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From: donh@syd.csa.com.au (Don Harrison)
Subject: Re: Real OO
Date: 1996/04/04
Date: 1996-04-04T00:00:00+00:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <DpBw9w.Mru@assip.csasyd.oz> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 65lDeVZF3RB@herold.franken.de

Norman wrote (responding to Joachim):

:> The results
:> presented by Calder and Grunwald in their 1994 POPL paper are different.
:> Among other things, they measured:
:>
:>    1. the percentage of indirect function calls executed during their
:>       experiments that invoked methods that were never overridden
:>       (a condition that it is, in principle, straightforward to detect
:>       at link time, but not sooner)
:>
:>    2. the percentage of indirect function calls executed during their
:>       experiments at call sites from which only one target was invoked
:>       during THAT execution of the program
:>
:> ...
:>
:> Calder and
:> Grunwald describe Measurement 2 as an upper bound on the number of
:> dynamic calls that could be turned into static calls by powerful
:> interprocedural optimizations, and Measurement 1 as the lower bound we
:> would expect of such optimizations, since that much improvement can be
:> achieved even by a naive interprocedural optimization.  The mean values,
:> over the programs they measured, were 31.6% for Measurement 1 and 66.3%
:> for Measurement 2, a far cry from your Booch's 80%.

To get a real idea of (theoretical) relative performance of dynamic binding
compared to static binding, you need to know:

1) What is the relative performance of indirect calls as a fraction of the 
performance of direct calls. Are they 50% as efficient?, 40%?, 60%?, 70%?.

2) Are the above statistics (for C++?) the same for Eiffel and Ada?

If we assume the statistics hold for Eiffel and Ada (which I wouldn't care to), 
the average relative performance of an optimised dynamic call compared with a 
statically bound call might be given by:

%P_db_to_sb = ( (%_opt * 1) + ( (100 - %_opt) * %P_ind) ) / 100

where 
  - %_opt is the percentage of dynamic calls that are optimised into static calls
  - %P_ind is the percentage relative performance of an indirect call compared
       to a direct call.

This gives the following table of values for %P_db_to_sb:

         %_opt |  32  |  40  |  50  |  60  |  66
%P_ind         | 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
40             |  59  |  64  |  70  |  76  |  79
50             |  66  |  70  |  75  |  80  |  83
60             |  73  |  76  |  80  |  84  |  86
70             |  80  |  82  |  85  |  88  |  90
80             |  86  |  88  |  90  |  92  |  93

Has anyone got any reliable statistics on %P_ind?
Are any Eiifel vendors willing to offer values for %_opt?

Note that this IS NOT an indication of relative performance of Eiffel to Ada.
The statistics would apply equally well to both languages for equivalent code.

Also, performance compared with complete static binding would be better than
this because it excludes frozen declarations.

-----
Hardware is out of my depth but what I'm wondering is whether the hardware could
optimise by determining the indirection ahead of time so that the indirect call 
is effectively reduced to a direct one. If this were possible for 100% of calls 
(which I doubt), there would be no performance penalty for dynamic binding.

Don.








  reply	other threads:[~1996-04-04  0:00 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 218+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <4id031$cf9@dayuc.dayton.saic.com>
1996-03-18  0:00 ` Real OO Norman H. Cohen
1996-03-18  0:00   ` The Right Reverend Colin James III
1996-03-19  0:00     ` Norman H. Cohen
1996-03-20  0:00       ` Norman Cohen giving IBM a bad name The Right Reverend Colin James III
1996-03-20  0:00         ` Dave Retherford
1996-03-20  0:00         ` Brian & Karen Bell
1996-03-20  0:00         ` Colin James III giving humans a bad name (was Re: Norman Cohen giving IBM a bad name) David Emery
1996-03-20  0:00           ` Mark R Okern - F95
1996-03-20  0:00             ` Real OO John G. Volan
1996-03-21  0:00               ` Scott Leschke
1996-03-21  0:00                 ` Norman H. Cohen
1996-03-21  0:00                 ` Robert A Duff
1996-03-22  0:00                 ` Don Harrison
1996-03-21  0:00             ` Colin James III giving humans a bad name (was Re: Norman Cohen giving IBM a bad name) Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-03-21  0:00               ` Robert Dewar
1996-03-20  0:00         ` Real OO Dale Stanbrough
1996-03-21  0:00           ` Richard Pitre
1996-03-21  0:00         ` Norman Cohen giving IBM a bad name Kent Mitchell
1996-03-22  0:00         ` Robert Munck
1996-03-22  0:00           ` Mark Brennan
1996-03-22  0:00             ` David Curry
1996-03-23  0:00         ` Tom Reid
1996-03-21  0:00       ` Real OO Don Harrison
1996-03-21  0:00   ` Colin James III giving humans a bad name (was Re: Norman Cohen giving IBM a bad name) Ulrich Windl
1996-03-20  0:00 ` Real OO Don Harrison
1996-03-22  0:00 ` Don Harrison
1996-03-22  0:00   ` Norman H. Cohen
1996-03-26  0:00     ` Don Harrison
1996-03-26  0:00       ` Norman H. Cohen
1996-03-29  0:00         ` Don Harrison
1996-03-27  0:00       ` Thomas Beale
1996-03-28  0:00         ` Don Harrison
1996-03-22  0:00   ` Norman H. Cohen
1996-03-27  0:00     ` Don Harrison
1996-03-27  0:00       ` Norman H. Cohen
1996-03-28  0:00         ` Jacob Gore
1996-04-04  0:00         ` Don Harrison
1996-04-04  0:00           ` Laurent Guerby
1996-04-04  0:00           ` Robb Nebbe
1996-04-04  0:00           ` Jon S Anthony
1996-04-04  0:00           ` Tucker Taft
1996-04-04  0:00             ` Tucker Taft
1996-04-12  0:00               ` Don Harrison
1996-04-12  0:00             ` Don Harrison
1996-04-15  0:00               ` Robert I. Eachus
1996-04-19  0:00                 ` Don Harrison
1996-04-19  0:00                   ` Matt Kennel
1996-04-20  0:00                     ` Bob Hathaway
1996-04-23  0:00                     ` Don Harrison
1996-03-23  0:00   ` Joachim Durchholz
1996-03-26  0:00     ` Norman H. Cohen
1996-04-04  0:00       ` Don Harrison
1996-04-04  0:00         ` Jon S Anthony
1996-04-12  0:00           ` Don Harrison
1996-04-17  0:00             ` Jon S Anthony
1996-04-19  0:00               ` Don Harrison
1996-04-19  0:00                 ` Jon S Anthony
1996-04-23  0:00                   ` Don Harrison
1996-04-24  0:00                     ` Don Harrison
1996-04-29  0:00                     ` Jon S Anthony
1996-04-30  0:00                       ` Robert Dewar
1996-04-30  0:00                         ` Robert A Duff
1996-04-30  0:00                           ` Robert Dewar
1996-05-01  0:00                             ` Richard Bielak
1996-04-30  0:00                           ` Amit Patel
1996-05-01  0:00                           ` Adam Beneschan
1996-05-02  0:00                             ` Ell
1996-04-30  0:00                         ` Amit Patel
1996-04-30  0:00                           ` Robert A Duff
1996-05-07  0:00                             ` Amit Patel
1996-05-01  0:00                           ` Norman H. Cohen
1996-05-01  0:00                             ` Colin James III (The Rt Rev'd)
1996-05-07  0:00                             ` Amit Patel
1996-05-01  0:00                         ` AdaWorks
1996-05-01  0:00                         ` Don Harrison
1996-05-01  0:00                           ` David Hopwood
1996-05-03  0:00                             ` Don Harrison
1996-05-01  0:00                           ` Don Harrison
1996-05-02  0:00                             ` Robert A Duff
1996-05-03  0:00                               ` Don Harrison
1996-05-03  0:00                                 ` Robert A Duff
1996-05-06  0:00                                   ` Don Harrison
1996-05-06  0:00                                     ` Robert A Duff
1996-05-06  0:00                                     ` Robb Nebbe
1996-05-02  0:00                           ` Robert A Duff
1996-05-03  0:00                             ` Don Harrison
1996-05-10  0:00                             ` Don Harrison
1996-05-08  0:00                         ` Joachim Durchholz
1996-05-03  0:00                       ` Don Harrison
1996-05-03  0:00                         ` Dave Fitch
1996-05-07  0:00                         ` Jon S Anthony
1996-04-30  0:00                     ` Joachim Durchholz
1996-04-30  0:00                     ` Jon S Anthony
1996-05-01  0:00                       ` Matt Kennel
1996-05-03  0:00                         ` Don Harrison
1996-05-02  0:00                       ` Don Harrison
1996-05-02  0:00                         ` Jon S Anthony
1996-05-03  0:00                           ` Don Harrison
1996-05-06  0:00                             ` Jon S Anthony
1996-05-02  0:00                         ` Robert I. Eachus
1996-05-06  0:00                         ` Jon S Anthony
1996-05-06  0:00                       ` Don Harrison
1996-05-06  0:00                         ` Don Harrison
1996-05-07  0:00                         ` Jon S Anthony
1996-05-13  0:00                           ` Don Harrison
1996-05-09  0:00                         ` Jon S Anthony
1996-04-19  0:00                 ` Multiple Dispatch in Ada 95 (Was Re: Real OO) Brian Rogoff
1996-04-21  0:00                   ` Brian Rogoff
1996-04-19  0:00                 ` Robert I. Eachus
1996-04-20  0:00                 ` Brian Rogoff
1996-04-21  0:00                   ` Robert A Duff
1996-04-24  0:00                 ` Real OO Joachim Durchholz
1996-05-01  0:00                   ` Matt Kennel
1996-05-02  0:00                     ` Don Harrison
1996-05-07  0:00                   ` Joachim Durchholz
1996-05-08  0:00                   ` Jon S Anthony
1996-05-09  0:00                   ` Robert I. Eachus
1996-04-30  0:00                 ` Jon S Anthony
1996-05-03  0:00                   ` Don Harrison
1996-05-07  0:00                     ` Jon S Anthony
1996-04-30  0:00                 ` Joachim Durchholz
1996-05-08  0:00                   ` Joachim Durchholz
1996-05-10  0:00                   ` Jon S Anthony
1996-05-02  0:00                 ` Jon S Anthony
1996-05-06  0:00                 ` Jon S Anthony
1996-04-08  0:00         ` Norman H. Cohen
1996-04-08  0:00           ` Robert A Duff
1996-04-09  0:00             ` Norman H. Cohen
1996-04-10  0:00           ` Don Harrison
1996-04-11  0:00           ` Jacob Gore
1996-04-12  0:00           ` Don Harrison
1996-04-12  0:00             ` Matt Kennel
1996-04-15  0:00               ` Don Harrison
1996-04-12  0:00             ` Jon S Anthony
1996-04-13  0:00               ` Robert A Duff
1996-04-16  0:00             ` Jon S Anthony
1996-04-12  0:00           ` Don Harrison
1996-04-12  0:00             ` Jacob Gore
1996-04-16  0:00               ` Don Harrison
1996-04-09  0:00         ` Valery CROIZIER
1996-04-09  0:00         ` Jon S Anthony
1996-04-09  0:00       ` Joachim Durchholz
1996-05-02  0:00       ` Joachim Durchholz
1996-05-05  0:00         ` Robert A Duff
1996-05-05  0:00           ` Robert Dewar
1996-05-06  0:00         ` Norman H. Cohen
1996-05-07  0:00           ` Don Harrison
1996-05-07  0:00             ` Jon S Anthony
1996-05-08  0:00               ` Don Harrison
1996-05-08  0:00             ` Norman H. Cohen
1996-05-08  0:00               ` Robert A Duff
1996-05-10  0:00                 ` Matt Kennel
1996-05-10  0:00                   ` Robert A Duff
1996-05-14  0:00                     ` Matt Kennel
1996-05-15  0:00                       ` Robert A Duff
1996-05-07  0:00           ` Ada terminology (was Re: Real OO) David Hopwood
1996-05-07  0:00             ` The Right Reverend Colin James III
1996-05-07  0:00             ` Tucker Taft
1996-05-07  0:00               ` The Right Reverend Colin James III
1996-05-08  0:00               ` bill.williams
1996-05-07  0:00             ` Dave Jones
1996-05-07  0:00         ` Real OO Amit Patel
1996-05-07  0:00           ` The Right Reverend Colin James III
1996-05-08  0:00           ` Don Harrison
1996-05-08  0:00             ` Juergen Schlegelmilch
     [not found]               ` <Dr4538.D27@assip.csasyd.oz>
1996-05-09  0:00                 ` Juergen Schlegelmilch
1996-05-09  0:00                 ` Richard Riehle
1996-05-10  0:00                   ` Tucker Taft
1996-05-13  0:00                     ` Don Harrison
1996-05-13  0:00                       ` Tucker Taft
1996-05-14  0:00                         ` Don Harrison
1996-05-14  0:00                           ` Robert A Duff
1996-05-14  0:00                           ` Steve Tynor
1996-05-14  0:00                             ` Robert A Duff
1996-05-15  0:00                             ` Don Harrison
1996-05-15  0:00                           ` Steve Tynor
1996-05-15  0:00                             ` Robert A Duff
1996-05-16  0:00                           ` James McKim
1996-05-18  0:00                             ` Matt Kennel
1996-05-20  0:00                               ` James McKim
1996-05-22  0:00                                 ` Matt Kennel
1996-05-14  0:00                         ` Roger Browne
1996-05-14  0:00                         ` Joachim Durchholz
1996-05-15  0:00                         ` Alexander Kjeldaas
1996-05-15  0:00                         ` Steve Tynor
1996-05-19  0:00                         ` Piercarlo Grandi
1996-05-14  0:00                   ` James McKim
1996-05-15  0:00                     ` Juergen Schlegelmilch
1996-05-20  0:00               ` Joachim Durchholz
1996-05-07  0:00       ` Joachim Durchholz
1996-05-09  0:00         ` Don Harrison
1996-05-09  0:00           ` Jon S Anthony
1996-05-09  0:00           ` Joachim Durchholz
1996-04-02  0:00     ` Detecting type mismatch at compile time (was Re: Real OO) Robert I. Eachus
1996-04-03  0:00       ` Richard Bielak
1996-04-04  0:00       ` Don Harrison
1996-03-28  0:00   ` Real OO Joachim Durchholz
1996-03-29  0:00     ` Norman H. Cohen
1996-03-30  0:00       ` John G. Volan
1996-03-26  0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1996-03-29  0:00 ` Joachim Durchholz
1996-04-04  0:00   ` Don Harrison [this message]
1996-04-04  0:00     ` Dominique Colnet
1996-04-04  0:00     ` Steve Tynor
1996-04-08  0:00       ` Norman H. Cohen
1996-04-09  0:00         ` Matt Kennel
1996-04-08  0:00     ` Matt Kennel
1996-04-09  0:00       ` Norman H. Cohen
1996-04-09  0:00     ` Robert C. Martin
1996-04-10  0:00     ` J. Kanze
1996-05-02  0:00 Bob Crispen
     [not found] <DoDLr7.JDB@world.std.com>
     [not found] ` <4if7s5$bfk@ra.nrl.navy.mil>
     [not found]   ` <DoDqH4.29v@world.std.com>
1996-03-26  0:00     ` AdaWorks
1996-03-29  0:00   ` Brian Rogoff
     [not found] <JSA.96Mar13143956@organon.com>
1996-03-15  0:00 ` Don Harrison
     [not found] <4hneps$1238@watnews1.watson.ibm.com>
     [not found] ` <Do3F1K.4xG@assip.csasyd.oz>
     [not found]   ` <4i455s$ijq@watnews1.watson.ibm.com>
1996-03-15  0:00     ` Don Harrison
     [not found]       ` <DoBH80.9u9@world.std.com>
1996-03-15  0:00         ` Mark A Biggar
1996-03-15  0:00         ` Richard Pitre
1996-03-16  0:00     ` Des  Kenny
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