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From: "Marin David Condic" <marin.condic.auntie.spam@pacemicro.com>
Subject: Re: Ada The Best Language?
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 14:29:29 -0400
Date: 2001-07-19T18:29:28+00:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <9j78u8$atl$1@nh.pace.co.uk> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 5VB57.119$%1.8915@news3.oke.nextra.no

There are no accepted standard measures of productivity in the software
business. If we were talking concrete sidewalks, we could stipulate
dimensions and industry accepted construction materials and measures of
quality, then start laying sidewalk and measuring time. (Or dollars. Same
thing) The problem is that software almost *never* attacks an identical
problem twice and even among similar projects, you almost *never* do it with
an identical set of tools. Hence you can't control all the variables going
in, so you can't attribute any perceived changes as being due to the
language (or some other single variable of study.)

Its a really intractable problem. If we at least had some quantifiable
measure of units of work and some quantifiable measure of quality, we might
stand a chance of counting hours or dollars in. But I defy anybody to
stipulate some units of work and some units of quality that isn't going to
start a firestorm here with arguments all over the place about why the
metrics picked miss some critical factors that change the whole game. I
know - I've been there and done that. :-)

MDC
--
Marin David Condic
Senior Software Engineer
Pace Micro Technology Americas    www.pacemicro.com
Enabling the digital revolution
e-Mail:    marin.condic@pacemicro.com
Web:      http://www.mcondic.com/


"Leif Roar Moldskred" <rmoldskr@online.no> wrote in message
news:5VB57.119$%1.8915@news3.oke.nextra.no...
> codesavvy <codesavvy@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > Questions regarding productiviy are bogus?
>
> Umm, yes they are actually - unless you clearly define what metric
> "productivity" is to be measured by. Lines of code per hour? Average
> time to release? Total life-cycle cost? Man-hours needed to reach a
> certain level of quality? What level? Cost per line of code? What kind
> of projects should be measured? What weighting should be given to the
> various kinds of projects?
>
> If project A finishes in 2/3 of the time it takes project B to finish
> (with identical scores of the results), but the code of A is so shoddy
> that any major changes to it means a complete rewrite, whereas with
> code B you can just add a couple of modules and write some interface
> code - which project was the "most productive"?
>
> Questions about productivity that are as general as yours were, _are_
> bogus. (And don't get me started about "synergy").
>
>
> Leif Roar Moldskred
> professional lurker





  parent reply	other threads:[~2001-07-19 18:29 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 232+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2001-07-18  8:43 Ada The Best Language? Vinzent Hoefler
2001-07-18  9:22 ` Gerhard Häring
2001-07-18  8:58   ` Lutz Donnerhacke
2001-07-18 14:06 ` codesavvy
2001-07-18 15:27   ` Marc A. Criley
2001-07-18 20:31     ` codesavvy
2001-07-18 21:29       ` Darren New
2001-07-18 21:56         ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-19  3:37           ` Larry Hazel
2001-07-19 18:19             ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-21 15:33             ` Mark Lundquist
2001-07-23 13:50               ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-24  4:52                 ` Robert C. Leif, Ph.D.
2001-07-24  6:47                   ` tmoran
2001-07-24 11:47                   ` Larry Kilgallen
2001-07-24 14:10                   ` Ted Dennison
2001-07-27 11:29                     ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2001-07-19 21:47         ` codesavvy
2001-07-21  2:51           ` DuckE
2001-07-21  3:46           ` Darren New
2001-07-26  1:39           ` Lao Xiao Hai
2001-07-19 13:12       ` Marc A. Criley
2001-07-19 17:11         ` codesavvy
2001-07-21 14:10           ` Marc A. Criley
2001-07-19 14:12       ` Leif Roar Moldskred
2001-07-19 16:58         ` codesavvy
2001-07-19 18:29         ` Marin David Condic [this message]
2001-07-19 17:11 ` Tomasz Wegrzanowski
2001-07-19 18:33   ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-19 20:49     ` Tomasz Wegrzanowski
2001-07-19 21:01       ` Darren New
2001-07-19 21:20       ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-19 22:31         ` Tomasz Wegrzanowski
2001-07-19 23:04           ` Darren New
2001-07-19 23:36             ` Tomasz Wegrzanowski
2001-07-20 16:14             ` Ted Dennison
2001-07-20 17:51               ` Darren New
2001-07-20 17:54               ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-20 20:16                 ` Ted Dennison
2001-07-25  9:01           ` Colin Paul Gloster
2001-07-19 22:31       ` Larry Kilgallen
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2001-07-27 22:46 Beard, Frank
2001-07-27 20:22 Beard, Frank
2001-07-27 21:28 ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-30  2:23 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-07-20  6:56 Vinzent Hoefler
2001-07-20  6:23 Vinzent Hoefler
2001-07-20  6:08 Vinzent Hoefler
2001-07-20 17:31 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-07-21 16:27   ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2001-07-24  2:02     ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-07-20  6:05 Vinzent Hoefler
2001-07-19 16:10 Vinzent Hoefler
2001-07-19 11:34 Vinzent Hoefler
2001-07-19 15:24 ` Alfred Hilscher
2001-07-19 15:38   ` nicolas
2001-07-19 17:28 ` Ted Dennison
2001-07-24 13:53   ` Colin Paul Gloster
2001-07-19  6:35 Vinzent Hoefler
2001-07-19  6:32 Vinzent Hoefler
2001-07-19  5:42 Vinzent Hoefler
2001-07-19  0:15 Beard, Frank
2001-07-19 12:24 ` codesavvy
2001-07-18 14:40 Re[2]: " ANH_VO
2001-07-26  1:53 ` Lao Xiao Hai
2001-07-18  8:32 Vinzent Hoefler
2001-07-18 12:25 ` Marc A. Criley
2001-07-19  1:03   ` Mike Silva
2001-07-20 11:30   ` Bertrand Augereau
2001-07-20 12:58     ` Marc A. Criley
2001-07-20 13:48       ` Bertrand Augereau
2001-07-20 14:56         ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-20 16:41           ` Bertrand Augereau
2001-07-20 17:47           ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-07-20 19:33             ` David C. Hoos
2001-07-20 17:19         ` Marc A. Criley
2001-07-20 18:18           ` Bertrand Augereau
2001-08-06  8:13   ` stoog
2001-07-19 17:10 ` Tomasz Wegrzanowski
2001-07-20 13:31   ` Lutz Donnerhacke
2001-07-20 16:46     ` Tomasz Wegrzanowski
2001-07-20 17:00       ` David C. Hoos
2001-08-04  6:04         ` David Thompson
2001-08-05  2:22           ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-07-23 10:12       ` Lutz Donnerhacke
2001-07-17 16:38 codesavvy
2001-07-17 17:16 ` chris.danx
2001-07-17 21:35   ` JP
2001-07-18 12:04     ` Marc A. Criley
2001-07-18 13:13       ` Colin Paul Gloster
2001-07-17 17:53 ` Larry Kilgallen
2001-07-17 18:01 ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-18  2:10   ` codesavvy
2001-07-18 10:43     ` Larry Kilgallen
2001-07-18 14:27     ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-18 20:37       ` codesavvy
2001-07-18 21:11         ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-19 21:45           ` codesavvy
2001-07-18 22:02         ` Ed Falis
2001-07-19 21:50           ` codesavvy
2001-07-18 23:00         ` Larry Kilgallen
2001-07-19 21:55           ` codesavvy
2001-07-21  8:39             ` Martin Dowie
2001-07-22 14:18             ` John R. Strohm
2001-07-23  6:13               ` 
2001-07-23 11:16                 ` Lutz Donnerhacke
2001-07-23 12:27                 ` Marc A. Criley
2001-07-24  2:07                 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-07-20  4:12         ` Adrian Hoe
2001-07-18 17:26     ` Darren New
2001-07-18 18:03       ` Pascal Obry
2001-07-18 20:51       ` codesavvy
2001-07-18 21:03         ` David C. Hoos
2001-07-20  4:00           ` Adrian Hoe
2001-07-18 21:22         ` Darren New
2001-07-19  4:12         ` James Rogers
2001-07-19  8:59           ` Michal Nowak
2001-07-19 10:40           ` Larry Kilgallen
2001-07-19 12:20           ` codesavvy
2001-07-21 18:20         ` Lao Xiao Hai
2001-07-22  3:55           ` Robert C. Leif, Ph.D.
2001-07-18 21:08     ` Tucker Taft
2001-07-17 20:12 ` Jeffrey Carter
2001-07-17 21:15   ` Gerhard Häring
2001-07-17 21:38   ` Paul Storm
2001-07-18  2:03 ` Tomasz Wegrzanowski
2001-07-18  9:28   ` Gary Lisyansky
2001-07-18 10:42   ` Larry Kilgallen
2001-07-18  2:40 ` Beau
2001-07-18 10:35   ` codesavvy
2001-07-18 11:27     ` Jean-Pierre Rosen
2001-07-18 18:28       ` Brian Rogoff
2001-07-18 21:00         ` codesavvy
2001-07-19 17:31           ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-07-19 21:36             ` codesavvy
2001-07-24  3:22               ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-07-25  0:11                 ` David Bolen
2001-07-25 10:50                   ` codesavvy
2001-07-25 16:04                     ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-07-25 21:49                       ` codesavvy
2001-07-26 17:24                         ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-07-26 18:48                           ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-26 20:21                             ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-07-26 20:52                               ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-26 17:26                         ` Pascal Obry
2001-07-25 19:39                     ` tmoran
2001-07-27  0:35                       ` David Bolen
2001-07-27  1:50                         ` Gary Scott
2001-07-27 14:05                         ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-28  6:42                         ` tmoran
2001-07-28  5:32                       ` JM
2001-07-28  6:49                         ` Gerhard Häring
2001-07-28 12:04                           ` Matthew Woodcraft
2001-07-28 19:46                           ` tmoran
2001-07-29  1:01                             ` Gerhard Häring
2001-07-31  2:59                           ` Tom Moran
2001-07-31  9:40                             ` Larry Kilgallen
2001-07-31 10:10                               ` Preben Randhol
2001-07-26 13:22                   ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-20 11:20             ` Bertrand Augereau
2001-07-20 12:56               ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-20 13:18               ` Dmitry Kazakov
2001-07-20 17:27               ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-07-20 18:14                 ` Bertrand Augereau
2001-07-20 19:10                   ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-20 20:12                     ` Bertrand Augereau
2001-07-20 20:48                       ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-23 11:09                       ` Lutz Donnerhacke
2001-07-20 19:38                   ` David C. Hoos
2001-07-22 13:13                     ` Bertrand Augereau
2001-07-22 20:35                       ` David C. Hoos, Sr.
2001-07-22 21:12                         ` Bertrand Augereau
2001-07-22 22:34                           ` David C. Hoos, Sr.
2001-07-23  7:41                           ` Dmitry Kazakov
2001-07-23  8:27                             ` Bertrand Augereau
2001-07-23 11:51                               ` Dmitry Kazakov
2001-07-23 12:06                                 ` Bertrand Augereau
2001-07-24  1:57                                   ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-07-26 22:31                                   ` Larry Elmore
2001-07-24 14:08                           ` Pat Rogers
2001-07-24 14:29                             ` Bertrand Augereau
2001-07-24 14:49                               ` Pat Rogers
2001-07-24  1:51                   ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-07-18 18:29       ` codesavvy
2001-07-18 21:48         ` Hambut
2001-07-18 22:00           ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-19 21:43           ` codesavvy
2001-07-19  7:45         ` Jean-Pierre Rosen
2001-07-18 11:55     ` Larry Kilgallen
2001-07-18 15:49     ` Alfred Hilscher
2001-07-18 20:48       ` codesavvy
2001-07-18 22:12         ` Pascal Obry
2001-07-18 23:22         ` chris.danx
2001-07-20 11:26           ` Bertrand Augereau
2001-07-20 12:11             ` chris.danx
2001-07-20 12:43               ` Bertrand Augereau
2001-07-20 17:37                 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-07-24 16:52                   ` Ted Dennison
2001-07-24 16:59                     ` Lutz Donnerhacke
2001-07-24 18:25                       ` Ted Dennison
2001-07-25 10:19                         ` Lutz Donnerhacke
2001-07-24 20:14                     ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-07-24 21:11                     ` Florian Weimer
2001-07-24 22:52                       ` tmoran
2001-07-25  7:08                         ` Florian Weimer
2001-07-25  7:45                           ` tmoran
2001-07-25 15:44                       ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-07-25 20:39                         ` Florian Weimer
2001-07-26 17:13                           ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-07-26 21:08                             ` Florian Weimer
2001-07-25  4:03                     ` Tomasz Wegrzanowski
2001-07-24 17:23                 ` Ted Dennison
2001-07-20 12:14             ` Lutz Donnerhacke
2001-07-20 12:32               ` Bertrand Augereau
2001-07-20 12:39                 ` Lutz Donnerhacke
2001-07-20 13:28                   ` Bertrand Augereau
2001-07-20 14:19                     ` Lutz Donnerhacke
2001-07-20 15:39                       ` Bertrand Augereau
2001-07-20 15:47                         ` Lutz Donnerhacke
2001-07-20 16:55                           ` Bertrand Augereau
2001-07-23 11:05                             ` Lutz Donnerhacke
2001-07-23 19:42             ` Lao Xiao Hai
2001-07-19 10:43         ` Alfred Hilscher
2001-07-19 12:47         ` Marc A. Criley
2001-07-19 17:01           ` codesavvy
2001-07-21 12:53             ` Marc A. Criley
2001-07-23 19:26         ` Lao Xiao Hai
2001-07-18 15:05 ` McDoobie
2001-07-18 20:42   ` codesavvy
2001-07-21 15:31 ` Mark Lundquist
2001-07-23  4:15   ` codesavvy
2001-07-23  7:26     ` Martin Dowie
2001-07-23 14:18   ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-24  2:13   ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
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