Re: ada IDE

["Chip and Allie Orange" <acorange@comcast.net>]

"Jeffrey Creem" <jeff@thecreems.com> wrote in message 
news:15rtl3-d12.ln1@newserver.thecreems.com...
> Chip and Allie Orange wrote:
>> "Jeffrey Creem" <jeff@thecreems.com> wrote in message 
>> news:da9gh3-p7k.ln1@newserver.thecreems.com...
>>
>>>Ananth the Boss wrote:
>>>
>>>>we are involved in development of safety critical software for flight
>>>>apps. can ny one say which is the best IDE for ADA for development of
>>>>flight software
>>>>
>>>
>>>If you are doing safety critical software (assuming you mean something 
>>>like DO-178b level a or b) then the IDE is really secondary to the 
>>>compiler/runtime. Pick that first and it will help guide you to an IDE. 
>>>You probably can't pick the compiler/runtime (or perhaps OS) until you 
>>>know what your hardware platform is (unless there is some flexibility 
>>>there).
>>>
>>>If you select something like Greenhills Ada with the Integrity OS then it 
>>>would be silly to consider GPS.
>>>
>>>There is really not enough in the question to respond to this all that 
>>>clearly.
>>>
>>>
>>>The high level choices will be something from
>>>
>>>Greenhills/Greenhills
>>>www.ghs.com (perhaps integrity (OS) with AdaMULT (compiler).
>>>or
>>>
>>>WindRiver/AdaCore
>>>www.wrs.com with www.gnat.com (vxWorks with the ARINC 653 with GNAT).
>>>
>>>or
>>>
>>>BAE Systems/DDC-I
>>>
>>>http://platformsolutions.na.baesystems.com:8080/CsLeos/CsLEOS.jsp
>>>
>>>or
>>>
>>>Aonix/Aonix
>>>
>>>http://www.aonix.com/objectada.html
>>>
>>>
>>>There might also be someting in the lynxos/GNAT cagegory to consider..not 
>>>sure.
>>>
>>>In any case, these seem to be the big players in the area.
>>>
>>
>> I'm just learning Ada for some after-hours programming (not my day job). 
>> I have a relative who works for the IBM/Rational group which puts out the 
>> Ada Apex system.
>>
>> Just out of curiosity, why wouldn't they make your list?
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Chip
>>
>>
>>
>
> Good question. Truthfully, I probably should have included them.
>
> I still use Apex in my day job (an older version of it)..There certainly 
> are some nice features about it even though (at least the version I use) 
> is really starting to show its age it is interesting that it has taken 
> many years for other languages/tools/ide's to catch up to the level of 
> integration that Apex had more than 10 years ago.
>
> So, there certainly are some positives for this tool suite.
>
> As for the negatives that probably partially led to me just forgetting to 
> list them...
>
> It appears that every time you contact ibm/rational sales to buy a tool 
> they want to "craft a solution" for you that involves both expensive 
> tools, expensive support services and a pile of things you don't want or 
> need.
>
>
> For example, take a look at the "off the shelf" options for Apex
>
> http://www3.software.ibm.com/ibmdl/pub/software/rational/web/datasheets/ada.pdf
>
> There are four choices.
>
> The base edition is not right for the original question since one can 
> reasonably assume the need of a cross compiler (because this is embedded 
> flight software).
>
> The "Embedded Developer" edition would just about fit the bill, but it is 
> listed as "Solaris" only in the PDF file. This is generally a code word 
> for "dead product we only still list because we still can manage to pawn 
> off licenses on some legacy customer".
>
> Each of the other two versions have "Enterprise" in the title. This is a 
> code word for "big expensive tool that includes a lot of stuff that you 
> probably don't want but allows is to bundle things to prevent you from 
> justifying the use of the tools you really want from a different vendor".
>
> In this case, it means it includes Rational Rose, TestMate, etc. (And of 
> course Rose is slowly heading out since there are newer IBM design tools).
>
>
> There are probably projects/companies for which this approach to selling 
> tools works out really well. For me, it seems like their Ada products (or 
> truthfully any of their single products) get lost in the noise of the 
> "craft a solution" approach that the sales staff shows up with when 
> talking about tools.
>
> Here is another example. Interested in trials/beta's of the software.
>
> Go here
> http://www14.software.ibm.com/webapp/download/home.jsp?s=p
>
> Hmm. No apex, no Ada, nothing embedded at all. But if you are maintaining 
> a website  there is all sorts of stuff here.. I wonder where people get 
> the idea that there is no commitment from the vendor to support the 
> product...must just be me.
>
> Now again, to be fair, this probably has as much to do with the types of 
> customers that want those tools as it does with the commitment tool any 
> particular tool...
>
> Finally, here is the last reason.
>
> Go to www.ibm.com - See the word Ada on the page...Hmm... Nope. Ok..Big 
> company, click on software. See the work ada on the page...Nope..Ok big 
> company. Click on products  by category. See the word Ada on the page? 
> Nope, ok. Lots of tools. Click "Traditional Programming Languages". See 
> the word Ada on the page? Yes!.. Yippie Got there. Of course, once you 
> clock the "Learn About" link, the most up to date thing on the page looks 
> like some announcement about IBM Rational Ada Developer Interface for AXI 
> which is bindings for X-Windows Motif.....It feels so 90's.
>
>
> Finally, even after a lot of clicking, one never does see any mention of 
> DO-178B/Ada on any page and remember that was what the original poster was 
> looking for.
>
>
> Now, compare this to the other vendors I listed.
>
> www.ghs.com - Ada on front page. DO-178B on front page
>
> www.gnat.com - Ada allover the front page, new vxWorks on the front page 
> (Active development). Ada 2006 information on front page (Active 
> development) safety-critical on front page (original poster question). 
> do-178b on front page.
>
>
> csLEOS link combined with DDCI-compiler.
> Ok. DO-178B on front page of Csleos link (no area but this is the OS 
> company), Going to the compiler vendor Ada on front page. Safety critical 
> on front page.
>
>
> Going to Aonix. Ada on front page, DO-178B on front page.
>
> So, all-in-all I think I stand by my original list which excluded IBM 
> Apex. If the poster had just asked for "list some Ada IDEs" then maybe I 
> would have listed them even giving the general concerns I have with the 
> vendor.
>
> But given that the original question was safety critical Ada, I think it 
> was the right choice.
>
>
>

Thanks Jeffrey  for your thoughts ... Didn't mean to imply any criticism of 
your list, just needed some education and some opinions from someone not 
working for a vendor.

Chip