite a different meaning of the word -- and what is important is that Ada has a legal standard. I am not saying that industry "standards" are not important, they are often quite important, just that we have two very different meanings of the word, which should not be confused. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
[parent not found: <3360643c.3052921@news.geccs.gecm.com>]
* Re: Ada UK web pages [not found] ` <3360643c.3052921@news.geccs.gecm.com> @ 1997-04-25 0:00 ` Robert Dewar 0 siblings, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Robert Dewar @ 1997-04-25 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) Brian says <<What exactly is the 'legal standard' of Ada? AFAIK it is just a fact of getting a compiler approved. There is no restriction on a vendor producing a non-compliant compiler as long as he doesn't say it is. That is semantics and squirming out of the issue to which you haven't addressed. One of the strengths of Ada is its portability. The use of FRAMES on the Ada UK site is a very non-portable construct. So it smacks of 'do as I say not as I do'.>> There are at least two legal standards for Ada, the ANSI standard and the ISO standard, and these have special legal standing in a number of situations, e.g. in the preference rules for DoD technologies. There is a big difference between legal standards of this type, and the informal use of the word standard in the way you used it in connection with the Web. I have no interest in what the Ada UK site does, and regad that particular issue as a tempest in a teapot, but I do think the distinction between the two meanings of the word "standard" is important. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: Ada UK web pages [not found] <335b3f24.8679026@news.geccs.gecm.com> 1997-04-18 0:00 ` Ada UK web pages Mark Bennison 1997-04-18 0:00 ` Robert Dewar @ 1997-04-21 0:00 ` Keith Thompson 1997-04-21 0:00 ` Kevin Rigotti 3 siblings, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Keith Thompson @ 1997-04-21 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) In <335b3f24.8679026@news.geccs.gecm.com> brian.orpin@gecm.com (Brian Orpin) writes: > Having just come across the Ada UK pages ( http:\\www.adauk.org.uk ) I > was dismayed to find that they used Frames. I agree. (Speaking of standards, the "\\" should be "//".) However, they do provide a non-frames version of their web page. Just click on the "Browse with no frames" icon or go to <http://www.adauk.org.uk/noframe.htm>. -- Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) kst@sd.aonix.com <http://www.aonix.com> <*> TeleSo^H^H^H^H^H^H Alsy^H^H^H^H Thomson Softw^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H Aonix 5040 Shoreham Place, San Diego, CA, USA, 92122-5989 "Humor is such a subjective thing." -- Cartagia ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: Ada UK web pages [not found] <335b3f24.8679026@news.geccs.gecm.com> ` (2 preceding siblings ...) 1997-04-21 0:00 ` Keith Thompson @ 1997-04-21 0:00 ` Kevin Rigotti 3 siblings, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Kevin Rigotti @ 1997-04-21 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) To: brian.orpin Brian Orpin wrote: > > Having just come across the Ada UK pages ( http:\\www.adauk.org.uk ) I > was dismayed to find that they used Frames. Try http://www.adauk.org.uk/noframe.htm To be honest I didn't find the site particularly wonderful, but I guess everything has to start somewhere. Kevin ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~1997-04-25 0:00 UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 10+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
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[not found] <335b3f24.8679026@news.geccs.gecm.com>
1997-04-18 0:00 ` Ada UK web pages Mark Bennison
1997-04-20 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-04-21 0:00 ` Robert I. Eachus
1997-04-24 0:00 ` Keith Thompson
1997-04-18 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-04-22 0:00 ` Keith Thompson
[not found] ` <335c65c2.1055595@news.geccs.gecm.com>
1997-04-23 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
[not found] ` <3360643c.3052921@news.geccs.gecm.com>
1997-04-25 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1997-04-21 0:00 ` Keith Thompson
1997-04-21 0:00 ` Kevin Rigotti
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