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From: bobduff@world.std.com (Robert A Duff)
Subject: Re: some questions re. Ada/GNAT from a C++/GCC user
Date: 1996/04/01
Date: 1996-04-01T00:00:00+00:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <Dp6y67.MI9@world.std.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: adaworksDp5Ct8.1wt@netcom.com

In article <adaworksDp5Ct8.1wt@netcom.com>,
AdaWorks <adaworks@netcom.com> wrote:
>  Surely you inadvertantly omitted your smiley for the phrase, "for no
>  good reason."

No, I'm absolutely serious.  No joke.  I really do think the extra
verbosity damages readability, and there's "no good reason" for it.
Don't get me wrong -- I don't think is really a big deal.

Another point: The extra verbosity also encourages people to declare
things up at the top of the procedure, rather than at the innermost
statement list in which they're used.  For example, I believe I saw a
post from Norman Cohen a while back, saying that (in some particular
example), the extra verbosity of declare/begin/end just isn't worth it.
That's sad, because when you move the thing up to the top, you make the
declaration harder to understand:

    - Its scope is larger, so to see how it's used, you have to read
      more code.

    - In many cases, the initial value of the variable is not known at
      the top of the procedure -- it's something that gets calculated
      along the way.  So you have to initialize it with an assignment
      statement.  That's bad, because it becomes harder to understand
      whether the variable is properly initialized.

    - In many cases, making the scope bigger than it needs to be causes
      the object to be a variable, rather than a constant.  Constants
      are easier to understand than variables.

So here's a case where trying to FORCE people to write good code
backfires.  Norm Cohen is not some evil doer who revels in terse, arcane
notations!

- Bob




  reply	other threads:[~1996-04-01  0:00 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 80+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
1996-03-27  0:00 some questions re. Ada/GNAT from a C++/GCC user Bill Newman
1996-03-27  0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1996-03-28  0:00   ` Norman H. Cohen
1996-03-28  0:00   ` Brian Rogoff
1996-03-29  0:00     ` John G. Volan
1996-03-30  0:00       ` Mike Young
1996-03-30  0:00         ` Ted Dennison
1996-03-31  0:00           ` Mike Young
1996-03-30  0:00       ` Robert A Duff
1996-03-31  0:00         ` Robert Dewar
1996-04-01  0:00           ` Norman H. Cohen
1996-03-31  0:00         ` John G. Volan
1996-03-31  0:00           ` Mike Young
1996-04-02  0:00             ` Glenn H. Porter
1996-04-02  0:00               ` Jonas Nygren
1996-04-02  0:00               ` Robert Dewar
1996-04-03  0:00               ` Geert Bosch
1996-04-03  0:00                 ` Robert Dewar
1996-04-01  0:00           ` Bruce.Conroy
1996-04-01  0:00           ` Robert A Duff
1996-04-03  0:00             ` Scott Leschke
1996-04-04  0:00               ` AdaWorks
1996-04-01  0:00       ` Norman H. Cohen
1996-04-01  0:00         ` Mike Young
1996-04-02  0:00           ` Norman H. Cohen
1996-04-02  0:00           ` David Shochat
1996-04-02  0:00             ` Mike Young
1996-04-02  0:00           ` Robert Dewar
1996-04-01  0:00         ` Robert A Duff
1996-04-01  0:00           ` Mike Young
1996-04-02  0:00             ` Robert A Duff
1996-04-02  0:00             ` Norman H. Cohen
1996-03-28  0:00 ` Scott Leschke
1996-03-29  0:00   ` Bill Newman
1996-03-29  0:00   ` Robert A Duff
1996-03-30  0:00     ` Richard Pitre
1996-03-30  0:00       ` Robert A Duff
1996-03-31  0:00         ` AdaWorks
1996-04-01  0:00           ` Robert A Duff [this message]
1996-04-01  0:00             ` Ken Garlington
1996-04-01  0:00               ` Robert A Duff
1996-04-02  0:00                 ` Tucker Taft
1996-04-02  0:00                   ` Felaco
1996-04-02  0:00                     ` Robert Dewar
1996-04-03  0:00                     ` Mark A Biggar
1996-04-02  0:00                 ` Ken Garlington
1996-04-02  0:00                   ` Robert A Duff
1996-04-02  0:00                     ` Ken Garlington
1996-04-02  0:00                       ` Robert A Duff
1996-04-03  0:00                         ` David Emery
1996-04-03  0:00                         ` Ken Garlington
1996-04-09  0:00                           ` Matt Kennel
1996-04-01  0:00             ` Norman H. Cohen
1996-04-01  0:00             ` AdaWorks
1996-04-01  0:00               ` Mike Young
1996-04-02  0:00                 ` Robert Dewar
1996-04-02  0:00                 ` AdaWorks
1996-04-01  0:00         ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-04-01  0:00           ` Robert A Duff
1996-04-01  0:00         ` Robert Dewar
1996-04-02  0:00       ` Robert I. Eachus
1996-03-29  0:00   ` Robert I. Eachus
1996-03-28  0:00 ` Ted Dennison
1996-03-29  0:00   ` Adam Beneschan
1996-03-29  0:00 ` Robert A Duff
1996-03-29  0:00   ` Brian Rogoff
1996-04-01  0:00     ` Mark A Biggar
1996-04-01  0:00       ` Robert A Duff
1996-03-30  0:00   ` Iterators (was Re: some questions re. Ada/GNAT from a C++/GCC user) Robert I. Eachus
1996-03-31  0:00     ` Mike Young
1996-03-31  0:00       ` Fergus Henderson
1996-04-01  0:00   ` Robert I. Eachus
     [not found]   ` <4jlj79$h1k@Nntp1.mcs.net>
1996-04-01  0:00     ` some questions re. Ada/GNAT from a C++/GCC user Robert A Duff
1996-04-02  0:00       ` Kevin Cline
1996-04-02  0:00         ` Robert A Duff
1996-04-04  0:00   ` Jon S Anthony
1996-03-30  0:00 ` Simon Wright
1996-04-01  0:00 ` Laurent Guerby
1996-04-01  0:00   ` Robert A Duff
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
1996-03-28  0:00 Simon Johnston
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