* Digital and Ada ? @ 1994-12-09 16:43 Scott Leschke 1994-12-10 1:01 ` Bevin R. Brett ` (2 more replies) 0 siblings, 3 replies; 17+ messages in thread From: Scott Leschke @ 1994-12-09 16:43 UTC (permalink / raw) I heard a well placed Digital marketing guy say recently that DEC was abandoning the Ada biz. Anybody have insights on this ? Scott Leschke Motorola Inc. -- Scott Leschke ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: Digital and Ada ? 1994-12-09 16:43 Digital and Ada ? Scott Leschke @ 1994-12-10 1:01 ` Bevin R. Brett 1994-12-10 23:26 ` Tucker Taft 1994-12-26 8:15 ` Magnus Ericson 2 siblings, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread From: Bevin R. Brett @ 1994-12-10 1:01 UTC (permalink / raw) In article <leschkes.786991439@ferret>, leschkes@ferret.cig.mot.com (Scott Leschke) writes... >I heard a well placed Digital marketing guy say recently that DEC was >abandoning the Ada biz. This rumour is founded on an incorrect extrapolation of what we are doing. Digital and Rational have announced that they are partnering for Ada'95, with Rational making the Alpha OSF/1 platform their premier platform. The Digital Ada 83 product is still being maintained and is selling very well, besides which we have major commitments to customers w.r.t. this product. We are looking at the business case for putting Ada'95 on VMS, and at the best ways of satisfying the customer needs here. For more detailed information, you should contact the product manager, axel@sdtpmm.dec.com. /Bevin ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: Digital and Ada ? 1994-12-09 16:43 Digital and Ada ? Scott Leschke 1994-12-10 1:01 ` Bevin R. Brett @ 1994-12-10 23:26 ` Tucker Taft 1994-12-12 14:53 ` Garlington KE 1994-12-26 8:15 ` Magnus Ericson 2 siblings, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread From: Tucker Taft @ 1994-12-10 23:26 UTC (permalink / raw) In article <leschkes.786991439@ferret>, Scott Leschke <leschkes@ferret.cig.mot.com> wrote: >I heard a well placed Digital marketing guy say recently that DEC was >abandoning the Ada biz. > >Anybody have insights on this ? DEC has chosen to halt development of their own Ada 9X compiler (at least for now). They will continue to support their Ada 83 compilers as long as there is a market for them. They have an agreement with Rational to provide Apex on Alpha (OSF/1 and Windows/NT), and Rational in turn has agreed to make the Alpha the "first-line" host for Apex, meaning that new releases of Apex will appear on the Alpha first, or at least no later than on any other platform. This information is mostly from public announcements at Tri-Ada '94 and elsewhere. It is no secret... >Scott Leschke >Motorola Inc. >-- >Scott Leschke -Tucker Taft Intermetrics, Inc. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: Digital and Ada ? 1994-12-10 23:26 ` Tucker Taft @ 1994-12-12 14:53 ` Garlington KE 1994-12-13 2:54 ` Bevin R. Brett 1994-12-13 12:41 ` Richard Kenner 0 siblings, 2 replies; 17+ messages in thread From: Garlington KE @ 1994-12-12 14:53 UTC (permalink / raw) Tucker Taft (stt@dsd.camb.inmet.com) wrote: : as long as there is a market for them. They have an agreement : with Rational to provide Apex on Alpha (OSF/1 and Windows/NT), : and Rational in turn has agreed to make the Alpha the "first-line" : host for Apex, meaning that new releases of Apex will appear : on the Alpha first, or at least no later than on any other platform. Unfortunately, if you've developed a lot of Ada code on VAX/VMS. you get no help from either DEC, Rational or GNAT if you want to use Ada 95. Yet another nail in the VAX coffin (but that's a different thread ;). -------------------------------------------------------------------- Ken Garlington GarlingtonKE@lfwc.lockheed.com F-22 Computer Resources Lockheed Fort Worth Co. If LFWC or the F-22 program has any opinions, they aren't telling me. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: Digital and Ada ? 1994-12-12 14:53 ` Garlington KE @ 1994-12-13 2:54 ` Bevin R. Brett 1994-12-14 1:06 ` Where can I get an Ada 9x LRM? Kevin Simonson 1994-12-23 15:30 ` Digital and Ada ? Garlington KE 1994-12-13 12:41 ` Richard Kenner 1 sibling, 2 replies; 17+ messages in thread From: Bevin R. Brett @ 1994-12-13 2:54 UTC (permalink / raw) In article <3cho5r$k4f@cliffy.lfwc.lockheed.com>, l107353@cliffy.lfwc.lockheed.com (Garlington KE) writes... >Unfortunately, if you've developed a lot of Ada code on VAX/VMS. you get >no help from either DEC, Rational or GNAT if you want to use Ada 95. Yet >another nail in the VAX coffin (but that's a different thread ;). >-------------------------------------------------------------------- >Ken Garlington GarlingtonKE@lfwc.lockheed.com >F-22 Computer Resources Lockheed Fort Worth Co. If you have developed a lot of code in Ada for VAX/VMS, then you can continue to compile it with the same compiler that you have for the last 10 years, and which is still being maintained. If you want to reuse that code in an Ada'95 environment on a VMS system, then it probably is not a VAX system, but an Alpha one. As I said in my earlier post, we are still investigating the business case for Ada'95 on VMS to try to determine the best thing to do. If you want to reuse it on a Ada'95 Alpha OSF system, then how to best support you in doing that is still being studied, both here and at Rational. /Bevin ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Where can I get an Ada 9x LRM? 1994-12-13 2:54 ` Bevin R. Brett @ 1994-12-14 1:06 ` Kevin Simonson 1994-12-14 12:45 ` Gentle 1994-12-16 1:39 ` Brian Connors 1994-12-23 15:30 ` Digital and Ada ? Garlington KE 1 sibling, 2 replies; 17+ messages in thread From: Kevin Simonson @ 1994-12-14 1:06 UTC (permalink / raw) I have been informed that the powers-that-be have decided that the 'x' in Ada 9x will be a '4', and I have seen Boeing training instructors with their own personal copies of an Ada 94 LRM. Is there someplace where I can get a copy of such an LRM for myself? They got theirs free from an Ada conference, so I can't get one the same way they did. Any information would be appreciated. If this is a FAQ, sorry. I just resubscribed to this newsgroup, af- ter being away from it for a while. ---Kevin Simonson ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: Where can I get an Ada 9x LRM? 1994-12-14 1:06 ` Where can I get an Ada 9x LRM? Kevin Simonson @ 1994-12-14 12:45 ` Gentle 1994-12-14 10:22 ` David Emery 1994-12-16 1:39 ` Brian Connors 1 sibling, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread From: Gentle @ 1994-12-14 12:45 UTC (permalink / raw) On Wed, 14 Dec 1994 01:06:45 GMT, Kevin Simonson (simonson@cs.washington.edu) wrote: : I have been informed that the powers-that-be have decided that the : 'x' in Ada 9x will be a '4', and I have seen Boeing training instructors No. The 'x' will be a '5'. -- ========================================================================= gentle@cnj.digex.net Software Engineer (extraordinaire!) Level: International Hacker Edison, NJ "If you can count your money, you don't have a billion dollars." -- J. Paul Getty ========================================================================= ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: Where can I get an Ada 9x LRM? 1994-12-14 12:45 ` Gentle @ 1994-12-14 10:22 ` David Emery 0 siblings, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread From: David Emery @ 1994-12-14 10:22 UTC (permalink / raw) That's correct. Ada 9X was approved by ISO in 1994, but the date of the standard is not the approval date, but rather the publication date by the ISO Central Secretariat. This is expected in early 1995, so it's Ada 95. dave -- --The preceeding opinions do not necessarily reflect the opinions of --The MITRE Corporation or its sponsors. -- "A good plan violently executed -NOW- is better than a perfect plan -- next week" George Patton -- "Any damn fool can write a plan. It's the execution that gets you -- all screwed up" James Hollingsworth ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: Where can I get an Ada 9x LRM? 1994-12-14 1:06 ` Where can I get an Ada 9x LRM? Kevin Simonson 1994-12-14 12:45 ` Gentle @ 1994-12-16 1:39 ` Brian Connors 1 sibling, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread From: Brian Connors @ 1994-12-16 1:39 UTC (permalink / raw) In article <D0s0Fw.8I5@beaver.cs.washington.edu>, simonson@cs.washington.edu (Kevin Simonson) wrote: > I have been informed that the powers-that-be have decided that the > 'x' in Ada 9x will be a '4', and I have seen Boeing training instructors > with their own personal copies of an Ada 94 LRM. Is there someplace where > I can get a copy of such an LRM for myself? They got theirs free from an > Ada conference, so I can't get one the same way they did. Any information > would be appreciated. Somebody friggin' answer the question... Yes it will be Ada '95. It's not anywhere on the cover of my LRM, but it will be Ada95. As to where to find it, I don't know that the final one will be available for FTP (ISO copyrights and all), but the v5.95 final draft is, and here's the URL: ftp://ajpo.sei.cmu.edu/public/ada9x/mrtcomments/rm9x/v5.95.compressed/rm.doc.Z This is dated 25 November 1994 and is freely distributable. I have a copy in front of me, printed out in 7pt Courier and spiral-bound by the local all-night copy center. Printed out in that font on BBEdit Lite on a Macintosh, it comes out to about 450 pages. I chose green and gray for the covers, FWIW...nice and military:-). The AARM is also available there but it would probably do a fairly comprehensive job of causing any but an industrial-grade paper-snarfin' toner-spewin' workgroup-servin' final-copy-makin' high end laser printer to fall over after about page 556. I haven't even tried to download it. I'm just noticing this now--there's an Ada95 yacc grammar there too. Might be useful... Brian Connors Boston College ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: Digital and Ada ? 1994-12-13 2:54 ` Bevin R. Brett 1994-12-14 1:06 ` Where can I get an Ada 9x LRM? Kevin Simonson @ 1994-12-23 15:30 ` Garlington KE 1 sibling, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread From: Garlington KE @ 1994-12-23 15:30 UTC (permalink / raw) Bevin R. Brett (brett@ada9x.enet.dec.com) wrote: : If you have developed a lot of code in Ada for VAX/VMS, then you can continue : to compile it with the same compiler that you have for the last 10 years, and : which is still being maintained. As long as you want to use a subset of Ada (95) for any maintenance or new development. As was noted in my original post, if you want to use Ada 95 on VAX/VMS, SOL. : If you want to reuse that code in an Ada'95 environment on a VMS system, : then it probably is not a VAX system, but an Alpha one. As I said in my : earlier post, we are still investigating the business case for Ada'95 on : VMS to try to determine the best thing to do. We have an Ada 95 compiler on our VAX/VMS system today. Unfortunately, it's targeted to the MIL-STD-1750. Many of our cross-compiler users like to compile their code using a self-targeted compiler first, and then use the cross- compiler later. Unfortunately, with the abandonment of the VAX, they now have a quandry: If they use Ada 95 features supported on their cross-compiler, they can no longer use the obsolete VAX/VMS compiler. If they don't, they are losing all the benefits of Ada 95. Many of them are choosing to stick to Ada 87 until a VAX/VMS toolset becomes available. But, hey, why worry about whether or not F-22 uses Ada 95? It's not a highly visible program in DoD, or anything like that... As for Alphas, we're looking at when we'll junk our huge investment in VAXen and go to the next big thing. Given the funding for F-22, it should happen in, say, five years at the earliest. Of course, some people are getting tired of DEC and want to go to something other than Alpha, so who knows? The point is, there are a lot of people that will be using VAX/VMS as a development platform for some time, despite DEC marketing. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Ken Garlington GarlingtonKE@lfwc.lockheed.com F-22 Computer Resources Lockheed Fort Worth Co. If LFWC or the F-22 program has any opinions, they aren't telling me. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: Digital and Ada ? 1994-12-12 14:53 ` Garlington KE 1994-12-13 2:54 ` Bevin R. Brett @ 1994-12-13 12:41 ` Richard Kenner 1994-12-14 1:27 ` Bevin R. Brett 1994-12-19 15:29 ` Garlington KE 1 sibling, 2 replies; 17+ messages in thread From: Richard Kenner @ 1994-12-13 12:41 UTC (permalink / raw) In article <3cho5r$k4f@cliffy.lfwc.lockheed.com> l107353@cliffy.lfwc.lockheed.com (Garlington KE) writes: >Unfortunately, if you've developed a lot of Ada code on VAX/VMS. you get >no help from either DEC, Rational or GNAT if you want to use Ada 95. Yet >another nail in the VAX coffin (but that's a different thread ;). Actually, GNAT should run just fine under VAX/VMS, since there's a well-maintained GCC on VAX/VMS. It's Alpha/VMS where there is currently no Ada 95 solution, nor a definite plan to make one. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: Digital and Ada ? 1994-12-13 12:41 ` Richard Kenner @ 1994-12-14 1:27 ` Bevin R. Brett 1994-12-16 4:41 ` Robert Dewar 1994-12-19 15:29 ` Garlington KE 1 sibling, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread From: Bevin R. Brett @ 1994-12-14 1:27 UTC (permalink / raw) In article <3ck4qk$fn2@cmcl2.NYU.EDU>, kenner@lab.ultra.nyu.edu (Richard Kenner) writes... >Actually, GNAT should run just fine under VAX/VMS, since there's a >well-maintained GCC on VAX/VMS. Yes, but it almost certainly won't compile the DEC Ada pragmas that do all the interesting work around being a VMS compiler (pass-by-descriptor for example) nor will it necessarily be capable of compiling the same range of representation clauses, nor ... It will require quite a lot of work for GNAT to become a DEC Ada substitute. /Bevin ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: Digital and Ada ? 1994-12-14 1:27 ` Bevin R. Brett @ 1994-12-16 4:41 ` Robert Dewar 0 siblings, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread From: Robert Dewar @ 1994-12-16 4:41 UTC (permalink / raw) In addition, just because there is a GCC for a machine does not mean there is a GNAT automatically. Paritcularly in the case of VMS, with its unusual structure of directory names, there is some special tailoring of the GNAT system interface code. Also tasking does not pop out free. Bevin is quite right, making a version of GNAT that is a fully functional susbtitute for current Dec Ada compilers is not zero work! ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: Digital and Ada ? 1994-12-13 12:41 ` Richard Kenner 1994-12-14 1:27 ` Bevin R. Brett @ 1994-12-19 15:29 ` Garlington KE 1994-12-21 16:19 ` Richard Kenner 1 sibling, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread From: Garlington KE @ 1994-12-19 15:29 UTC (permalink / raw) Richard Kenner (kenner@lab.ultra.nyu.edu) wrote: : Actually, GNAT should run just fine under VAX/VMS, since there's a : well-maintained GCC on VAX/VMS. : It's Alpha/VMS where there is currently no Ada 95 solution, nor a : definite plan to make one. If I understand Robert Dewar's correspondence, it could actually run on both VAX/VMS and Alpha/VMS, just that the Alpha would have to run slower that it could since it would be emulating the VAX instruction set. However, I also got the impression that porting to VMS would not be quite as easy as Unix, although it could be done. Nonetheless, there is no GNAT for any VMS, and no one appears to have announced definite plans to build one. Therefore, I think my original statement is still correct - Today, if you want Ada 9X on VMS, you are S.O.L. (sadly out of luck). -------------------------------------------------------------------- Ken Garlington GarlingtonKE@lfwc.lockheed.com F-22 Computer Resources Lockheed Fort Worth Co. If LFWC or the F-22 program has any opinions, they aren't telling me. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: Digital and Ada ? 1994-12-19 15:29 ` Garlington KE @ 1994-12-21 16:19 ` Richard Kenner 1994-12-23 8:50 ` Peter Hermann 0 siblings, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread From: Richard Kenner @ 1994-12-21 16:19 UTC (permalink / raw) In article <3d48s8$4af@cliffy.lfwc.lockheed.com> l107353@cliffy.lfwc.lockheed.com (Garlington KE) writes: >If I understand Robert Dewar's correspondence, it could actually run >on both VAX/VMS and Alpha/VMS, just that the Alpha would have to run >slower that it could since it would be emulating the VAX instruction set. >However, I also got the impression that porting to VMS would not be >quite as easy as Unix, although it could be done. No, you misunderstand. I don't think Robert was proposing running VAX code on Alpha (though I suppose that *is* an option). There are two issues: (1) Given a GCC port to a VMS target, there are some system-dependent issues, such as filename syntax, that have to be addressed to port GNAT to that system. (2) There is a GCC port to VAX/VMS, but none currently to Alpha/VMS. The latter port is neither trivial nor exceedingly complex. So far no one has comitted to doing it but someone (you know who you are!) told me at Tri-Ada that he wanted to do it. So, GNAT for VAX/VMS requires only (1) above to be done, but GNAT for Alpha/VMS requires both (1) and (2). Note that when (1) is done, that part will also be usable for Alpha/VMS and so once that GCC port is done, GNAT would then run without any further work. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: Digital and Ada ? 1994-12-21 16:19 ` Richard Kenner @ 1994-12-23 8:50 ` Peter Hermann 0 siblings, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread From: Peter Hermann @ 1994-12-23 8:50 UTC (permalink / raw) Richard Kenner (kenner@lab.ultra.nyu.edu) wrote: : (1) Given a GCC port to a VMS target, there are some system-dependent : issues, such as filename syntax, that have to be addressed to port : GNAT to that system. Does there exist a free software to translate the directory/filename syntax between unix and Vax/VMS, back and forth? Examples: dn [.dn] dn/fn [.dn]fn ../fn [-]fn ~/fn sys$login:fn /usr/fn [usr]fn also conceivable towards MS-DOS et.al. and back. This would be a tremendous help for data base systems, especially distributed ones. 2. question: is krunch8 public domain? (trimming filnames to 8 chars for ms-dos) -- Peter Hermann Tel:+49-711-685-3611 Fax:3758 ph@csv.ica.uni-stuttgart.de Pfaffenwaldring 27, 70569 Stuttgart Uni Computeranwendungen Team Ada: "C'mon people let the world begin" (Paul McCartney) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: Digital and Ada ? 1994-12-09 16:43 Digital and Ada ? Scott Leschke 1994-12-10 1:01 ` Bevin R. Brett 1994-12-10 23:26 ` Tucker Taft @ 1994-12-26 8:15 ` Magnus Ericson 2 siblings, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread From: Magnus Ericson @ 1994-12-26 8:15 UTC (permalink / raw) Scott Leschke (leschkes@ferret.cig.mot.com) wrote: : I heard a well placed Digital marketing guy say recently that DEC was : abandoning the Ada biz. : Anybody have insights on this ? : Scott Leschke : Motorola Inc. : -- : Scott Leschke What I have heard is that they have contracted Rational to make an Ada compiler for there ALPHA machines.... Regards Magnus ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~1994-12-26 8:15 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 17+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 1994-12-09 16:43 Digital and Ada ? Scott Leschke 1994-12-10 1:01 ` Bevin R. Brett 1994-12-10 23:26 ` Tucker Taft 1994-12-12 14:53 ` Garlington KE 1994-12-13 2:54 ` Bevin R. Brett 1994-12-14 1:06 ` Where can I get an Ada 9x LRM? Kevin Simonson 1994-12-14 12:45 ` Gentle 1994-12-14 10:22 ` David Emery 1994-12-16 1:39 ` Brian Connors 1994-12-23 15:30 ` Digital and Ada ? Garlington KE 1994-12-13 12:41 ` Richard Kenner 1994-12-14 1:27 ` Bevin R. Brett 1994-12-16 4:41 ` Robert Dewar 1994-12-19 15:29 ` Garlington KE 1994-12-21 16:19 ` Richard Kenner 1994-12-23 8:50 ` Peter Hermann 1994-12-26 8:15 ` Magnus Ericson
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