* RE: [OT] Switching to Linux (was: Microsoft takes on ACT) [not found] <200205271123050730.002B2970@smtp-po.inetia.pl> @ 2002-05-28 14:13 ` Robert C. Leif 2002-05-29 22:47 ` chris.danx 0 siblings, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread From: Robert C. Leif @ 2002-05-28 14:13 UTC (permalink / raw) From: Bob Leif To: Michal Nowak et al. An XML based GUI that was powered by Ada including the use of protected types and tasking could be much easier to use than Windows. This XML GUI would also be much more reliable and efficient than Windows. Incidentally for normal mortals, I highly recommend EasyDesktop www.microseconds.com It employs a revolutionary GUI based on words. No icons. This makes it very easy to use for those of us who were educated with a Western alphabet. As for the device drivers, writing them in Ada should facilitate their reuse in multiple similar products, such as graphics boards. Eventually XSL FOP could be part of the driver for both printers and graphics boards. -----Original Message----- From: comp.lang.ada-admin@ada.eu.org [mailto:comp.lang.ada-admin@ada.eu.org] On Behalf Of Michal Nowak Sent: Monday, May 27, 2002 2:23 AM To: comp.lang.ada usegroup->mailing list gateway Subject: Re: [OT] Switching to Linux (was: Microsoft takes on ACT) On 2002-05-26 at 09:37 Preben Randhol wrote: >The point is that the Linux developers have to figure out for themselves >how a device works unless the company developing this device wants to >share their documentation. Now device drivers are made for Windows by >the companies producing them so installing some brand new hardware can >be much easier on Windows. Yes, I know that. That is real pain for Linux users. I signed a petition some months ago directed to hardware manufacturers. It was a request that they notice growing Linux community and cooperate with Linux developers to create device drivers. It was on http://www.libranet.com/petition.html but it seems it is closed now. However Polish version still exists. I hope they succeeded in collecting enough signatures to be noticed. >When speaking about the ease of installation, on seem to forget that this >may not be so important. Example: my father uses Linux because of all >the Windows viruses and all the problems he got using Windows. I >installed Windows for him as he had no computer experience. And later I >installed Linux. All he has to concern himself with is to use the >computer for that he wants to do. He doesn't have to bother with the >underlaying drivers etc... And he has no problem with Linux compared to >Windows. I do not claim that Linux is unusable for non-cs people, but there was my observation. What I saw is, if they had no "click-click-do-all-for-me -graphical-wizard", they fell lost/are too lazy(?)/want more convenience in using system. It reminds me some post we had on CLA concerning GUIs - "click-click-do-all-for-me-graphical-environment". Well... Cheers, Mike "In the world of machines, virtual machines, dominated by software ... ... a new culture is born" ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* Re: [OT] Switching to Linux (was: Microsoft takes on ACT) 2002-05-28 14:13 ` [OT] Switching to Linux (was: Microsoft takes on ACT) Robert C. Leif @ 2002-05-29 22:47 ` chris.danx 2002-05-29 23:08 ` chris.danx ` (2 more replies) 0 siblings, 3 replies; 15+ messages in thread From: chris.danx @ 2002-05-29 22:47 UTC (permalink / raw) "Robert C. Leif" <rleif@rleif.com> wrote in message news:mailman.1022595242.12403.comp.lang.ada@ada.eu.org... > From: Bob Leif > To: Michal Nowak et al. > > An XML based GUI that was powered by Ada including the use of protected > types and tasking could be much easier to use than Windows. This XML GUI > would also be much more reliable and efficient than Windows. Can you provide some details of XML guis or your thoughts? (or are they a secret, incase someone rips off your ideas?) This has popped up once or twice here in the past, but there hasn't been much debate or indeed provided information on the marrying of XML and a GUI. > Incidentally for normal mortals, I highly recommend EasyDesktop > www.microseconds.com > It employs a revolutionary GUI based on words. No icons. This makes it > very easy to use for those of us who were educated with a Western > alphabet. it's a bit *different*, eh? > As for the device drivers, writing them in Ada should facilitate their > reuse in multiple similar products, such as graphics boards. Eventually > XSL FOP could be part of the driver for both printers and graphics > boards. Some OS developers in aod have taken an interest in UDI, Ada might be a perfect partner to this but since I don't know what UDI specifies in terms of types (if anything) I can't say whether there would be a great benefit in a mix of the two. Depending on how things go this summer, I hope to have a small microkernel (think L4 small) finally in development. Nick Roberts (right second name? apologies to Nick if it isn't) is also planning a microkernel and it'll be interesting to contrast the designs; which can only improve each others efforts (although it will help to bare in mind that the projects aim to meet different requirements, with each design reflecting this. Obvious, but better said than left to chance). Chris ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* Re: [OT] Switching to Linux (was: Microsoft takes on ACT) 2002-05-29 22:47 ` chris.danx @ 2002-05-29 23:08 ` chris.danx 2002-05-30 6:35 ` Robert C. Leif 2002-05-30 13:25 ` Marin David Condic 2 siblings, 0 replies; 15+ messages in thread From: chris.danx @ 2002-05-29 23:08 UTC (permalink / raw) "chris.danx" <spamoff.danx@ntlworld.com> wrote in message news:pUcJ8.1671$D3.149718@news8-gui.server.ntli.net... > > Some OS developers in aod have taken an interest in UDI, Ada might be a > perfect partner to this but since I don't know what UDI specifies in terms > of types (if anything) I can't say whether there would be a great benefit in > a mix of the two. Something I forgot which may be of interest to some is Devil (maybe it's been mentioned before). This is an idl for specifying programming interfaces to hardware via abstractions. At present the thing seems to have stalled, perhaps if there was enough interest inria might put it into the open and it could be modified to generate Ada code instead of C. a page is available at http://compose.labri.u-bordeaux.fr/prototypes/devil/specs/ for any who find this concept interesting? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* RE: [OT] Switching to Linux (was: Microsoft takes on ACT) 2002-05-29 22:47 ` chris.danx 2002-05-29 23:08 ` chris.danx @ 2002-05-30 6:35 ` Robert C. Leif 2002-05-30 13:25 ` Marin David Condic 2 siblings, 0 replies; 15+ messages in thread From: Robert C. Leif @ 2002-05-30 6:35 UTC (permalink / raw) From: Bob Leif To: Chris Danx et al. Absolutely, no secret! I spoke about it at my XML workshop at SIGAda 2001 and submitted a paper to Ada Letters. If anyone wants a copy, write to me directly. -----Original Message----- From: comp.lang.ada-admin@ada.eu.org [mailto:comp.lang.ada-admin@ada.eu.org] On Behalf Of chris.danx Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2002 3:48 PM To: comp.lang.ada@ada.eu.org Subject: Re: [OT] Switching to Linux (was: Microsoft takes on ACT) "Robert C. Leif" <rleif@rleif.com> wrote in message news:mailman.1022595242.12403.comp.lang.ada@ada.eu.org... > From: Bob Leif > To: Michal Nowak et al. > > An XML based GUI that was powered by Ada including the use of protected > types and tasking could be much easier to use than Windows. This XML GUI > would also be much more reliable and efficient than Windows. Can you provide some details of XML guis or your thoughts? (or are they a secret, incase someone rips off your ideas?) This has popped up once or twice here in the past, but there hasn't been much debate or indeed provided information on the marrying of XML and a GUI. > Incidentally for normal mortals, I highly recommend EasyDesktop > www.microseconds.com > It employs a revolutionary GUI based on words. No icons. This makes it > very easy to use for those of us who were educated with a Western > alphabet. it's a bit *different*, eh? > As for the device drivers, writing them in Ada should facilitate their > reuse in multiple similar products, such as graphics boards. Eventually > XSL FOP could be part of the driver for both printers and graphics > boards. Some OS developers in aod have taken an interest in UDI, Ada might be a perfect partner to this but since I don't know what UDI specifies in terms of types (if anything) I can't say whether there would be a great benefit in a mix of the two. Depending on how things go this summer, I hope to have a small microkernel (think L4 small) finally in development. Nick Roberts (right second name? apologies to Nick if it isn't) is also planning a microkernel and it'll be interesting to contrast the designs; which can only improve each others efforts (although it will help to bare in mind that the projects aim to meet different requirements, with each design reflecting this. Obvious, but better said than left to chance). Chris ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* Re: [OT] Switching to Linux (was: Microsoft takes on ACT) 2002-05-29 22:47 ` chris.danx 2002-05-29 23:08 ` chris.danx 2002-05-30 6:35 ` Robert C. Leif @ 2002-05-30 13:25 ` Marin David Condic 2002-05-31 4:29 ` Robert C. Leif 2 siblings, 1 reply; 15+ messages in thread From: Marin David Condic @ 2002-05-30 13:25 UTC (permalink / raw) I have not looked at this extensively, but there are a couple of things that might apply. XUL is a XML based markup language that aims at describing user interfaces. I think XForms is something similar - but I don't think these are highly solidified yet. The basic idea here would be to have *some* (TBD) XML based markup language that described the GUI. (Note that GtkAda does this) When the GUI is interacted with, data could be returned to the application in some XML-based format. (I think Bob Leif sees a strong correlation between the kinds of data descriptions possible in XML and Ada so it would be fairly straightforward to line up data coming out of XML and into Ada structures. But I wouldn't want to presume to speak for Bob - read his Ada Letters article.) So it would be possible to envision an Ada GUI building scenario that had XML for the markup of the GUI (enabling the possible use of all sorts of off-the-shelf tools) and XML for the transfer of data between the GUI engine and the Ada application. This would give you platform independent GUI capabilities and the possibility of having applications easily operate on a client/server model. (The GUI-driving engine need not be on the same platform as the back-end Ada application - they just need to transfer XML between each other.) Its an interesting idea but it would be a lot of work to pull it all together. MDC -- Marin David Condic Senior Software Engineer Pace Micro Technology Americas www.pacemicro.com Enabling the digital revolution e-Mail: marin.condic@pacemicro.com "chris.danx" <spamoff.danx@ntlworld.com> wrote in message news:pUcJ8.1671$D3.149718@news8-gui.server.ntli.net... > > Can you provide some details of XML guis or your thoughts? (or are they a > secret, incase someone rips off your ideas?) This has popped up once or > twice here in the past, but there hasn't been much debate or indeed provided > information on the marrying of XML and a GUI. > > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* RE: [OT] Switching to Linux (was: Microsoft takes on ACT) 2002-05-30 13:25 ` Marin David Condic @ 2002-05-31 4:29 ` Robert C. Leif 2002-05-31 18:37 ` Pascal Obry 2002-06-01 0:36 ` chris.danx 0 siblings, 2 replies; 15+ messages in thread From: Robert C. Leif @ 2002-05-31 4:29 UTC (permalink / raw) From: Bob Leif To: Marin David Condic et al. I agree about reading my Ada Letters article. However, if someone is motivated to do something, I will gladly send them a preprint. I agree, "Its an interesting idea but it would be a lot of work to pull it all together." Hopefully, it would be very profitable. The creation of an XForms package that was bootstrapped using the relevant parts of XSL and/or SVG would permit the development of an XML based GUI. An Ada tool that creates a thick binding to a GUI, such as Windows, could be morphed into an XML tool. It could even employ Adobe's SVG browser plug-in. XMLSpy (www.xmlspy.com) sells for $399 and they claim that they have 525,710 users worldwide. That is just under $210 million. Obviously, not all of XMLSpy's users paid retail. However, I suspect that their gross is pretty good compared to the overall Ada market. XMLSpy, as of yet, can not do XForms. The use of Ada should provide a significant competitive advantage over C based languages. -----Original Message----- From: comp.lang.ada-admin@ada.eu.org [mailto:comp.lang.ada-admin@ada.eu.org] On Behalf Of Marin David Condic Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 6:25 AM To: comp.lang.ada@ada.eu.org Subject: Re: [OT] Switching to Linux (was: Microsoft takes on ACT) I have not looked at this extensively, but there are a couple of things that might apply. XUL is a XML based markup language that aims at describing user interfaces. I think XForms is something similar - but I don't think these are highly solidified yet. The basic idea here would be to have *some* (TBD) XML based markup language that described the GUI. (Note that GtkAda does this) When the GUI is interacted with, data could be returned to the application in some XML-based format. (I think Bob Leif sees a strong correlation between the kinds of data descriptions possible in XML and Ada so it would be fairly straightforward to line up data coming out of XML and into Ada structures. But I wouldn't want to presume to speak for Bob - read his Ada Letters article.) So it would be possible to envision an Ada GUI building scenario that had XML for the markup of the GUI (enabling the possible use of all sorts of off-the-shelf tools) and XML for the transfer of data between the GUI engine and the Ada application. This would give you platform independent GUI capabilities and the possibility of having applications easily operate on a client/server model. (The GUI-driving engine need not be on the same platform as the back-end Ada application - they just need to transfer XML between each other.) Its an interesting idea but it would be a lot of work to pull it all together. MDC -- Marin David Condic Senior Software Engineer Pace Micro Technology Americas www.pacemicro.com Enabling the digital revolution e-Mail: marin.condic@pacemicro.com "chris.danx" <spamoff.danx@ntlworld.com> wrote in message news:pUcJ8.1671$D3.149718@news8-gui.server.ntli.net... > > Can you provide some details of XML guis or your thoughts? (or are they a > secret, incase someone rips off your ideas?) This has popped up once or > twice here in the past, but there hasn't been much debate or indeed provided > information on the marrying of XML and a GUI. > > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* Re: [OT] Switching to Linux (was: Microsoft takes on ACT) 2002-05-31 4:29 ` Robert C. Leif @ 2002-05-31 18:37 ` Pascal Obry 2002-06-01 0:36 ` chris.danx 1 sibling, 0 replies; 15+ messages in thread From: Pascal Obry @ 2002-05-31 18:37 UTC (permalink / raw) I have seen a lot of time now reference to Ada, XML and GUI. You have claimed that this will be the best way to build GUI with XSLT or Schema or XForms or SVG. I know well most of these technologies and I fail to see any relation here! Please can you describe what you have in mind ? - How Ada and XML are related ? For me they complement each others like coffee and Milk... - How to build a GUI based on Ada + XML/XSLT ? - Which kind of widget set will you use ? The one on the browser are just too simple for complexe applications. I think that the list of technology is missing JavaScript. This is the way to have dynamic on the client side... Ada is nowhere to play a role here... Ada is good on the server side and middleware... So again where do you see Ada on this ? And no I have not yet read your article :), if the answers are there please send it to me, thanks. Pascal. -- --|------------------------------------------------------ --| Pascal Obry Team-Ada Member --| 45, rue Gabriel Peri - 78114 Magny Les Hameaux FRANCE --|------------------------------------------------------ --| http://perso.wanadoo.fr/pascal.obry --| "The best way to travel is by means of imagination" --| --| gpg --keyserver wwwkeys.pgp.net --recv-key C1082595 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* Re: [OT] Switching to Linux (was: Microsoft takes on ACT) 2002-05-31 4:29 ` Robert C. Leif 2002-05-31 18:37 ` Pascal Obry @ 2002-06-01 0:36 ` chris.danx 2002-06-01 0:39 ` Darren New 2002-06-01 14:31 ` Publishing Jargon was " Robert C. Leif 1 sibling, 2 replies; 15+ messages in thread From: chris.danx @ 2002-06-01 0:36 UTC (permalink / raw) "Robert C. Leif" <rleif@rleif.com> wrote in message news:mailman.1022819409.14626.comp.lang.ada@ada.eu.org... > From: Bob Leif > To: Marin David Condic et al. > I agree about reading my Ada Letters article. However, if someone is > motivated to do something, I will gladly send them a preprint. Forgive my stupidity but what is a preprint? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* Re: [OT] Switching to Linux (was: Microsoft takes on ACT) 2002-06-01 0:36 ` chris.danx @ 2002-06-01 0:39 ` Darren New 2002-06-01 14:31 ` Publishing Jargon was " Robert C. Leif 1 sibling, 0 replies; 15+ messages in thread From: Darren New @ 2002-06-01 0:39 UTC (permalink / raw) "chris.danx" wrote: > > "Robert C. Leif" <rleif@rleif.com> wrote in message > news:mailman.1022819409.14626.comp.lang.ada@ada.eu.org... > > From: Bob Leif > > To: Marin David Condic et al. > > I agree about reading my Ada Letters article. However, if someone is > > motivated to do something, I will gladly send them a preprint. > > Forgive my stupidity but what is a preprint? It's a reprint, only before it's published instead of after. -- Darren New San Diego, CA, USA (PST). Cryptokeys on demand. ** http://home.san.rr.com/dnew/DNResume.html ** ** http://images.fbrtech.com/dnew/ ** My brain needs a "back" button so I can remember where I left my coffee mug. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* Publishing Jargon was RE: [OT] Switching to Linux (was: Microsoft takes on ACT) 2002-06-01 0:36 ` chris.danx 2002-06-01 0:39 ` Darren New @ 2002-06-01 14:31 ` Robert C. Leif 2002-06-01 18:19 ` chris.danx 2002-06-01 21:04 ` chris.danx 1 sibling, 2 replies; 15+ messages in thread From: Robert C. Leif @ 2002-06-01 14:31 UTC (permalink / raw) From: Bob Leif To: Chris Danx et al. Actually, it is not anyone's stupidity but my use of scientific jargon. A preprint is a copy of a paper prior to its publication. It has the virtue that the author still owns the copyright. A reprint is a copy of the paper made after publication. Reprints are often printed copies of the papers, which are sold by the publishers to the authors. They were an excellent business for publishers. Parenthetically, there is another relevant term, disintermediation. This means eliminating the publisher entirely, usually by publishing the material on the web. -----Original Message----- From: comp.lang.ada-admin@ada.eu.org [mailto:comp.lang.ada-admin@ada.eu.org] On Behalf Of chris.danx Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 5:36 PM To: comp.lang.ada@ada.eu.org Subject: Re: [OT] Switching to Linux (was: Microsoft takes on ACT) "Robert C. Leif" <rleif@rleif.com> wrote in message news:mailman.1022819409.14626.comp.lang.ada@ada.eu.org... > From: Bob Leif > To: Marin David Condic et al. > I agree about reading my Ada Letters article. However, if someone is > motivated to do something, I will gladly send them a preprint. Forgive my stupidity but what is a preprint? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* Re: Publishing Jargon was RE: [OT] Switching to Linux (was: Microsoft takes on ACT) 2002-06-01 14:31 ` Publishing Jargon was " Robert C. Leif @ 2002-06-01 18:19 ` chris.danx 2002-06-01 18:32 ` chris.danx ` (2 more replies) 2002-06-01 21:04 ` chris.danx 1 sibling, 3 replies; 15+ messages in thread From: chris.danx @ 2002-06-01 18:19 UTC (permalink / raw) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert C. Leif" <rleif@rleif.com> Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Sent: Saturday, June 01, 2002 3:31 PM Subject: Publishing Jargon was RE: [OT] Switching to Linux (was: Microsoft takes on ACT) > From: Bob Leif > To: Chris Danx et al. > > Actually, it is not anyone's stupidity but my use of scientific jargon. > A preprint is a copy of a paper prior to its publication. Can you please send me a preprint of your xml gui paper? > Parenthetically, there is another relevant term, disintermediation. This > means eliminating the publisher entirely, usually by publishing the > material on the web. Recently I've wondering if there are companies or organisations that let the author retain copyright of his/her work and at the same time publish printed copies of their work. Like say someone wrote a book, and wanted to retain copyright but allow a company to sell printed copies in a contractual agreement (with provisions for change of owner of copyright, like the author approaching another company to publish it, and handing copyright to them). Just something that's been floating around upstairs for a while. Chris ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* Re: Publishing Jargon was RE: [OT] Switching to Linux (was: Microsoft takes on ACT) 2002-06-01 18:19 ` chris.danx @ 2002-06-01 18:32 ` chris.danx 2002-06-01 20:18 ` Preben Randhol 2002-06-06 1:55 ` Robert A Duff 2 siblings, 0 replies; 15+ messages in thread From: chris.danx @ 2002-06-01 18:32 UTC (permalink / raw) Stupid piece of crap! I clicked reply to sender, not reply to group! Ditto! Chris ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* Re: Publishing Jargon was RE: [OT] Switching to Linux (was: Microsoft takes on ACT) 2002-06-01 18:19 ` chris.danx 2002-06-01 18:32 ` chris.danx @ 2002-06-01 20:18 ` Preben Randhol 2002-06-06 1:55 ` Robert A Duff 2 siblings, 0 replies; 15+ messages in thread From: Preben Randhol @ 2002-06-01 20:18 UTC (permalink / raw) On Sat, 1 Jun 2002 19:19:10 +0100, chris.danx wrote: >> Actually, it is not anyone's stupidity but my use of scientific jargon. >> A preprint is a copy of a paper prior to its publication. > > Can you please send me a preprint of your xml gui paper? ^^^^^^^ Doesn't GtkAda also support this through libglade? Preben ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* Re: Publishing Jargon was RE: [OT] Switching to Linux (was: Microsoft takes on ACT) 2002-06-01 18:19 ` chris.danx 2002-06-01 18:32 ` chris.danx 2002-06-01 20:18 ` Preben Randhol @ 2002-06-06 1:55 ` Robert A Duff 2 siblings, 0 replies; 15+ messages in thread From: Robert A Duff @ 2002-06-06 1:55 UTC (permalink / raw) "chris.danx" <chris.danx@ntlworld.com> writes: > Recently I've wondering if there are companies or organisations that let the > author retain copyright of his/her work and at the same time publish printed > copies of their work. Springer-Verlag publishes a printed copy of the Ada RM, but the copyright is held by the U.S. government, with a very liberal copyright notice (which I wrote, by the way -- although I had to pass it through some lawyers). - Bob ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
* Re: Publishing Jargon was RE: [OT] Switching to Linux (was: Microsoft takes on ACT) 2002-06-01 14:31 ` Publishing Jargon was " Robert C. Leif 2002-06-01 18:19 ` chris.danx @ 2002-06-01 21:04 ` chris.danx 1 sibling, 0 replies; 15+ messages in thread From: chris.danx @ 2002-06-01 21:04 UTC (permalink / raw) apologies for sending the request to cla it wasn't my intention. I thought I'd clicked reply to sender in oe but apparently not! ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 15+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2002-06-06 1:55 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 15+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- [not found] <200205271123050730.002B2970@smtp-po.inetia.pl> 2002-05-28 14:13 ` [OT] Switching to Linux (was: Microsoft takes on ACT) Robert C. Leif 2002-05-29 22:47 ` chris.danx 2002-05-29 23:08 ` chris.danx 2002-05-30 6:35 ` Robert C. Leif 2002-05-30 13:25 ` Marin David Condic 2002-05-31 4:29 ` Robert C. Leif 2002-05-31 18:37 ` Pascal Obry 2002-06-01 0:36 ` chris.danx 2002-06-01 0:39 ` Darren New 2002-06-01 14:31 ` Publishing Jargon was " Robert C. Leif 2002-06-01 18:19 ` chris.danx 2002-06-01 18:32 ` chris.danx 2002-06-01 20:18 ` Preben Randhol 2002-06-06 1:55 ` Robert A Duff 2002-06-01 21:04 ` chris.danx
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