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From: "Marin David Condic" <marin.condic.auntie.spam@pacemicro.com>
Subject: Re: Ada The Best Language?
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 15:10:09 -0400
Date: 2001-07-20T19:10:09+00:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <9j9vmh$c5p$1@nh.pace.co.uk> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 9j9s3t$kn8$1@wanadoo.fr

Oh, you'll pay - just not with CPU cycles. :-) Consider it this way: Its
better to have the checks there by default (and by virtue of the language -
not by virtue of someone being "nice" and checking manually) and removing
them from the small percentage of code that may be performance critical (via
pragma Supress) than to have them NOT there by default (and requiring that
the programmers "roll their own", rather than have them by virtue of the
language) and try to intersperse them in the code as you start discovering
you have mysterious errors.

I can't even begin to tell you how often my hide has been saved by having
compiletime & runtime checks in place in Ada that exposed eggregious errors
that would have been very hard to track down without them. When I wear the
embedded/realtime hat, I understand the desirability of getting rid of the
checks (in some cases) but I'm glad they are there for me to decide to get
rid of rather than have to insert them myself *after* I start discovering
problems.

Now if C++ had some sort of compile-time switch that could be thrown that
said "Insert Checks", and the language actually had syntax/semantics that
provided information to check (ranges on numbers, array constraints, etc.)
then I'd think that C++ and Ada were at least equivalent in this area.
However, since there aren't any activatable checks and the language doesn't
provide nearly as much safety information anyway, I find this a major
liability.

MDC
--
Marin David Condic
Senior Software Engineer
Pace Micro Technology Americas    www.pacemicro.com
Enabling the digital revolution
e-Mail:    marin.condic@pacemicro.com
Web:      http://www.mcondic.com/


"Bertrand Augereau" <baugereau@ifrance.kom> wrote in message
news:9j9s3t$kn8$1@wanadoo.fr...
> > The best features of C++ still leave numerous faults in the final
product:
> >
> >   - No overflow checks
> >   - In some cases, no divide by zero checks (this feature may need to be
> >     enabled on your platform).
>
> "You don't have to pay for what you don't use" is the principle.






  reply	other threads:[~2001-07-20 19:10 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 243+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2001-07-17 16:38 Ada The Best Language? codesavvy
2001-07-17 17:16 ` chris.danx
2001-07-17 21:35   ` JP
2001-07-18 12:04     ` Marc A. Criley
2001-07-18 13:13       ` Colin Paul Gloster
2001-07-18 15:03         ` OO Zealotry horror stories (was Re: Ada the Best Language) Marc A. Criley
2001-07-17 17:53 ` Ada The Best Language? Larry Kilgallen
2001-07-17 18:01 ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-18  2:10   ` codesavvy
2001-07-18 10:43     ` Larry Kilgallen
2001-07-18 14:27     ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-18 20:37       ` codesavvy
2001-07-18 21:11         ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-19 21:45           ` codesavvy
2001-07-18 22:02         ` Ed Falis
2001-07-19 21:50           ` codesavvy
2001-07-18 23:00         ` Larry Kilgallen
2001-07-19 21:55           ` codesavvy
2001-07-21  8:39             ` Martin Dowie
2001-07-22 14:18             ` John R. Strohm
2001-07-23  6:13               ` 
2001-07-23 11:16                 ` Lutz Donnerhacke
2001-07-23 12:27                 ` Marc A. Criley
2001-07-24  2:07                 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-07-20  4:12         ` Adrian Hoe
2001-07-18 17:26     ` Darren New
2001-07-18 18:03       ` Pascal Obry
2001-07-18 20:51       ` codesavvy
2001-07-18 21:03         ` David C. Hoos
2001-07-20  4:00           ` Adrian Hoe
2001-07-18 21:22         ` Darren New
2001-07-19  4:12         ` James Rogers
2001-07-19  8:59           ` Michal Nowak
2001-07-19 10:40           ` Larry Kilgallen
2001-07-19 12:20           ` codesavvy
2001-07-21 18:20         ` Lao Xiao Hai
2001-07-22  3:55           ` Robert C. Leif, Ph.D.
2001-07-18 21:08     ` Tucker Taft
2001-07-17 20:12 ` Jeffrey Carter
2001-07-17 21:15   ` Gerhard Häring
2001-07-17 21:38   ` Paul Storm
2001-07-18  2:03 ` Tomasz Wegrzanowski
2001-07-18  9:28   ` Gary Lisyansky
2001-07-18 10:42   ` Larry Kilgallen
2001-07-18  2:40 ` Beau
2001-07-18 10:35   ` codesavvy
2001-07-18 11:27     ` Jean-Pierre Rosen
2001-07-18 18:28       ` Brian Rogoff
2001-07-18 21:00         ` codesavvy
2001-07-19 17:31           ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-07-19 21:36             ` codesavvy
2001-07-24  3:22               ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-07-25  0:11                 ` David Bolen
2001-07-25  3:09                   ` Recent Ada Information (was: zhttp://www.aceshardware.com/Spades/r Larry Kilgallen
2001-07-25  3:32                     ` David Bolen
2001-07-25  4:53                     ` Larry Kilgallen
2001-07-25 10:50                   ` Ada The Best Language? codesavvy
2001-07-25 16:04                     ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-07-25 21:49                       ` codesavvy
2001-07-26 17:24                         ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-07-26 18:48                           ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-26 20:21                             ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-07-26 20:52                               ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-26 17:26                         ` Pascal Obry
2001-07-25 19:39                     ` tmoran
2001-07-27  0:35                       ` David Bolen
2001-07-27  1:50                         ` Gary Scott
2001-07-27 14:05                         ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-28  6:42                         ` tmoran
2001-07-28 12:53                           ` When correct software meets illegal data (was: Ada The Best...) Larry Kilgallen
2001-07-28 18:42                             ` tmoran
2001-07-28 20:52                               ` Al Christians
2001-07-28 21:42                                 ` tmoran
2001-07-30  1:53                                 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-07-28  5:32                       ` Ada The Best Language? JM
2001-07-28  6:49                         ` Gerhard Häring
2001-07-28 12:04                           ` Matthew Woodcraft
2001-07-28 19:46                           ` tmoran
2001-07-29  1:01                             ` Gerhard Häring
2001-07-31  2:59                           ` Tom Moran
2001-07-31  9:40                             ` Larry Kilgallen
2001-07-31 10:10                               ` Preben Randhol
2001-07-26 13:22                   ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-20 11:20             ` Bertrand Augereau
2001-07-20 12:56               ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-20 13:18               ` Dmitry Kazakov
2001-07-20 17:27               ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-07-20 18:14                 ` Bertrand Augereau
2001-07-20 19:10                   ` Marin David Condic [this message]
2001-07-20 20:12                     ` Bertrand Augereau
2001-07-20 20:48                       ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-23 11:09                       ` Lutz Donnerhacke
2001-07-20 19:38                   ` David C. Hoos
2001-07-22 13:13                     ` Bertrand Augereau
2001-07-22 20:35                       ` David C. Hoos, Sr.
2001-07-22 21:12                         ` Bertrand Augereau
2001-07-22 22:34                           ` David C. Hoos, Sr.
2001-07-23  7:41                           ` Dmitry Kazakov
2001-07-23  8:27                             ` Bertrand Augereau
2001-07-23 11:51                               ` Dmitry Kazakov
2001-07-23 12:06                                 ` Bertrand Augereau
2001-07-24  1:57                                   ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-07-26 22:31                                   ` Larry Elmore
2001-07-24 14:08                           ` Pat Rogers
2001-07-24 14:29                             ` Bertrand Augereau
2001-07-24 14:49                               ` Pat Rogers
2001-07-24  1:51                   ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-07-18 18:29       ` codesavvy
2001-07-18 21:48         ` Hambut
2001-07-18 22:00           ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-19 21:43           ` codesavvy
2001-07-19  7:45         ` Jean-Pierre Rosen
2001-07-18 11:55     ` Larry Kilgallen
2001-07-18 15:49     ` Alfred Hilscher
2001-07-18 20:48       ` codesavvy
2001-07-18 22:12         ` Pascal Obry
2001-07-18 23:22         ` chris.danx
2001-07-20 11:26           ` Bertrand Augereau
2001-07-20 12:11             ` chris.danx
2001-07-20 12:43               ` Bertrand Augereau
2001-07-20 17:37                 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-07-24 16:52                   ` Ted Dennison
2001-07-24 16:59                     ` Lutz Donnerhacke
2001-07-24 18:25                       ` Ted Dennison
2001-07-25 10:19                         ` Lutz Donnerhacke
2001-07-25 18:53                           ` Teergrubing (was: Ada The Best Language?) Ted Dennison
2001-07-24 20:14                     ` Ada The Best Language? Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-07-24 21:11                     ` Florian Weimer
2001-07-24 22:52                       ` tmoran
2001-07-25  7:08                         ` Florian Weimer
2001-07-25  7:45                           ` tmoran
2001-07-25 15:44                       ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-07-25 20:39                         ` Florian Weimer
2001-07-26 17:13                           ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-07-26 21:08                             ` Florian Weimer
2001-07-25  4:03                     ` Tomasz Wegrzanowski
2001-07-24 17:23                 ` Ted Dennison
2001-07-20 12:14             ` Lutz Donnerhacke
2001-07-20 12:32               ` Bertrand Augereau
2001-07-20 12:39                 ` Lutz Donnerhacke
2001-07-20 13:28                   ` Bertrand Augereau
2001-07-20 14:19                     ` Lutz Donnerhacke
2001-07-20 15:39                       ` Bertrand Augereau
2001-07-20 15:47                         ` Lutz Donnerhacke
2001-07-20 16:55                           ` Bertrand Augereau
2001-07-23 11:05                             ` Lutz Donnerhacke
2001-07-23 19:42             ` Lao Xiao Hai
2001-07-19 10:43         ` Alfred Hilscher
2001-07-19 12:47         ` Marc A. Criley
2001-07-19 17:01           ` codesavvy
2001-07-21 12:53             ` Marc A. Criley
2001-07-23 19:26         ` Lao Xiao Hai
2001-07-18 15:05 ` McDoobie
2001-07-18 20:42   ` codesavvy
2001-07-21 15:38   ` Device drivers in Ada (was Re: Ada The Best Language?) Mark Lundquist
2001-07-21 19:09     ` Larry Kilgallen
2001-07-21 15:31 ` Ada The Best Language? Mark Lundquist
2001-07-23  4:15   ` codesavvy
2001-07-23  7:26     ` Martin Dowie
2001-07-23 14:18   ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-24  2:13   ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2001-07-18  8:32 Vinzent Hoefler
2001-07-18 12:25 ` Marc A. Criley
2001-07-19  1:03   ` Mike Silva
2001-07-20 11:30   ` Bertrand Augereau
2001-07-20 12:58     ` Marc A. Criley
2001-07-20 13:48       ` Bertrand Augereau
2001-07-20 14:56         ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-20 16:41           ` Bertrand Augereau
2001-07-20 17:47           ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-07-20 19:33             ` David C. Hoos
2001-07-20 17:19         ` Marc A. Criley
2001-07-20 18:18           ` Bertrand Augereau
2001-08-06  8:13   ` stoog
2001-07-19 17:10 ` Tomasz Wegrzanowski
2001-07-20 13:31   ` Lutz Donnerhacke
2001-07-20 16:46     ` Tomasz Wegrzanowski
2001-07-20 17:00       ` David C. Hoos
2001-08-04  6:04         ` David Thompson
2001-08-05  2:22           ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-07-23 10:12       ` Lutz Donnerhacke
2001-07-18  8:43 Vinzent Hoefler
2001-07-18  9:22 ` Gerhard Häring
2001-07-18  8:58   ` Lutz Donnerhacke
2001-07-18 14:06 ` codesavvy
2001-07-18 15:27   ` Marc A. Criley
2001-07-18 20:31     ` codesavvy
2001-07-18 21:29       ` Darren New
2001-07-18 21:56         ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-19  3:37           ` Larry Hazel
2001-07-19 18:19             ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-21 15:33             ` Mark Lundquist
2001-07-23 13:50               ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-24  4:52                 ` Robert C. Leif, Ph.D.
2001-07-24  6:47                   ` tmoran
2001-07-24 11:47                   ` Larry Kilgallen
2001-07-24 14:10                   ` Ted Dennison
2001-07-27 11:29                     ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2001-07-19 21:47         ` codesavvy
2001-07-21  2:51           ` DuckE
2001-07-21  3:46           ` Darren New
2001-07-26  1:39           ` Lao Xiao Hai
2001-07-19 13:12       ` Marc A. Criley
2001-07-19 17:11         ` codesavvy
2001-07-21 14:10           ` Marc A. Criley
2001-07-19 14:12       ` Leif Roar Moldskred
2001-07-19 16:58         ` codesavvy
2001-07-19 18:29         ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-19 17:11 ` Tomasz Wegrzanowski
2001-07-19 18:33   ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-19 20:49     ` Tomasz Wegrzanowski
2001-07-19 21:01       ` Darren New
2001-07-19 21:20       ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-19 22:31         ` Tomasz Wegrzanowski
2001-07-19 23:04           ` Darren New
2001-07-19 23:36             ` Tomasz Wegrzanowski
2001-07-20 16:14             ` Ted Dennison
2001-07-20 17:51               ` Darren New
2001-07-20 17:54               ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-20 20:16                 ` Ted Dennison
2001-07-25  9:01           ` Colin Paul Gloster
2001-07-19 22:31       ` Larry Kilgallen
2001-07-18 14:40 Re[2]: " ANH_VO
2001-07-26  1:53 ` Lao Xiao Hai
2001-07-19  0:15 Beard, Frank
2001-07-19 12:24 ` codesavvy
2001-07-19  5:42 Vinzent Hoefler
2001-07-19  6:32 Vinzent Hoefler
2001-07-19  6:35 Vinzent Hoefler
2001-07-19 11:34 Vinzent Hoefler
2001-07-19 15:24 ` Alfred Hilscher
2001-07-19 15:38   ` nicolas
2001-07-19 17:28 ` Ted Dennison
2001-07-24 13:53   ` Colin Paul Gloster
2001-07-19 16:10 Vinzent Hoefler
2001-07-20  6:05 Vinzent Hoefler
2001-07-20  6:08 Vinzent Hoefler
2001-07-20 17:31 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-07-21 16:27   ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2001-07-24  2:02     ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-07-20  6:23 Vinzent Hoefler
2001-07-20  6:56 Vinzent Hoefler
2001-07-27 20:22 Beard, Frank
2001-07-27 21:28 ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-30  2:23 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-07-27 22:46 Beard, Frank
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