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From: demer@cdfsun03 (David Emery)
Subject: Re: C++ Standardization (was: Once again, Ada absent from DoD SBIR solicitation)
Date: 1996/10/21
Date: 1996-10-21T00:00:00+00:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <DEMER.96Oct21091008@cdfsun03> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 01bbb57f$7fb59020$72663389@billn.logicon.com


Nasser said:
...
>If someone is not smart enough to see an advantage in using Ada,
>let someone smarter than them take advantage of this fact, and 
>produce better software using Ada, which means they'll sell
>more software and make more money with less completion, since the
>end customer only cares about the quality of the product, not what
>language it was written in, let the free market and the free 
>competition decide. (When I go buy a car, I only care that it is
>a good quality car, not HOW and what tools where used to build it).

The problem with this is that it takes the "commercial" view of things.
If my Mac crashes, usually the results are a few cusswords, 15 minutes
lost time, and I reboot.  But this "market-based" model doesn't work 
for safety-critical or embedded systems.  It's really rough to have to 
reboot an airplane in mid-flight.  And it's very difficult to send an upgrade
to every washing machine in the world, when the software has a bug in it.

For military systems, my life could very well depend on the system working
correctly the first time (this is no idle comment, I'm in the U.S. Army 
Reserves...)   We can't afford to wait for version 3.1 of a strategic
defense system to work correctly; after the first usage the bugs will 
all probably end up looking like Mothra...  

Unfortunately, the current market-driven commercial software model does 
not place a high value on quality.    This is why following commercial
models is not the right view for most (but not all) defense projects.  And
it's why regulatory and acquisition agencies (not just the DoD) have
standards, policies and mandates.  

In the military domain, mandates make sense.  Nassar's model works OK in
the commercial domain, -if- quality becomes a significant factor in 
that domain.  

				dave
--
<.sig is away on vacation>





  parent reply	other threads:[~1996-10-21  0:00 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 250+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
1996-10-08  0:00 Once again, Ada absent from DoD SBIR solicitation Gregory Aharonian
1996-10-08  0:00 ` Gandalf
1996-10-09  0:00 ` Bill Nielsen
1996-10-09  0:00   ` Stanley R. Allen
1996-10-09  0:00     ` C++ Standardization (was: Once again, Ada absent from DoD SBIR solicitation) David Shochat
1996-10-10  0:00       ` Robert Dewar
1996-10-10  0:00         ` David Shochat
1996-10-20  0:00           ` Richard Riehle
1996-10-20  0:00             ` nasser
1996-10-21  0:00               ` Shayne Flint
1996-10-21  0:00                 ` Robert A Duff
1996-10-21  0:00                   ` Robert Dewar
1996-10-22  0:00                   ` Shayne Flint
1996-10-22  0:00                     ` Robert A Duff
1996-10-22  0:00                   ` Ken Garlington
1996-10-22  0:00               ` Rush Kester
1996-10-11  0:00         ` Ed Falis
1996-10-11  0:00           ` Robert Dewar
1996-10-12  0:00             ` Kevin D. Heatwole
1996-10-12  0:00               ` Robert Dewar
1996-10-13  0:00                 ` Larry Kilgallen
1996-10-13  0:00             ` Ed Falis
1996-10-11  0:00       ` Dave Wood
1996-10-11  0:00         ` Dave Wood
1996-10-17  0:00         ` Garbage Collection in Ada Thomas Kendelbacher
1996-10-10  0:00     ` Once again, Ada absent from DoD SBIR solicitation Mike Stark
1996-10-10  0:00       ` Stanley R. Allen
1996-10-11  0:00         ` Mitch Gart
1996-10-11  0:00           ` Ken Garlington
1996-10-11  0:00           ` Robert Dewar
1996-10-14  0:00             ` Mitch Gart
1996-10-14  0:00               ` Ken Garlington
1996-10-14  0:00           ` Norman H. Cohen
1996-10-14  0:00             ` Bevin R. Brett
1996-10-10  0:00     ` Mitch Gart
1996-10-10  0:00       ` Java vs Ada 95 (Was Re: Once again, Ada absent from DoD SBIR solicitation) Brian Rogoff
1996-10-10  0:00         ` Dave
1996-10-11  0:00           ` Stephen Leake
1996-10-11  0:00             ` Dave
1996-10-11  0:00               ` Robert Dewar
1996-10-12  0:00                 ` Dave
1996-10-12  0:00                   ` Robert Dewar
1996-10-14  0:00                   ` Keith Thompson
1996-10-11  0:00           ` Tucker Taft
1996-10-14  0:00             ` Brian Rogoff
1996-10-15  0:00               ` Mike Stark
1996-10-15  0:00                 ` Robert Dewar
1996-10-16  0:00                   ` Mike Stark
1996-10-17  0:00                     ` Robert A Duff
1996-10-17  0:00                 ` Why no Propagates? Matthew Heaney
1996-10-18  0:00                   ` Robert A Duff
1996-10-18  0:00                   ` Robert Dewar
1996-10-18  0:00                   ` Norman H. Cohen
1996-10-18  0:00                     ` Robert Dewar
1996-10-15  0:00               ` Java vs Ada 95 (Was Re: Once again, Ada absent from DoD SBIR solicitation) Robert A Duff
1996-10-15  0:00                 ` Robert Dewar
1996-10-15  0:00                 ` Portability of Arithmetic (was: Java vs Ada 95) Larry Kilgallen
1996-10-16  0:00                   ` Robert A Duff
1996-10-16  0:00                     ` Robert Dewar
1996-10-17  0:00                       ` Robert A Duff
1996-10-17  0:00                         ` Robert Dewar
1996-10-18  0:00                           ` Norman H. Cohen
1996-10-18  0:00                             ` Robert Dewar
1996-10-18  0:00                               ` Brian R. Hanson
1996-10-19  0:00                                 ` Robert Dewar
1996-10-19  0:00                                   ` Larry Kilgallen
1996-10-22  0:00                                     ` Once again, Ada absent from DoD SBIR solicitation Dale Stanbrough
1996-10-27  0:00                                       ` Robert Dewar
1996-10-21  0:00                                   ` Portability of Arithmetic (was: Java vs Ada 95) Norman H. Cohen
1996-10-21  0:00                                     ` Robert Dewar
1996-10-21  0:00                               ` Lance Kibblewhite
1996-10-21  0:00                               ` Norman H. Cohen
1996-10-21  0:00                                 ` Robert Dewar
1996-10-22  0:00                                   ` Larry Kilgallen
1996-10-23  0:00                                     ` Robert Dewar
1996-10-23  0:00                                       ` Larry Kilgallen
1996-10-23  0:00                                   ` Norman H. Cohen
1996-10-18  0:00                           ` Larry Kilgallen
1996-10-18  0:00                             ` Robert A Duff
1996-10-17  0:00                         ` Larry Kilgallen
1996-10-18  0:00                           ` Robert A Duff
1996-10-17  0:00                     ` Stephen Leake
1996-10-17  0:00                       ` Robert A Duff
1996-10-17  0:00                         ` Larry Kilgallen
1996-10-18  0:00                           ` Robert A Duff
1996-10-17  0:00                         ` Robert Dewar
1996-10-17  0:00                 ` Java vs Ada 95 (Was Re: Once again, Ada absent from DoD SBIR solicitation) Alan Brain
1996-10-17  0:00                   ` Robert Dewar
1996-10-17  0:00                   ` Robert A Duff
1996-10-18  0:00                   ` Keith Thompson
1996-10-20  0:00                     ` Alan Brain
1996-10-24  0:00                 ` Robert I. Eachus
1996-10-15  0:00               ` Mitch Gart
1996-10-15  0:00                 ` Larry Kilgallen
1996-10-15  0:00                   ` Mark A Biggar
1996-10-16  0:00                 ` Brian Rogoff
1996-10-28  0:00                 ` Kenneth Almquist
1996-10-29  0:00                   ` Invoking parental methods (was: Java vs Ada 95) Larry Kilgallen
1996-10-31  0:00                     ` Kenneth Almquist
1996-10-31  0:00                       ` Larry Kilgallen
1996-11-05  0:00                         ` Mitch Gart
1996-11-05  0:00                           ` Larry Kilgallen
1996-11-09  0:00                             ` Joel VanLaven
1996-11-05  0:00                           ` Tucker Taft
1996-11-05  0:00                             ` Larry Kilgallen
1996-11-06  0:00                               ` Robert A Duff
1996-11-06  0:00                                 ` Larry Kilgallen
1996-11-06  0:00                             ` Robert I. Eachus
1996-11-07  0:00                               ` David Wheeler
1996-11-06  0:00                             ` Mitch Gart
1996-11-08  0:00                             ` Robert I. Eachus
1996-11-08  0:00                             ` Jon S Anthony
1996-10-16  0:00             ` Java vs Ada 95 (Was Re: Once again, Ada absent from DoD SBIR solicitation) Brian Rogoff
1996-10-16  0:00               ` Robert Dewar
1996-10-17  0:00                 ` Robert A Duff
1996-10-17  0:00                   ` Robert Dewar
1996-11-22  0:00                 ` Van Snyder
1996-11-25  0:00                   ` Java vs Ada vs Inferno, floating point arithmetic Anssi Porttikivi
1996-10-16  0:00             ` Java vs Ada 95 (Was Re: Once again, Ada absent from DoD SBIR solicitation) Jon S Anthony
1996-10-16  0:00             ` Brian Rogoff
1996-10-11  0:00           ` Robert Dewar
1996-10-12  0:00             ` davedave
1996-10-12  0:00               ` Robert Dewar
1996-10-13  0:00               ` Larry Kilgallen
1996-10-18  0:00           ` Why no Propagates? Michel Gauthier
1996-10-22  0:00             ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-10-23  0:00           ` Michel Gauthier
1996-10-11  0:00         ` Java vs Ada 95 (Was Re: Once again, Ada absent from DoD SBIR solicitation) Mitch Gart
1996-10-11  0:00       ` Jon S Anthony
1996-10-12  0:00         ` Robert Dewar
1996-10-14  0:00           ` Mitch Gart
1996-10-14  0:00           ` Brian R. Hanson
1996-10-14  0:00         ` Keith Thompson
1996-10-15  0:00           ` Dale Stanbrough
1996-10-15  0:00             ` Brian R. Hanson
1996-10-20  0:00           ` nasser
1996-10-11  0:00       ` Jon S Anthony
1996-10-12  0:00       ` davedave
1996-10-12  0:00         ` Robert Dewar
1996-10-16  0:00           ` Jon S Anthony
1996-10-16  0:00           ` Jon S Anthony
1996-10-14  0:00       ` Jon S Anthony
1996-10-14  0:00       ` Jon S Anthony
1996-10-14  0:00       ` Jon S Anthony
1996-10-14  0:00         ` Robert Dewar
1996-10-15  0:00           ` Robert A Duff
1996-10-15  0:00             ` Larry Kilgallen
1996-10-16  0:00               ` Lars Farm
1996-10-16  0:00                 ` Robert Dewar
1996-10-17  0:00           ` Why no Free? Matthew Heaney
1996-10-18  0:00             ` John Herro
1996-10-19  0:00               ` John Herro
1996-10-18  0:00             ` Robert A Duff
1996-10-18  0:00             ` Robert Dewar
1996-10-14  0:00       ` Java vs Ada 95 (Was Re: Once again, Ada absent from DoD SBIR solicitation) Jon S Anthony
1996-10-14  0:00       ` Brian Rogoff
1996-10-15  0:00       ` Robert I. Eachus
1996-10-15  0:00       ` Brian Rogoff
1996-10-15  0:00       ` Robert I. Eachus
1996-10-15  0:00         ` Robert Dewar
1996-10-16  0:00       ` Jon S Anthony
1996-10-16  0:00       ` Jon S Anthony
1996-10-18  0:00         ` Keith Thompson
1996-10-16  0:00       ` Jon S Anthony
1996-10-17  0:00         ` Robert Dewar
1996-10-17  0:00         ` Robert Dewar
1996-10-16  0:00       ` Samuel T. Harris
1996-10-16  0:00       ` Jon S Anthony
1996-10-16  0:00       ` Jon S Anthony
1996-10-18  0:00       ` Jon S Anthony
1996-10-18  0:00       ` Jon S Anthony
1996-10-18  0:00       ` Jon S Anthony
1996-10-29  0:00       ` Jon S Anthony
1996-10-29  0:00       ` Robert I. Eachus
1996-10-29  0:00       ` Kenneth Almquist
1996-10-29  0:00         ` Robert Dewar
1996-10-31  0:00           ` Kenneth Almquist
1996-10-30  0:00       ` Stephen Leake
1996-10-31  0:00         ` Lars Farm
1996-10-31  0:00       ` Jon S Anthony
1996-10-31  0:00       ` Kenneth Almquist
1996-11-01  0:00       ` Robert I. Eachus
1996-11-01  0:00         ` Robert A Duff
     [not found]           ` <55gkch$gg6@fozzie.sun3.iaf.nl>
1996-11-03  0:00             ` Robert A Duff
1996-11-03  0:00               ` Robert Dewar
1996-11-04  0:00                 ` Larry Kilgallen
1996-11-04  0:00                   ` Robert Dewar
1996-11-05  0:00                 ` Fast locking (Was Re: Java vs Ada 95) Geert Bosch
1996-11-06  0:00                   ` Larry Kilgallen
1996-11-06  0:00                     ` Geert Bosch
1996-11-07  0:00                       ` Larry Kilgallen
1996-11-07  0:00                         ` Robert Dewar
1996-11-11  0:00                           ` Norman H. Cohen
1996-11-08  0:00                         ` Geert Bosch
1996-11-06  0:00                     ` Robert Dewar
1996-11-02  0:00         ` Java vs Ada 95 (Was Re: Once again, Ada absent from DoD SBIR solicitation) Robert Dewar
1996-11-04  0:00         ` Robert I. Eachus
1996-11-05  0:00           ` Larry Kilgallen
1996-11-14  0:00           ` Robert Dewar
1996-11-16  0:00             ` Robert A Duff
1996-11-16  0:00               ` Robert Dewar
1996-11-17  0:00                 ` Unbounded strings (Was: Java vs Ada 95 (Was Re: Once again, Ada absent from DoD SBIR solicitation)) Robert A Duff
1996-11-18  0:00                   ` Robert Dewar
1996-11-19  0:00                     ` Robert A Duff
1996-11-23  0:00                       ` Robert Dewar
1996-11-24  0:00                         ` Robert A Duff
1996-11-25  0:00                         ` Norman H. Cohen
1996-11-27  0:00                           ` Robert Dewar
1996-11-19  0:00                     ` Joel VanLaven
1996-11-23  0:00                       ` Robert Dewar
1996-11-21  0:00                   ` Robert I. Eachus
1996-11-24  0:00                     ` Robert Dewar
1996-11-24  0:00                       ` Fergus Henderson
1996-11-24  0:00                         ` Robert Dewar
1996-11-25  0:00                       ` Kevin D. Heatwole
1996-11-25  0:00                         ` Robert A Duff
1996-11-26  0:00                           ` Kevin D. Heatwole
1996-11-26  0:00                             ` Robert A Duff
1996-11-26  0:00                               ` Larry Kilgallen
1996-11-27  0:00                               ` Norman H. Cohen
1996-11-29  0:00                                 ` Fergus Henderson
1996-11-29  0:00                                 ` Robert A Duff
1996-11-27  0:00                               ` Robert Dewar
1996-11-26  0:00                         ` Geert Bosch
1996-11-26  0:00                           ` Robert Dewar
1996-11-25  0:00                   ` Robert I. Eachus
1996-11-20  0:00                 ` Jon S Anthony
1996-11-24  0:00                   ` Robert Dewar
1996-11-16  0:00             ` Java vs Ada 95 (Was Re: Once again, Ada absent from DoD SBIR solicitation) Geert Bosch
1996-11-17  0:00               ` Robert Dewar
1996-11-17  0:00                 ` Robert A Duff
1996-11-18  0:00                   ` Robert Dewar
1996-11-19  0:00                     ` Robert A Duff
1996-11-18  0:00                 ` Geert Bosch
1996-11-22  0:00                   ` Robert Dewar
1996-11-18  0:00                 ` Norman H. Cohen
1996-11-06  0:00         ` Robert I. Eachus
1996-10-11  0:00     ` Ada and the DoD HLA (was: " John Cosby
1996-10-13  0:00     ` Java vs Ada 95 (Was " Hannes Haug
1996-11-03  0:00     ` Hannes Haug
1996-11-06  0:00     ` Fast locking (Was Re: Java vs Ada 95) Hannes Haug
1996-11-06  0:00     ` Hannes Haug
1996-10-11  0:00   ` Once again, Ada absent from DoD SBIR solicitation Matthew M. Lih
1996-10-18  0:00     ` Rush Kester
1996-10-21  0:00   ` David Emery [this message]
1996-10-10  0:00 ` C++ Standardization (was: Once again, Ada absent from DoD SBIR solicitation) Jon S Anthony
1996-10-11  0:00 ` Jon S Anthony
1996-10-22  0:00 ` Tarjei Jensen
1996-10-22  0:00   ` C++ Standardization (was: Once again, Ian Ward
1996-11-01  0:00 ` Java vs Ada 95 (Was Re: Once again, Ada absent from DoD SBIR solicitation) Jon S Anthony
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