From: "Marin David Condic" <marin.condic.auntie.spam@pacemicro.com>
Subject: Re: Proving Correctness (was Java Portability)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 09:30:26 -0400
Date: 2001-08-02T13:30:29+00:00 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <9kbkll$m73$1@nh.pace.co.uk> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 9kb7s9$hr3$1@a1-hrz.uni-duisburg.de
Just for the record, this is not me. The cut you did with my name in it must
have come from an earlier message.
MDC
--
Marin David Condic
Senior Software Engineer
Pace Micro Technology Americas www.pacemicro.com
Enabling the digital revolution
e-Mail: marin.condic@pacemicro.com
Web: http://www.mcondic.com/
"Georg Bauhaus" <sb463ba@l1-hrz.uni-duisburg.de> wrote in message
news:9kb7s9$hr3$1@a1-hrz.uni-duisburg.de...
> nicolas <n.brunot@cadwin.com> wrote:
> : "Marin David Condic" <marin.condic.auntie.spam@pacemicro.com> a ?crit
dans
> : le message news: 9k6aug$mtq$1@nh.pace.co.uk...
>
> : Where are the library components, reuse etc ... ?
>
> You're not seriously asking this?
>
> : Some Ada fans seems to deny that, without having written a single big
enough
> : Windows application, meeting interface requirements of a normal PC user.
>
>
> : They should really try to start from scratch a simple graphical Windows
> : application
> : really with nothing more that what comes with their compiler, not using
> : other tools they spent monthes to find or write themselves.
>
> 'Monthes' is by far an order of magnitude too large
> for the time it took me.
> As always, if you start at http://www.adapower.com...
>
>
> : I bet any Java debutant can provide a working application before they
have
> : made the choice of their GUI ...
>
> Choosing a GUI is a time consuming procedure if you choose not
> by taste, fashion, prestige, or hearsay, but by comparison,
> reading docs, feature lists, about extensibility, integration
> with 3rd party tools, etc.
> So that only shows that IDE can be complex, despite marketing
> departement efforts to make it look easy, geared towards the
> momentarily lazy, wishfully thinking programmer..
>
>
> (side note: given many approaches to GUIs, it is
> a question whether the choice of "standard" Windows
> applications (a very time dependent term in the Windows world :-)
> is appropriate for each and every job. See non-standard, but
> heavily used mail clients for an example.
> (And the ever changing mouse interface to system administration
> tasks drives Administrators crazy. I've been told you can get
> a nice text driven programmable interface form M$ for some $$$$. :-)
>
>
> : The first thing to do, is starting to aknowledge that people using
popular
> : languages are not completely stupid, that their concerns are valid ones,
>
> Yes, valid, but not technical ones for the most part, if you
> accept that multi language programs are a reality. As you
> implied, it took someone time to find libraries, you find it
> inconvenient to not be given beforehand what you might be after,
> and more. Indeed if you can chose your tool collection
> from various providers, there might be some work ahead, like
> configuring a more recent GTK+ in a non-standard directory,
> if necessary, say. Tedious. An alternative is an all-in-one
> solution from one provider, most likely M$. Good for quick hacks,
> and one time products, but, to stress the term "standard" in M$
> universe, for investment in long term projects?
>
> All these are convenience concerns, aren't they.
>
> : that there is absolutely no valid reason to miss basic standard tools.
>
> Could you define this term, please?
>
> WRT to GUI, there is good and valid reason on the ground
> of user interface research (which is an activity not constrained
> to the current Windows GUI or to computer science),
> and it is done, see touch screens in
> shops or train stations. They may or may not be windows like.
>
> If you restrict Ada programs to "standard
> Windows applications" and base your observations cencerning
> Ada programming environments on this,
> this isn't really a broad base for you arguments?
>
> -- Georg
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2001-08-02 13:30 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 198+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2001-07-20 16:50 An Ada IDE and discussions Beard, Frank
2001-07-20 19:19 ` Ted Dennison
2001-07-23 8:26 ` nicolas
2001-07-23 8:53 ` Java portability (was: An Ada IDE and discussions) Jean-Pierre Rosen
2001-07-23 9:32 ` Gerhard Häring
2001-07-23 11:26 ` Jean-Pierre Rosen
2001-07-24 18:59 ` Florian Weimer
2001-07-25 8:40 ` Jean-Pierre Rosen
2001-07-25 10:23 ` David C. Hoos, Sr.
2001-07-25 20:50 ` Florian Weimer
2001-07-26 8:07 ` Jean-Pierre Rosen
2001-07-23 9:48 ` nicolas
2001-07-23 11:23 ` Jean-Pierre Rosen
2001-07-23 12:07 ` nicolas
2001-07-23 13:57 ` Jean-Pierre Rosen
2001-07-23 16:55 ` Marc A. Criley
2001-07-24 9:26 ` nicolas
2001-07-24 12:19 ` Marc A. Criley
2001-07-24 13:10 ` nicolas
2001-07-24 20:30 ` Marc A. Criley
2001-07-25 7:56 ` nicolas
2001-07-26 13:20 ` Java portability Georg Bauhaus
2001-07-26 15:13 ` nicolas
2001-07-27 9:52 ` Georg Bauhaus
2001-07-27 10:22 ` nicolas
2001-07-27 14:17 ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-27 16:44 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-07-27 17:13 ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-27 20:09 ` Stefan Skoglund
2001-07-27 20:12 ` Straight Jackets Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-07-30 8:12 ` Java portability nicolas
2001-07-31 4:40 ` Proving Correctness (was Java Portability) Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-07-31 8:12 ` nicolas
2001-07-31 13:13 ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-31 14:40 ` nicolas
2001-08-02 9:52 ` Georg Bauhaus
2001-08-02 10:45 ` nicolas
2001-08-02 13:30 ` Marin David Condic [this message]
2001-08-02 14:30 ` nicolas
2001-08-02 15:49 ` Marin David Condic
2001-08-02 18:57 ` Georg Bauhaus
2001-08-02 20:27 ` Wes Groleau
2001-08-05 2:40 ` rob
2001-08-05 10:15 ` Pascal Obry
2001-08-02 8:44 ` Georg Bauhaus
2001-08-02 10:02 ` nicolas
2001-08-02 13:26 ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2001-08-02 14:18 ` nicolas
2001-08-02 21:46 ` Georg Bauhaus
2001-08-03 8:12 ` nicolas
2001-08-03 13:18 ` Georg Bauhaus
2001-08-03 13:59 ` nicolas
2001-08-03 13:51 ` Marin David Condic
2001-08-03 14:54 ` Georg Bauhaus
2001-08-03 15:16 ` nicolas
2001-08-03 17:10 ` Georg Bauhaus
2001-08-06 8:52 ` nicolas
2001-08-06 9:39 ` Mike
2001-08-06 11:37 ` nicolas
2001-08-06 13:24 ` Pascal Obry
2001-08-06 14:30 ` nicolas
2001-08-06 15:38 ` Pascal Obry
2001-08-06 16:45 ` Stephen Leake
2001-08-07 0:14 ` Pascal Obry
2001-08-07 7:18 ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
2001-08-07 17:43 ` Stephen Leake
2001-08-07 18:07 ` Marin David Condic
2001-08-08 10:15 ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
2001-08-07 8:06 ` nicolas
2001-08-07 10:33 ` Pascal Obry
2001-08-07 11:12 ` nicolas
2001-08-07 8:44 ` nicolas
2001-08-07 22:12 ` Larry Elmore
2001-08-07 22:54 ` Marin David Condic
2001-08-08 7:45 ` nicolas
2001-08-11 23:17 ` Larry Elmore
2001-08-13 13:29 ` Marin David Condic
2001-08-08 8:01 ` nicolas
2001-08-11 23:49 ` Larry Elmore
2001-08-13 13:51 ` Marin David Condic
2001-08-08 10:22 ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
2001-08-08 13:46 ` Marin David Condic
2001-08-08 14:25 ` Leif Roar Moldskred
2001-08-08 15:28 ` Marin David Condic
2001-08-08 18:03 ` tmoran
2001-08-09 12:29 ` Leif Roar Moldskred
2001-08-09 16:21 ` Marin David Condic
2001-08-09 7:12 ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
2001-08-11 23:57 ` Larry Elmore
2001-08-06 14:43 ` nicolas
2001-08-06 15:37 ` Pascal Obry
2001-08-06 15:45 ` Marin David Condic
2001-08-07 7:20 ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
2001-08-06 23:14 ` The pace of change (was Proving Correctness (was Java Portability)) Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-08-09 17:44 ` Proving Correctness (was Java Portability) Stefan Skoglund
2001-08-06 15:41 ` Marin David Condic
2001-08-06 13:14 ` Pascal Obry
2001-08-06 14:16 ` nicolas
2001-08-06 15:45 ` Pascal Obry
2001-08-06 16:14 ` nicolas
2001-08-06 16:41 ` Stephen Leake
2001-08-07 8:11 ` nicolas
2001-08-07 10:47 ` Pascal Obry
2001-08-07 11:31 ` nicolas
2001-08-07 11:50 ` nicolas
2001-08-07 14:08 ` Marin David Condic
2001-08-07 19:19 ` David Starner
2001-08-07 20:56 ` tmoran
2001-08-07 22:32 ` Ed Falis
2001-08-09 21:20 ` Pascal Obry
2001-08-07 22:31 ` Marin David Condic
2001-08-08 5:24 ` David Starner
2001-08-08 14:34 ` Marin David Condic
2001-08-08 18:03 ` tmoran
2001-08-09 4:31 ` David Starner
2001-08-09 20:56 ` David Starner
2001-08-09 21:00 ` David Starner
2001-08-08 12:17 ` Georg Bauhaus
2001-08-08 14:54 ` Marin David Condic
2001-08-08 19:20 ` Georg Bauhaus
2001-08-08 19:49 ` Marin David Condic
2001-08-09 12:31 ` Georg Bauhaus
2001-08-09 17:34 ` Marin David Condic
2001-08-10 4:29 ` Simon Wright
2001-08-13 14:09 ` Georg Bauhaus
2001-08-13 14:26 ` Marin David Condic
2001-08-14 11:58 ` Georg Bauhaus
2001-08-13 19:38 ` Simon Wright
2001-08-07 20:56 ` Florian Weimer
2001-08-07 22:43 ` Marin David Condic
2001-09-05 15:33 ` Ted Dennison
2001-08-06 16:37 ` Stephen Leake
2001-08-06 17:44 ` tmoran
2001-08-07 8:31 ` nicolas
2001-08-07 9:06 ` Leif Roar Moldskred
2001-08-07 9:20 ` nicolas
2001-08-07 10:01 ` Leif Roar Moldskred
2001-08-07 10:29 ` nicolas
2001-08-07 10:54 ` Leif Roar Moldskred
2001-08-07 11:28 ` nicolas
2001-08-07 23:02 ` Larry Elmore
2001-08-08 8:37 ` nicolas
2001-08-12 0:22 ` Larry Elmore
2001-08-07 21:52 ` Ada Components " Lao Xiao Hai
2001-08-08 17:09 ` Brian Rogoff
2001-08-08 10:50 ` More Uniform Ada libraries (was: Proving Correctness) Larry Kilgallen
[not found] ` <y%Ob7.737$ep5.11352@news1.okOrganization: LJK Software <0TDoe8bALz3g@eisner.encompasserve.org>
2001-08-08 12:03 ` nicolas
2001-08-08 12:11 ` Larry Kilgallen
[not found] ` <y%Ob7.737$ep5.11352@news1.okOrganization: LJK Software <uiGL0WHzXluf@eisner.encompasserve.org>
2001-08-08 13:03 ` nicolas
2001-08-08 15:05 ` Marin David Condic
2001-08-08 15:51 ` nicolas
2001-08-08 18:03 ` tmoran
2001-08-08 19:16 ` Marin David Condic
2001-08-08 21:36 ` Stephen Leake
2001-08-09 7:47 ` nicolas
2001-08-10 15:44 ` Stephen Leake
2001-09-04 4:32 ` brentcarnellis
2001-09-04 4:36 ` Ed Falis
2001-09-05 0:01 ` Jeff Creem
2001-09-05 4:13 ` brentcarnellis
2001-09-05 13:13 ` Samuel T. Harris
2001-09-06 5:08 ` brentcarnellis
2001-09-06 13:29 ` Samuel T. Harris
2001-09-07 3:56 ` brentcarnellis
2001-09-07 12:45 ` Samuel T. Harris
2001-08-07 12:09 ` Proving Correctness (was Java Portability) Larry Kilgallen
2001-08-06 16:12 ` Darren New
2001-08-07 12:12 ` Georg Bauhaus
2001-08-07 12:26 ` nicolas
2001-08-07 12:37 ` nicolas
[not found] ` <9kelv1$riq$ <3B72CC18.F07195D1@ebox.tninet.se>
2001-08-12 6:34 ` Simon Wright
2001-08-04 4:14 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-08-03 13:43 ` Marin David Condic
2001-08-03 14:15 ` nicolas
2001-08-04 22:31 ` AG
2001-08-06 8:19 ` nicolas
2001-08-06 15:56 ` Marin David Condic
2001-08-03 16:02 ` Georg Bauhaus
2001-08-03 15:25 ` Larry Kilgallen
[not found] ` <9Organization: LJK Software <pLczjM8J5xm3@eisner.encompasserve.org>
2001-08-03 15:27 ` Marin David Condic
2001-08-01 18:49 ` Java portability John Doe
2001-08-02 4:38 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-07-27 19:44 ` Stefan Skoglund
2001-07-27 20:43 ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-28 1:04 ` Java portability (was: An Ada IDE and discussions) Lao Xiao Hai
2001-07-28 21:45 ` Stefan Skoglund
2001-07-26 13:19 ` Java portability Georg Bauhaus
2001-07-26 15:07 ` nicolas
2001-07-27 9:36 ` Georg Bauhaus
2001-07-27 9:56 ` nicolas
2001-07-27 13:06 ` Georg Bauhaus
[not found] ` <9jrcmm$mc0$1@aOrganization: LJK Software <Yjoj5DGkwoqg@eisner.encompasserve.org>
2001-07-27 11:43 ` nicolas
2001-07-27 12:02 ` Larry Kilgallen
2001-08-02 2:43 ` Robert Dewar
2001-08-02 13:18 ` Marc A. Criley
2001-08-02 8:03 ` Larry Kilgallen
2001-07-30 20:00 ` Java portability (was: An Ada IDE and discussions) Dave Adlam
2001-07-24 2:54 ` An Ada IDE and discussions Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
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