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From: pattis@cs.washington.edu (Richard Pattis)
Subject: Re: Ariane 5 failure
Date: 1996/09/27
Date: 1996-09-27T00:00:00+00:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <DyE738.Hzz@beaver.cs.washington.edu> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 1996Sep27.023246.18774@jarvis.cs.toronto.edu


As an instructor in CS1/CS2, this discussion interests me. I try to talk about
designing robust, reusable code, and actually have students reuse code that
I have written as well as some that they (and their peers) have written.
The Ariane falure adds a new view to robustness, having to do with future
use of code, and mathematical proof vs "engineering" considerations..

Should a software engineer remove safety checks if he/she can prove - based on
physical limitations, like a rocket not exceeding a certain speed - that they
are unnecessary. Or, knowing that his/her code will be reused (in an unknown
context, by someone who is not so skilled, and will probably not think to
redo the proof) should such checks not be optimized out? What rule of thumb
should be used to decide (e.g., what if the proof assumes the rocket speed
will not exceed that of light)? Since software operates in the real world (not
the world of mathematics) should mathematical proofs about code always yield
to engineering rules of thumb to expect the unexpected.

  "In the Russian theatre, every 5 years an unloaded gun accidentally 
   discharges and kills someone; every 20 years a broom does."

What is the rule of thumb about when should mathematics be believed? 

  As to saving SPEED by disabling the range checks: did the code not meet its
speed requirements with range checks on? Only in this case would I have turned
them off. Does "real time" mean fast enough or as fast as possible? To
misquote Einstein, "Code should run as fast as necessary, but no faster...."
since something is always traded away to increase speed.

If I were to try to create a lecture on this topic, what other similar
failures should I know about (beside the legendary Venus probe)?
Your comments?

Rich




  reply	other threads:[~1996-09-27  0:00 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 105+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <agrapsDy4oJH.29G@netcom.com>
1996-09-25  0:00 ` Ariane 5 failure @@           robin
1996-09-25  0:00   ` Michel OLAGNON
1996-09-25  0:00     ` Byron Kauffman
1996-09-25  0:00       ` A. Grant
1996-09-25  0:00         ` Ken Garlington
1996-09-26  0:00         ` Sandy McPherson
1996-09-26  0:00         ` Byron Kauffman
1996-09-27  0:00           ` A. Grant
1996-09-25  0:00     ` Chris Morgan
1996-09-25  0:00   ` Bob Kitzberger
1996-09-26  0:00     ` Ronald Kunne
1996-09-26  0:00       ` Matthew Heaney
1996-09-27  0:00         ` Ronald Kunne
1996-09-27  0:00           ` Lawrence Foard
1996-10-04  0:00             ` @@           robin
1996-09-28  0:00           ` Ken Garlington
1996-09-28  0:00             ` Ken Garlington
1996-09-29  0:00           ` Alan Brain
1996-09-29  0:00             ` Robert A Duff
1996-09-30  0:00               ` Wayne L. Beavers
1996-10-01  0:00                 ` Ken Garlington
1996-10-01  0:00                   ` Wayne L. Beavers
1996-10-01  0:00                     ` Ken Garlington
1996-10-02  0:00                       ` Sandy McPherson
1996-10-03  0:00                 ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-10-01  0:00             ` Ken Garlington
1996-09-27  0:00         ` Wayne Hayes
1996-09-27  0:00           ` Richard Pattis [this message]
1996-09-29  0:00             ` Chris McKnight
1996-09-29  0:00               ` Real-world education (was: Ariane 5 failure) Michael Feldman
1996-09-29  0:00             ` Ariane 5 failure Alan Brain
1996-09-29  0:00             ` Dann Corbit
1996-10-01  0:00             ` Ken Garlington
1996-09-28  0:00         ` Ken Garlington
1996-09-27  0:00       ` Ken Garlington
1996-09-27  0:00       ` Alan Brain
1996-09-28  0:00         ` Ken Garlington
1996-09-29  0:00       ` Louis K. Scheffer
1996-09-27  0:00   ` John McCabe
1996-10-01  0:00     ` Michael Dworetsky
1996-10-04  0:00       ` Steve Bell
1996-10-07  0:00         ` Ken Garlington
1996-10-09  0:00         ` @@           robin
1996-10-09  0:00           ` Steve O'Neill
1996-10-12  0:00             ` Alan Brain
1996-10-04  0:00     ` @@           robin
1996-10-04  0:00       ` Joseph C Williams
1996-10-06  0:00         ` Wayne Hayes
1996-10-04  0:00       ` Michel OLAGNON
1996-10-09  0:00         ` @@           robin
1996-10-17  0:00       ` Ralf Tilch
1996-10-17  0:00         ` Ravi Sundaram
1996-10-22  0:00           ` shmuel
1996-10-22  0:00             ` Jim Carr
1996-10-24  0:00               ` hayim
1996-10-25  0:00                 ` Michel OLAGNON
1996-10-25  0:00                 ` Ken Garlington
1996-10-01  0:00 Marin David Condic, 407.796.8997, M/S 731-93
1996-10-02  0:00 ` Matthew Heaney
1996-10-04  0:00   ` Ken Garlington
1996-10-05  0:00     ` Robert Dewar
1996-10-06  0:00       ` Keith Thompson
1996-10-10  0:00       ` Ken Garlington
1996-10-14  0:00       ` Matthew Heaney
1996-10-15  0:00         ` Robert Dewar
1996-10-16  0:00         ` Ken Garlington
1996-10-18  0:00           ` Keith Thompson
1996-10-18  0:00             ` Samuel T. Harris
1996-10-21  0:00               ` Ken Garlington
1996-10-18  0:00             ` Ken Garlington
1996-10-23  0:00           ` robin
1996-10-02  0:00 ` Robert I. Eachus
1996-10-02  0:00   ` Ken Garlington
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
1996-10-01  0:00 Marin David Condic, 407.796.8997, M/S 731-93
1996-10-02  0:00 ` Alan Brain
1996-10-02  0:00   ` Ken Garlington
1996-10-02  0:00     ` Matthew Heaney
1996-10-04  0:00       ` Robert S. White
1996-10-05  0:00         ` Alan Brain
1996-10-06  0:00           ` Robert S. White
1996-10-05  0:00         ` Robert Dewar
1996-10-03  0:00     ` Alan Brain
1996-10-04  0:00       ` Ken Garlington
1996-10-01  0:00 Marin David Condic, 407.796.8997, M/S 731-93
1996-10-02  0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1996-10-03  0:00 Marin David Condic, 407.796.8997, M/S 731-93
1996-10-03  0:00 Marin David Condic, 407.796.8997, M/S 731-93
1996-10-03  0:00 Marin David Condic, 407.796.8997, M/S 731-93
1996-10-14  0:00 Marin David Condic, 407.796.8997, M/S 731-93
1996-10-15  0:00 ` Robert I. Eachus
1996-10-15  0:00   ` Robert Dewar
1996-10-16  0:00     ` Michael F Brenner
1996-10-16  0:00       ` Robert Dewar
1996-10-23  0:00 ` robin
1996-10-16  0:00 Marin David Condic, 407.796.8997, M/S 731-93
1996-10-18  0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1996-10-19  0:00   ` Frank Manning
1996-10-21  0:00     ` Norman H. Cohen
1996-10-21  0:00 Marin David Condic, 407.796.8997, M/S 731-93
1996-10-22  0:00 ` Adam Beneschan
1996-10-28  0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-93
1996-10-29  0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1996-11-08  0:00   ` robin
1996-10-28  0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-93
1996-10-31  0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-93
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