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From: engebret@sg2.cr.usgs.gov (Chris Engebretson)
Subject: Re: Hungarian notation
Date: 1996/06/11
Date: 1996-06-11T00:00:00+00:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <DsuJIK.Dyz@igsrsparc2.er.usgs.gov> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 4pk29i$nhj@tpd.dsccc.com


In article <4pk29i$nhj@tpd.dsccc.com>, kcline@sun132.spd.dsccc.com (Kevin Cline) writes:

|> Actually, I think Mr. Silverman knows exactly what student code looks like:
|> It looks a lot like professional code.  Or should I say that a lot of
|> professionally written code looks like 2nd-year student code?
|> 
|> Maybe we should have a contest to find the worst examples of professionally
|> produced C++ code?  

Apologies in advance if I'm going way off-base here. :-)

In my place of work, at least, the worst examples of professionally produced
code (independent of the language that it's written in) usually don't come 
from coders with degrees in Computer Science.  Rather, they come from people
like remote sensing scientists and electrical engineers.  These individuals
have the technical know-how to develop algorithms and justify their correct-
ness, but they tend to have difficulty expressing them eloquently and
efficiently when it comes down to actually writing the code.  Comments are
sparse if not totally nonexistant, variable names are not descriptive, and
"goto"s are a dime-a-dozen.

As I often have occasion to maintain code like this, I gain a deeper
appreciation for some of my college programming-oriented classes, because
they serve a dual purpose.  Not only do they introduce you to and allow you
to get your hands dirty with various topics and theories (i.e., compiler
fundamentals and language translation), but by requiring you to write several
thousand lines of code to successfully complete the class, they also make it
crystal-clear how important such things as efficiency, structure, and
documentation really are.  Most of the scientists I know who play a dual role
as a programmer really haven't had this kind of exposure; in fact, with
regards to C/FORTRAN, a good number of them are self-taught.  As a result,
the code that they produce works, but not as well as it probably could (and
should!), and it's certainly not as clear as it should be.

It's been my experience and observation that our academic community is
beginning to require more computer science "techie" courses from its 
scientific and engineering students.  And this is a Good Thing, because a
good deal of the world's existing base of code was not written by individuals
with strong Computer Science backgrounds, and that's not going to change
anytime in the near future.  Since these scientists and engineers will
inevitably be asked to express themselves in the form of a high-level
computer language, this experience will prove invaluable, both to themselves
and to the individual(s) whose job it is to maintain that code.

PS: Of course, this is not to say that a scientist with little background in
Computer Science can't write truly excellent code, and I'm certainly not
saying that when a student graduates with a degree in Computer Science, he/she
automatically will write wonderful programs, because we all know _that_ isn't
true.  But the old saying holds true: Practice makes perfect.

--
/*-------------------------------------------------------------
Chris Engebretson // CSB - SED - Scientific Systems Development
United States Geological Survey   -   National Mapping Division
Mundt Federal Building, USGS EROS Data Center
Sioux Falls, SD 57198  http://edcwww.cr.usgs.gov/eros-home.html
email: engebret@edcserver1.cr.usgs.gov      phone: 605-594-6829
-------------------------------------------------------------*/




  parent reply	other threads:[~1996-06-11  0:00 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 227+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <4adem2$b5s@mercury.IntNet.net>
     [not found] ` <4ahka7$o9m@inrou.erno.de>
1996-05-13  0:00   ` Hungarian notation Roger Merritt
1996-05-14  0:00     ` Keith Whittingham
1996-05-14  0:00       ` Dave Mikesell
1996-05-14  0:00       ` Peter Seebach
1996-05-14  0:00         ` Pete Becker
     [not found]           ` <4ndb2j$1p0q@uni.library.ucla.edu>
1996-05-16  0:00             ` Scott
1996-05-16  0:00               ` Giuliano Carlini
1996-05-18  0:00                 ` Warren Young
1996-05-16  0:00             ` Steve Branam
1996-05-16  0:00             ` Mark Chu-Carroll
1996-05-16  0:00               ` Jay Martin
1996-05-17  0:00                 ` Scott
1996-05-23  0:00                 ` G.O.Visser
1996-05-16  0:00         ` Matt Kennel
1996-05-14  0:00       ` Dr S.J. Harris
1996-05-15  0:00         ` Gerolf Wendland
1996-05-16  0:00           ` mAg
1996-05-17  0:00             ` Arne W Flones
1996-05-21  0:00               ` Norman L. Reitzel   
1996-05-21  0:00                 ` Bob Rodgers
1996-05-22  0:00                   ` Matt Kennel
1996-05-23  0:00                     ` Steve Willer
1996-05-23  0:00                       ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-05-23  0:00                         ` Steve Willer
1996-05-23  0:00                     ` Bob Rodgers
1996-05-23  0:00                       ` Peter Seebach
1996-05-22  0:00                   ` Michael Furman
1996-05-22  0:00                   ` Slander (was: Hungarian notation) Graham Perkins
1996-05-23  0:00                     ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-05-24  0:00                       ` Tucker Taft
1996-05-23  0:00                   ` Hungarian notation Peter Moylan
1996-05-21  0:00                 ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-05-22  0:00                   ` Peter Moylan
1996-05-23  0:00                     ` Robert Dewar
1996-05-23  0:00                       ` Steve Willer
1996-05-28  0:00                         ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-05-29  0:00                           ` Kevin Cline
1996-05-24  0:00                       ` Jeff Dege
1996-05-24  0:00                       ` Kevin Cline
1996-05-25  0:00                         ` Steve Willer
1996-05-25  0:00                           ` Hungarian notation: the thread of choice for consummate boors The Right Reverend Colin James III
1996-05-27  0:00                             ` Ken Nicolson
     [not found]                             ` <HFsHoD96w165w@bwalk.dm.com>
1996-05-28  0:00                               ` Jon Hornstein
1996-06-05  0:00                         ` Hungarian notation Ralph Silverman
1996-06-06  0:00                           ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-06-06  0:00                           ` James McKim
1996-06-07  0:00                             ` Ralph Silverman
1996-05-26  0:00                       ` Warren Young
1996-05-23  0:00                     ` Andy Ho-Fan Chan
1996-05-23  0:00                       ` Robert Dewar
1996-05-24  0:00                         ` Robert A Duff
1996-05-28  0:00                           ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-05-28  0:00                             ` Janus
1996-05-28  0:00                             ` Jeff Dege
1996-05-29  0:00                             ` Chris Kuan
1996-05-29  0:00                               ` Bob Rodgers
1996-05-30  0:00                                 ` Chris Kuan
1996-05-29  0:00                             ` Michael Furman
1996-05-31  0:00                               ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-05-31  0:00                                 ` Commenting (was Re: Hungarian notation) Alan Bowler
1996-05-31  0:00                                   ` Robert Dewar
1996-06-03  0:00                                     ` Ken Garlington
1996-06-01  0:00                                 ` Hungarian notation Warren Young
1996-06-01  0:00                                 ` Steve Willer
1996-06-03  0:00                                   ` Warren Young
1996-05-31  0:00                             ` Will Rose
1996-06-05  0:00                               ` Ralph Silverman
1996-06-07  0:00                                 ` Michael Furman
1996-06-01  0:00                             ` Heinz Hemken
1996-06-02  0:00                               ` Jeff Dege
1996-06-02  0:00                               ` Matt Kennel
1996-06-05  0:00                               ` Ralph Silverman
1996-06-06  0:00                                 ` Jeff Dege
1996-05-24  0:00                         ` Bob Rodgers
1996-05-27  0:00                       ` Peter Moylan
1996-05-27  0:00                         ` Jeff Dege
1996-05-27  0:00                           ` The Amorphous Mass
1996-05-28  0:00                             ` Jeff Dege
1996-05-28  0:00                               ` The Amorphous Mass
1996-05-29  0:00                               ` Comments was: " Bob Lang 3P21 x3172
1996-05-30  0:00                                 ` Kevin Cline
     [not found]                           ` <4odgjh$6o@carrera.intergate.bc.ca>
1996-05-28  0:00                             ` try to run this! - try_me.exe [3/4] Otmar Conradus
1996-05-28  0:00                       ` Hungarian notation Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-05-31  0:00                         ` The Last Word on Comments (was Re: Hungarian notation) Clark L. Coleman
1996-06-03  0:00                           ` Robert A Duff
1996-06-13  0:00                             ` Kevin D. Quitt
1996-06-13  0:00                               ` Richard Riehle
1996-06-15  0:00                                 ` Train
1996-06-18  0:00                                 ` Sandy McPherson
1996-06-18  0:00                                   ` David Zink
1996-06-19  0:00                                     ` Michael Furman
1996-06-20  0:00                                       ` Robert Dewar
1996-06-23  0:00                                         ` David Zink
1996-06-23  0:00                                           ` Robert Dewar
1996-06-28  0:00                                         ` Ralph Silverman
1996-06-28  0:00                                           ` Robert Dewar
1996-07-11  0:00                                             ` Ralph Silverman
1996-07-11  0:00                                               ` Robert Dewar
1996-07-12  0:00                                               ` steidl
1996-07-12  0:00                                                 ` Robert Dewar
1996-07-12  0:00                                                 ` Peter Seebach
1996-06-29  0:00                                           ` Lawrence Kirby
1996-06-29  0:00                                           ` steidl
1996-06-20  0:00                                   ` The Last Word on Comments (was Re: Hun Ian Ward
1996-06-05  0:00                           ` The Last Word on Comments (was Re: Hungarian notation) Peter Moylan
1996-06-05  0:00                             ` Mike Fulton
1996-06-05  0:00                               ` Shane Badham
1996-06-13  0:00                                 ` Steve Sobol
1996-06-14  0:00                                   ` Re-designing CS (long) (Was: Re: The Last Word on Comments) Warren Young
1996-06-21  0:00                                   ` Re-designing CS (long) Warren Young
1996-06-24  0:00                                     ` Brian J. Quandt
1996-06-05  0:00                               ` The Last Word on Comments (was Re: Hungarian notation) Steve Howard
1996-06-06  0:00                                 ` Jeff Dege
1996-06-06  0:00                               ` Bob Lang 3P21 x3172
1996-06-08  0:00                             ` Bill Hay
1996-06-11  0:00                               ` Derek Lee Beatty
1996-06-11  0:00                           ` Darius Blasbans
1996-06-11  0:00                           ` Darius Blasbans
1996-06-11  0:00                           ` Darius Blasbans
1996-06-11  0:00                           ` Darius Blasbans
1996-06-11  0:00                           ` Darius Blasbans
1996-06-11  0:00                             ` Kevin J. Weise
1996-06-13  0:00                               ` Kevin D. Quitt
1996-06-13  0:00                               ` Kevin Cline
1996-06-12  0:00                             ` Robert Dewar
1996-06-17  0:00                               ` James McKim
1996-06-18  0:00                                 ` Robert Dewar
1996-06-06  0:00                       ` Hungarian notation Sam Hunting
1996-06-06  0:00                       ` Ralph Silverman
1996-06-06  0:00                         ` David Hopkins
1996-06-07  0:00                         ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-06-07  0:00                           ` Steve Willer
1996-06-10  0:00                             ` Michael Furman
1996-06-12  0:00                               ` Warren Young
1996-06-07  0:00                         ` Hungarian notation (an aside) Bob Lang 3P21 x3172
1996-06-11  0:00                       ` I wish it was "The Last Word on Comments (was Re: Hungarian notation)" Blair MacIntyre
1996-06-03  0:00                     ` Hungarian notation Norman H. Cohen
1996-06-10  0:00                 ` Ralph Silverman
1996-05-18  0:00             ` Richard Riehle
1996-05-23  0:00             ` James Kanze US/ESC 60/3/141 #40763
1996-05-23  0:00               ` Paul J. Kossick
1996-05-25  0:00                 ` Raoul De Kezel
1996-05-23  0:00             ` Robert I. Eachus
1996-05-23  0:00             ` Laurent Guerby
1996-05-23  0:00               ` Please keep Hungarian notation thread OUT of comp.lang.modula3 Tim Mann
1996-06-05  0:00             ` Hungarian notation Ralph Silverman
1996-06-05  0:00               ` jthorpe
1996-06-06  0:00               ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-06-07  0:00                 ` Chris Kuan
1996-06-07  0:00                 ` Ralph Silverman
1996-06-07  0:00                   ` The Amorphous Mass
1996-06-10  0:00                   ` Michael Furman
1996-06-11  0:00                   ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-06-11  0:00                     ` Will Rose
1996-06-11  0:00                     ` Kevin Cline
1996-06-11  0:00                       ` Ralph Silverman
1996-06-11  0:00                       ` Chris Engebretson [this message]
1996-06-12  0:00                       ` Bob Rodgers
1996-06-12  0:00                         ` Matt Kennel
1996-06-13  0:00                           ` Jeff Dege
1996-06-13  0:00                           ` Giuliano Carlini
1996-06-22  0:00                       ` Richard Green
1996-06-05  0:00           ` Ralph Silverman
1996-05-16  0:00       ` Dave Toland
1996-05-21  0:00       ` mAg
1996-05-21  0:00         ` Mark A Biggar
1996-05-21  0:00           ` slary61
1996-05-21  0:00         ` Bob Lang 3P21 x3172
1996-05-21  0:00         ` Peter Seebach
1996-05-23  0:00           ` Steve Willer
1996-05-23  0:00             ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-05-23  0:00               ` Robert Dewar
1996-05-28  0:00                 ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-05-23  0:00               ` Train
1996-05-23  0:00                 ` jeffos2
1996-05-23  0:00               ` Bob Rodgers
1996-05-23  0:00                 ` Bob Kitzberger
1996-05-23  0:00             ` Robert Dewar
1996-05-24  0:00               ` Steve Willer
1996-05-24  0:00               ` slary61
1996-05-24  0:00                 ` Ian Ward
1996-05-24  0:00                 ` Jos A. Horsmeier
1996-05-26  0:00                   ` Richard Riehle
1996-05-27  0:00                     ` Warren Young
1996-06-03  0:00                     ` Eva
1996-05-28  0:00                   ` Paul D. DeRocco
1996-05-24  0:00                 ` Jeff Dege
1996-05-24  0:00                 ` Dave Toland
1996-05-24  0:00                 ` Jerry Kuch
1996-05-27  0:00                 ` Norman L. Reitzel   
1996-05-27  0:00                   ` Matt Kennel
1996-05-28  0:00                 ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-05-28  0:00                   ` Jay Martin
1996-05-29  0:00                     ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-06-01  0:00                     ` Michael Feldman
1996-05-29  0:00                 ` AJ Musgrove
1996-06-05  0:00                 ` Ralph Silverman
1996-06-06  0:00                 ` Ralph Silverman
1996-05-23  0:00             ` Peter Seebach
1996-05-24  0:00         ` Oleg Kagan
1996-06-05  0:00           ` Ralph Silverman
1996-05-14  0:00     ` David Priest
1996-05-14  0:00     ` The Right Reverend Colin James III
1996-05-15  0:00       ` Graham Perkins
1996-05-15  0:00         ` Peter Seebach
1996-05-16  0:00           ` Pete Becker
1996-05-23  0:00     ` James Kanze US/ESC 60/3/141 #40763
1996-05-28  0:00     ` Homonnai Misi
1996-05-28  0:00     ` Brian Rogoff
1996-05-20  0:00   ` James Kanze US/ESC 60/3/141 #40763
1996-05-20  0:00     ` Tom Wheeley
1996-05-23  0:00     ` Steve Willer
1996-05-22  0:00   ` James Kanze US/ESC 60/3/141 #40763
1996-05-23  0:00   ` James Kanze US/ESC 60/3/141 #40763
1996-05-23  0:00     ` Richard Kenner
1996-06-01  0:00   ` Jim Kingdon
1996-06-10  0:00 Bob Crispen
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
1996-05-15  0:00 Bob Crispen
     [not found] <30C40F77.53B5@swsbbs.com>
     [not found] ` <4cd8fc$oud@news.manawatu.gen.nz>
1996-01-08  0:00   ` Joachim Durchholz
     [not found] ` <marnoldDJEvtJ.1Lx@netcom.com>
     [not found]   ` <4aleun$jlk@ns.RezoNet.NET>
     [not found]     ` <marnoldDJMDBG.CFz@netcom.com>
     [not found]       ` <4asnkr$7b0@solutions.solon.com>
     [not found]         ` <4ath75$e7i@barnacle.iol.ie>
     [not found]           ` <4b4kij$svt@news.microsoft.com>
     [not found]             ` <dewar.819489496@schonberg>
1996-01-08  0:00               ` Michael Feathers
     [not found]               ` <4bd <4cne0e$1020@seminole.gate.net>
1996-01-08  0:00                 ` Bob Kitzberger
1996-01-08  0:00                 ` Adam Beneschan
     [not found] ` <30EF0415.6FE1@tus.ssi1.com>
     [not found]   ` <1996Jan7.045815.8676@ohstpy>
     [not found]     ` <4cpb00$nqk@news.xmission.com>
1996-01-08  0:00       ` Michael Feathers
1996-01-08  0:00         ` vancleef
1996-01-09  0:00         `  Todd Knarr 
1996-01-09  0:00           ` Michael Feathers
     [not found]       ` <hawkfish-0801960904580001@blv-pm3-ip24.halcyon.com>
1996-01-09  0:00         `  Todd Knarr 
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