* Seeking advice @ 2003-02-09 5:36 Tony 2003-02-09 11:35 ` Preben Randhol 2003-02-09 13:02 ` Jeffrey Creem 0 siblings, 2 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Tony @ 2003-02-09 5:36 UTC (permalink / raw) My apologies in advance if some of these questions have been answered recently or are contained in a FAQ that I should have read before posting :) I would like to begin doing some commercial programming and ADA seems like a very appealing language. However, I am concerned about a number of issues: 1. Development environments seem to be horrendously expensive. Are there any reasonably priced (for me this means probably sub $1000) compilers/IDEs available? 2. Are there any licencing issues with using the gnat compiler for commercial work? 3. Is interest in ADA increasing/remaining steady/decreasing? For example, will ADA still have significant support in, say, five years? 4. Are there any graphics libraries which are supported on multiple platforms (preferably Windows, Linux, Mac OS X, Solaris)? Thanks, Tony ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: Seeking advice 2003-02-09 5:36 Seeking advice Tony @ 2003-02-09 11:35 ` Preben Randhol 2003-02-10 17:14 ` Wojtek Narczynski 2003-02-09 13:02 ` Jeffrey Creem 1 sibling, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread From: Preben Randhol @ 2003-02-09 11:35 UTC (permalink / raw) Tony wrote: > My apologies in advance if some of these questions have been answered > recently or are contained in a FAQ that I should have read before posting :) > > I would like to begin doing some commercial programming and ADA seems like a > very appealing language. However, I am concerned about a number of issues: Ada not ADA. Ada is a name not a Three Letter Abbreviation > 1. Development environments seem to be horrendously expensive. Are there > any reasonably priced (for me this means probably sub $1000) compilers/IDEs > available? GNAT > 2. Are there any licencing issues with using the gnat compiler for > commercial work? No > 3. Is interest in ADA increasing/remaining steady/decreasing? For example, > will ADA still have significant support in, say, five years? Hard to say anything about five years. Maybe C/C++ is ban by law by then for all I know, but I hope I still can fly airplanes with Ada inside. I have also noticed that people from the mobile/telecommunication companies; Nokia, Ericsson, Siemens (IIRC) seem to be doing Ada. I don't know about the commercial sector, but these points I find important for growth of Ada among young people: [] Gnat is getting included in gcc [] GPS (Gnat's IDE) will hopefully be released to the public [] Kdeveloper getting Ada support [] GtkAda [] Gnade and APQ [] SDL bindings [] AdaXML [] And a standard library for dealing with list etc... > 4. Are there any graphics libraries which are supported on multiple > platforms (preferably Windows, Linux, Mac OS X, Solaris)? GtkAda and SDL are your best bets. -- Preben Randhol ---------------- http://www.pvv.org/~randhol/ -- "Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent", Isaac Asimov ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: Seeking advice 2003-02-09 11:35 ` Preben Randhol @ 2003-02-10 17:14 ` Wojtek Narczynski 0 siblings, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Wojtek Narczynski @ 2003-02-10 17:14 UTC (permalink / raw) Preben Randhol <randhol+news@pvv.org> wrote in message news:<slrnb4cf78.uk.randhol+news@kiuk0152.chembio.ntnu.no>... > I don't know about the commercial sector, but these points I find > important for growth of Ada among young people: > > [] GPS (Gnat's IDE) will hopefully be released to the public IMHO this is the candidate for the Ada killer-app we've all been talking about... Regards, Wojtek ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: Seeking advice 2003-02-09 5:36 Seeking advice Tony 2003-02-09 11:35 ` Preben Randhol @ 2003-02-09 13:02 ` Jeffrey Creem 2003-02-10 12:44 ` Marin David Condic 1 sibling, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread From: Jeffrey Creem @ 2003-02-09 13:02 UTC (permalink / raw) "Tony" <talktotony@email.com> wrote in message news:ANl1a.5470$Xo.18510@news-server.bigpond.net.au... > 1. Development environments seem to be horrendously expensive. Are there > any reasonably priced (for me this means probably sub $1000) compilers/IDEs > available? Compiler including GUI builder from rrsoftware $295 Object Ada for WIndows from Aonix < $1000 GNAT $Free AdaGIde for Windows (http://www.usafa.af.mil/dfcs/bios/mcc_html/adagide.html) Free Never have had to debug a single array bounds error in >10 years of professional programming... Priceless > 2. Are there any licencing issues with using the gnat compiler for > commercial work? No > 3. Is interest in ADA increasing/remaining steady/decreasing? For example, > will ADA still have significant support in, say, five years? Support in 5 years..Yes.. Increasing/Decressing.. Unclear..Within 5 years Sun will be gone. Java will be a memory. Everyone will be using .Net and C# (or A# :).... Ok..I have no way of knowing this but I think there is a better chance that there will be significant Ada support available in 5 years than there is that Sun will be around and strong. > 4. Are there any graphics libraries which are supported on multiple > platforms (preferably Windows, Linux, Mac OS X, Solaris)? GtkAda...But if you really mean supported then we start talking some more cash with some expensive support contracts. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: Seeking advice 2003-02-09 13:02 ` Jeffrey Creem @ 2003-02-10 12:44 ` Marin David Condic 2003-02-10 13:22 ` [OT] Just taunting us, Marin ? :-) Larry Kilgallen 0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread From: Marin David Condic @ 2003-02-10 12:44 UTC (permalink / raw) Jeffrey Creem <jeff@thecreems.com> wrote in message news:Rjs1a.41363$2H6.1100@sccrnsc04... > > 3. Is interest in ADA increasing/remaining steady/decreasing? For > example, > > will ADA still have significant support in, say, five years? > > Support in 5 years..Yes.. Increasing/Decressing.. Unclear..Within 5 years > Sun will be gone. Java will be a memory. Everyone will be using .Net and C# > (or A# :).... Ok..I have no way of knowing this but I think there is a > better chance that there will be significant Ada support available in 5 > years than there is that Sun will be around and strong. > Its impossible to know the future, but you've got to figure that there are enough large-scale, long lived projects done in Ada that it isn't going to go away any time soon. With GNAT out there in source form, support becomes less of an issue because you can always do it yourself or pay someone to do it for you if you really find a desparate need. (O.K., it gets more expensive, but you are not high & dry.) Besides, I really don't know why there is such a hand wringing over support anyway. You typically may need *some* support in the early stages of a project but once the project matures, you're not in trouble with an unsupported product because you aren't doing much but tweaking and fixing things anyway. If you're constantly starting new jobs in Ada, then hey, you're the customer base keeping the supporting companies alive! :-) Besides, it would seem that we've been getting increased traffic on this newsgroup over time so maybe Ada is on an upswing? > > > 4. Are there any graphics libraries which are supported on multiple > > platforms (preferably Windows, Linux, Mac OS X, Solaris)? > > GtkAda...But if you really mean supported then we start talking some more > cash with some expensive support contracts. > That depends on what the meaning of the word "Graphics Libraries" is... GtkAda is going to be pretty suitable for building GUIs and maybe some light duty 2D kind of drawing (although I've never used it for that, so I can't say for sure...) If someone wants to do some kind of slick, 3D animations and the like, I'm pretty sure GtkAda is going to fall short. If there is a need for more sophisticated graphics, Ada should be able to bind to most commercial libraries that are out there. Its possible commercial vendors may have bindings already built. That's kind of a lousy answer because the interface may be very unnatural for Ada and it creates more work and means you're always lagging behind with new releases of the library. If you get enough advantages from Ada on the rest of the app, it may be worth biting the bullet on the graphics library. MDC -- ====================================================================== Marin David Condic I work for: http://www.belcan.com/ My project is: http://www.jast.mil/ Send Replies To: m c o n d i c @ a c m . o r g "Going cold turkey isn't as delicious as it sounds." -- H. Simpson ====================================================================== ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* [OT] Just taunting us, Marin ? :-) 2003-02-10 12:44 ` Marin David Condic @ 2003-02-10 13:22 ` Larry Kilgallen 2003-02-11 12:26 ` Marin David Condic 0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread From: Larry Kilgallen @ 2003-02-10 13:22 UTC (permalink / raw) In article <b286s7$q4a$1@slb9.atl.mindspring.net>, "Marin David Condic" <mcondic.auntie.spam@acm.org> writes: > ====================================================================== > Marin David Condic > I work for: http://www.belcan.com/ > My project is: http://www.jast.mil/ NEWS> spawn nslookup www.jast.mil <End of Display> Spawning subprocess Server: LOCALHOST Address: 127.0.0.1 *** LOCALHOST can't find WWW.JAST.MIL: Non-existent host/domain <Return> to continue NEWS ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: [OT] Just taunting us, Marin ? :-) 2003-02-10 13:22 ` [OT] Just taunting us, Marin ? :-) Larry Kilgallen @ 2003-02-11 12:26 ` Marin David Condic 2003-02-11 12:36 ` Larry Kilgallen 0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread From: Marin David Condic @ 2003-02-11 12:26 UTC (permalink / raw) Funny. It *used* to work when I fisrst started this job! :-) A quick pass at Google indicates that perhaps one would be better served by going to http://www.jsf.mil/ and I'll have to update my .sig accordingly. Thanks. MDC -- ====================================================================== Marin David Condic I work for: http://www.belcan.com/ My project is: http://www.jsf.mil/ Send Replies To: m c o n d i c @ a c m . o r g "Going cold turkey isn't as delicious as it sounds." -- H. Simpson ====================================================================== Larry Kilgallen <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message news:1KCslHg1wgeK@eisner.encompasserve.org... > In article <b286s7$q4a$1@slb9.atl.mindspring.net>, "Marin David Condic" <mcondic.auntie.spam@acm.org> writes: > > > ====================================================================== > > Marin David Condic > > I work for: http://www.belcan.com/ > > My project is: http://www.jast.mil/ > > NEWS> spawn nslookup www.jast.mil > <End of Display> > > > Spawning subprocess > Server: LOCALHOST > Address: 127.0.0.1 > > *** LOCALHOST can't find WWW.JAST.MIL: Non-existent host/domain > > <Return> to continue NEWS ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: [OT] Just taunting us, Marin ? :-) 2003-02-11 12:26 ` Marin David Condic @ 2003-02-11 12:36 ` Larry Kilgallen 2003-02-12 12:38 ` Marin David Condic 0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread From: Larry Kilgallen @ 2003-02-11 12:36 UTC (permalink / raw) In article <b2aq74$umd$1@slb9.atl.mindspring.net>, "Marin David Condic" <mcondic.auntie.spam@acm.org> writes: > Funny. It *used* to work when I fisrst started this job! :-) > > A quick pass at Google indicates that perhaps one would be better served by > going to http://www.jsf.mil/ and I'll have to update my .sig accordingly. Well that one has a Program Management & Milestones frame that ends in 1999, somewhat less up-to-date than a PBS rerun I saw this week. The rest of the frame relies on lots of JavaScript so it does nothing with a secured browser. I hope you folks working on the project do a better job than those working on the website... ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: [OT] Just taunting us, Marin ? :-) 2003-02-11 12:36 ` Larry Kilgallen @ 2003-02-12 12:38 ` Marin David Condic 2003-02-12 12:46 ` Larry Kilgallen 0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread From: Marin David Condic @ 2003-02-12 12:38 UTC (permalink / raw) That was the result of a quickie Google search on "Joint Strike Fighter". It quickly succeeded in killing Netscape for me - but that's no big surprise considering I'm using an old version on an old computer and it was probably written in C. :-) I don't know who is doing the website or if there is one that is more up to date than the Concept Demonstrator Aircraft (CDA) that were covered in the Nova special. All I can say for sure is that the program is quite alive and well even if their website is not. The Nova special on PBS was pretty cool, but (for selfish ego reasons) I wish they covered the engines a bit more. At the moment, I'm working on a variant of the lift system that will allow engine interchangeability between Pratt & GE. The control operates the lift fan, roll posts and the really cool 3BSD nozzle on the back. I've got .mpg and .avi files showing the nozzle in operation and it just gets really amazing that we can swing that big, heavy thing around so quickly and nothing breaks. It *is* proof that Ada is capable of doing low-level, embedded, hard-realtime work for those who don't wish to believe it. (How's that for getting back on topic? :-) I suspect the program office is interested in keeping up public support for the JSF, so chances are they will get their website fixed. Perhaps it can be accessed using a different browser & I may try to check that out. Dropping a note to them (assuming you can find an e-mail address) might help. MDC -- ====================================================================== Marin David Condic I work for: http://www.belcan.com/ My project is: http://www.jsf.mil/ Send Replies To: m c o n d i c @ a c m . o r g "Going cold turkey isn't as delicious as it sounds." -- H. Simpson ====================================================================== Larry Kilgallen <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message news:98WhG4FaIEx9@eisner.encompasserve.org... > > Well that one has a Program Management & Milestones frame that ends in 1999, > somewhat less up-to-date than a PBS rerun I saw this week. > > The rest of the frame relies on lots of JavaScript so it does nothing with > a secured browser. > > I hope you folks working on the project do a better job than those working > on the website... ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: [OT] Just taunting us, Marin ? :-) 2003-02-12 12:38 ` Marin David Condic @ 2003-02-12 12:46 ` Larry Kilgallen 0 siblings, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Larry Kilgallen @ 2003-02-12 12:46 UTC (permalink / raw) In article <b2df97$1df$1@slb2.atl.mindspring.net>, "Marin David Condic" <mcondic.auntie.spam@acm.org> writes: > The Nova special on PBS was pretty cool, but (for selfish ego reasons) I > wish they covered the engines a bit more. You should be proud - journalists try to concentrate on problem areas :-) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2003-02-12 12:46 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 10+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2003-02-09 5:36 Seeking advice Tony 2003-02-09 11:35 ` Preben Randhol 2003-02-10 17:14 ` Wojtek Narczynski 2003-02-09 13:02 ` Jeffrey Creem 2003-02-10 12:44 ` Marin David Condic 2003-02-10 13:22 ` [OT] Just taunting us, Marin ? :-) Larry Kilgallen 2003-02-11 12:26 ` Marin David Condic 2003-02-11 12:36 ` Larry Kilgallen 2003-02-12 12:38 ` Marin David Condic 2003-02-12 12:46 ` Larry Kilgallen
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