Re: is Ada dying?

[Robert*@ <Robert_member@newsguy.com>]

In article <3BC1305D.1C6910C@worldnet.att.net>, James says...
>
 
>I love the standard Java API classes. They are poorly documented.
>Their algorithms are completely undocumented. You only hope they do
>what you think they will. No worrys though. If a class is found to 
>be dangerous it can always be deprecated in a later release.
>

The Java classes are well documented. Much better than anything Ada has
actually.

As for the algorithms, why would you want to know the inner algorithm
for how a class or a method is implemented? The whole idea is to use 
it as a black box. Does the Ada RM describe the algorithm for the
unbounded string?

I find that I can much easier find a class in java to do something, than
I can find a function in Ada to do something.  Have you looked at the 
Java class libraries books by Patrick Chan and Rosanna Lee?  Each
class and almost each method comes with a usage example. There is nothing
like the above for Ada (or for almost anyother language actually). 
 
>>Having a central single place to get things from is a Good Thing (tm). Examples
>> of such things
>> 
>> http://www.sunfreeware.com/   <--- Want any solaris package? go here
>> http://java.sun.com    <---  Want the JDK? go here
>> http://www.gnu.org/software/java/  <--- Want the GNU java collection? go here
>> http://www.gjt.org/  <--- want the Giant Java tree collection? go here
>> 
>> etc..
>

>Wait a minute while I count my fingers and toes. It looks to me like 
>this is a list of more than one place to find everything. Am I 
>missing something here?
>

Yes, you are missing something. 

>This looks a lot like finding the Ada package you want.

No it is not. Show me an Ada site that is like java.sun.com. I know it
is not fair for Ada to ask for this, given that even C++ does not have
anything like that site, and C++ is much more used than Ada.
 
>
>Given what you describe above, I would say that Ada already has that.
>

If you think the current state of Ada packages and libraries is good
enough, I am happy for you. I am not arguing with you, I am only giving
an advice to the Ada community to help. 
 
>It also has a standard, which Java does not.

Java has a standard, it is just not an ansi nor iso. But who cares. If you
think having an iso or ansi stamp on the language will suddenly make it
popular, then I am afraid you are completly wrong. Show me the 
VB standard out there, yet millions use VB to this day. 


> Most of the Java stuff
>is in a single place because the language belongs to one company.

Programmers do not care. Programmers want support, good documentations,
good packages from one cetralized and managed place. What you call that,
is not important. The last thing I worry about with Java is that it is
controlled by Sun. 

>Java is whatever Sun says it is. Given the changes in the language
>from Java 1.0 to Java 1.1 to JDK 1.2 to JSDK 1.3 to the almost
>released JSE 1.4, I wonder which language you use when you say you
>use Java. 

I think your arguments are very week. Java has improvments being 
added to it all the time. More packages and more libraries. You seem
to think this is bad. I say, a language that does not grow and improve,
and adopt to the technolgy, will die for lack of use and interest. Note
also, most of the additions to java are in the libraries, not the 
language anc certinally not in the JVM.  Generic are being now
added to Java, and will be part of JDK 1.5.  It is a good thing.


>Don't forget that you need standard patches to do some of
>the more useful stuff. For instance, you must patch the JSE 1.3
>with JSEE 1.3 to be able to use Enterprise Java Bean technology.

No you dont. I use J2EE 1.3 on JDK 1.3 just of the box.

>This means that your client's Java Runtime Environment must
>have the compatible libraries also. A big part of your Java system
>is shipped to your customers as the Java Runtime Environment.
>This presents you with serious compatibility and upgrade issues.

I have no idea where you are comming on with all of the above. Millions
of programmers use Java all the time and each day, yet you seem to have
a problem with it.

This is not an Ada vs Java thing. If Ada programmers try to put Java
down, they are going at it the wrong way. Ada community should learn from
what makes Java popular and try to do those things for Ada.