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From: "Jean-Pierre Rosen" <rosen@adalog.fr>
Subject: Re: Ada The Best Language?
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 09:45:31 +0200
Date: 2001-07-19T09:45:31+02:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <9j640i$6f0$1@s1.read.news.oleane.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 5be89e2f.0107181029.1e09f6c0@posting.google.com

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"codesavvy" <codesavvy@aol.com> a �crit dans le message news: 5be89e2f.0107181029.1e09f6c0@posting.google.com...
> Didn't say this at all.  Here's what I wrote:
>
> For a programming language to be considered vastly superior (many Ada
> advocates do consider Ada to be vastly superior) I believe that
> developers utilizing the language should show a substantial increase
> in productivity or it should solve a class(es) of programming problems
> that another language can't.
>  [...]
OK, I got you point. You are really interested in productivity, all other things being equal. We could argue on this, but I won't;
if it's your view of a better language, fine.

There have been a number of studies addressing productivity and error rates in Ada compared to other programming languages. One of
the first ones was the Reifer study, that showed a minimum increase of 50% of productivity using Ada. It is a bit outdated now, and
I have it only on paper; I'm sorry I cannot provide any URL.

Another interesting one is the Rational study comparing development costs of Ada and C (not C++, agreed). I don't have the exact URL
at hand, but this one should be easily found.

There are lots of personnal experience too. Here is one from one of my clients (I guess he's reading this newsgroup, so I let to him
to disclose more if he wishes). One team was developping a project in Ada, and another one in C++. Both projects were very similar,
but the Ada team was 3 people, and the C++ team was 15. The Ada team achieved its goals, but the C++ team never did. Some times ago,
there was a proposal to add new functionnalities to the (Ada) software. Since the management was afraid of the possible costs, they
asked for an external expert to evaluate the time and cost of the modification. Given the context, the team kept a very precise
track of all effort involved. Result: the modification was performed with exactly 1/3 of the cost estimated by the expert according
to "normal practice".

This is just one example. But I think you'll find many others from the people here. And although examples don't *prove* anything, a
number of converging examples should be a serious hint that there is really something significant behind.

--
---------------------------------------------------------
           J-P. Rosen (rosen@adalog.fr)
Visit Adalog's web site at http://www.adalog.fr





  parent reply	other threads:[~2001-07-19  7:45 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 243+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2001-07-17 16:38 Ada The Best Language? codesavvy
2001-07-17 17:16 ` chris.danx
2001-07-17 21:35   ` JP
2001-07-18 12:04     ` Marc A. Criley
2001-07-18 13:13       ` Colin Paul Gloster
2001-07-18 15:03         ` OO Zealotry horror stories (was Re: Ada the Best Language) Marc A. Criley
2001-07-17 17:53 ` Ada The Best Language? Larry Kilgallen
2001-07-17 18:01 ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-18  2:10   ` codesavvy
2001-07-18 10:43     ` Larry Kilgallen
2001-07-18 14:27     ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-18 20:37       ` codesavvy
2001-07-18 21:11         ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-19 21:45           ` codesavvy
2001-07-18 22:02         ` Ed Falis
2001-07-19 21:50           ` codesavvy
2001-07-18 23:00         ` Larry Kilgallen
2001-07-19 21:55           ` codesavvy
2001-07-21  8:39             ` Martin Dowie
2001-07-22 14:18             ` John R. Strohm
2001-07-23  6:13               ` 
2001-07-23 11:16                 ` Lutz Donnerhacke
2001-07-23 12:27                 ` Marc A. Criley
2001-07-24  2:07                 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-07-20  4:12         ` Adrian Hoe
2001-07-18 17:26     ` Darren New
2001-07-18 18:03       ` Pascal Obry
2001-07-18 20:51       ` codesavvy
2001-07-18 21:03         ` David C. Hoos
2001-07-20  4:00           ` Adrian Hoe
2001-07-18 21:22         ` Darren New
2001-07-19  4:12         ` James Rogers
2001-07-19  8:59           ` Michal Nowak
2001-07-19 10:40           ` Larry Kilgallen
2001-07-19 12:20           ` codesavvy
2001-07-21 18:20         ` Lao Xiao Hai
2001-07-22  3:55           ` Robert C. Leif, Ph.D.
2001-07-18 21:08     ` Tucker Taft
2001-07-17 20:12 ` Jeffrey Carter
2001-07-17 21:15   ` Gerhard Häring
2001-07-17 21:38   ` Paul Storm
2001-07-18  2:03 ` Tomasz Wegrzanowski
2001-07-18  9:28   ` Gary Lisyansky
2001-07-18 10:42   ` Larry Kilgallen
2001-07-18  2:40 ` Beau
2001-07-18 10:35   ` codesavvy
2001-07-18 11:27     ` Jean-Pierre Rosen
2001-07-18 18:28       ` Brian Rogoff
2001-07-18 21:00         ` codesavvy
2001-07-19 17:31           ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-07-19 21:36             ` codesavvy
2001-07-24  3:22               ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-07-25  0:11                 ` David Bolen
2001-07-25  3:09                   ` Recent Ada Information (was: zhttp://www.aceshardware.com/Spades/r Larry Kilgallen
2001-07-25  3:32                     ` David Bolen
2001-07-25  4:53                     ` Larry Kilgallen
2001-07-25 10:50                   ` Ada The Best Language? codesavvy
2001-07-25 16:04                     ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-07-25 21:49                       ` codesavvy
2001-07-26 17:24                         ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-07-26 18:48                           ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-26 20:21                             ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-07-26 20:52                               ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-26 17:26                         ` Pascal Obry
2001-07-25 19:39                     ` tmoran
2001-07-27  0:35                       ` David Bolen
2001-07-27  1:50                         ` Gary Scott
2001-07-27 14:05                         ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-28  6:42                         ` tmoran
2001-07-28 12:53                           ` When correct software meets illegal data (was: Ada The Best...) Larry Kilgallen
2001-07-28 18:42                             ` tmoran
2001-07-28 20:52                               ` Al Christians
2001-07-28 21:42                                 ` tmoran
2001-07-30  1:53                                 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-07-28  5:32                       ` Ada The Best Language? JM
2001-07-28  6:49                         ` Gerhard Häring
2001-07-28 12:04                           ` Matthew Woodcraft
2001-07-28 19:46                           ` tmoran
2001-07-29  1:01                             ` Gerhard Häring
2001-07-31  2:59                           ` Tom Moran
2001-07-31  9:40                             ` Larry Kilgallen
2001-07-31 10:10                               ` Preben Randhol
2001-07-26 13:22                   ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-20 11:20             ` Bertrand Augereau
2001-07-20 12:56               ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-20 13:18               ` Dmitry Kazakov
2001-07-20 17:27               ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-07-20 18:14                 ` Bertrand Augereau
2001-07-20 19:10                   ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-20 20:12                     ` Bertrand Augereau
2001-07-20 20:48                       ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-23 11:09                       ` Lutz Donnerhacke
2001-07-20 19:38                   ` David C. Hoos
2001-07-22 13:13                     ` Bertrand Augereau
2001-07-22 20:35                       ` David C. Hoos, Sr.
2001-07-22 21:12                         ` Bertrand Augereau
2001-07-22 22:34                           ` David C. Hoos, Sr.
2001-07-23  7:41                           ` Dmitry Kazakov
2001-07-23  8:27                             ` Bertrand Augereau
2001-07-23 11:51                               ` Dmitry Kazakov
2001-07-23 12:06                                 ` Bertrand Augereau
2001-07-24  1:57                                   ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-07-26 22:31                                   ` Larry Elmore
2001-07-24 14:08                           ` Pat Rogers
2001-07-24 14:29                             ` Bertrand Augereau
2001-07-24 14:49                               ` Pat Rogers
2001-07-24  1:51                   ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-07-18 18:29       ` codesavvy
2001-07-18 21:48         ` Hambut
2001-07-18 22:00           ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-19 21:43           ` codesavvy
2001-07-19  7:45         ` Jean-Pierre Rosen [this message]
2001-07-18 11:55     ` Larry Kilgallen
2001-07-18 15:49     ` Alfred Hilscher
2001-07-18 20:48       ` codesavvy
2001-07-18 22:12         ` Pascal Obry
2001-07-18 23:22         ` chris.danx
2001-07-20 11:26           ` Bertrand Augereau
2001-07-20 12:11             ` chris.danx
2001-07-20 12:43               ` Bertrand Augereau
2001-07-20 17:37                 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-07-24 16:52                   ` Ted Dennison
2001-07-24 16:59                     ` Lutz Donnerhacke
2001-07-24 18:25                       ` Ted Dennison
2001-07-25 10:19                         ` Lutz Donnerhacke
2001-07-25 18:53                           ` Teergrubing (was: Ada The Best Language?) Ted Dennison
2001-07-24 20:14                     ` Ada The Best Language? Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-07-24 21:11                     ` Florian Weimer
2001-07-24 22:52                       ` tmoran
2001-07-25  7:08                         ` Florian Weimer
2001-07-25  7:45                           ` tmoran
2001-07-25 15:44                       ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-07-25 20:39                         ` Florian Weimer
2001-07-26 17:13                           ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-07-26 21:08                             ` Florian Weimer
2001-07-25  4:03                     ` Tomasz Wegrzanowski
2001-07-24 17:23                 ` Ted Dennison
2001-07-20 12:14             ` Lutz Donnerhacke
2001-07-20 12:32               ` Bertrand Augereau
2001-07-20 12:39                 ` Lutz Donnerhacke
2001-07-20 13:28                   ` Bertrand Augereau
2001-07-20 14:19                     ` Lutz Donnerhacke
2001-07-20 15:39                       ` Bertrand Augereau
2001-07-20 15:47                         ` Lutz Donnerhacke
2001-07-20 16:55                           ` Bertrand Augereau
2001-07-23 11:05                             ` Lutz Donnerhacke
2001-07-23 19:42             ` Lao Xiao Hai
2001-07-19 10:43         ` Alfred Hilscher
2001-07-19 12:47         ` Marc A. Criley
2001-07-19 17:01           ` codesavvy
2001-07-21 12:53             ` Marc A. Criley
2001-07-23 19:26         ` Lao Xiao Hai
2001-07-18 15:05 ` McDoobie
2001-07-18 20:42   ` codesavvy
2001-07-21 15:38   ` Device drivers in Ada (was Re: Ada The Best Language?) Mark Lundquist
2001-07-21 19:09     ` Larry Kilgallen
2001-07-21 15:31 ` Ada The Best Language? Mark Lundquist
2001-07-23  4:15   ` codesavvy
2001-07-23  7:26     ` Martin Dowie
2001-07-23 14:18   ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-24  2:13   ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2001-07-18  8:32 Vinzent Hoefler
2001-07-18 12:25 ` Marc A. Criley
2001-07-19  1:03   ` Mike Silva
2001-07-20 11:30   ` Bertrand Augereau
2001-07-20 12:58     ` Marc A. Criley
2001-07-20 13:48       ` Bertrand Augereau
2001-07-20 14:56         ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-20 16:41           ` Bertrand Augereau
2001-07-20 17:47           ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-07-20 19:33             ` David C. Hoos
2001-07-20 17:19         ` Marc A. Criley
2001-07-20 18:18           ` Bertrand Augereau
2001-08-06  8:13   ` stoog
2001-07-19 17:10 ` Tomasz Wegrzanowski
2001-07-20 13:31   ` Lutz Donnerhacke
2001-07-20 16:46     ` Tomasz Wegrzanowski
2001-07-20 17:00       ` David C. Hoos
2001-08-04  6:04         ` David Thompson
2001-08-05  2:22           ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-07-23 10:12       ` Lutz Donnerhacke
2001-07-18  8:43 Vinzent Hoefler
2001-07-18  9:22 ` Gerhard Häring
2001-07-18  8:58   ` Lutz Donnerhacke
2001-07-18 14:06 ` codesavvy
2001-07-18 15:27   ` Marc A. Criley
2001-07-18 20:31     ` codesavvy
2001-07-18 21:29       ` Darren New
2001-07-18 21:56         ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-19  3:37           ` Larry Hazel
2001-07-19 18:19             ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-21 15:33             ` Mark Lundquist
2001-07-23 13:50               ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-24  4:52                 ` Robert C. Leif, Ph.D.
2001-07-24  6:47                   ` tmoran
2001-07-24 11:47                   ` Larry Kilgallen
2001-07-24 14:10                   ` Ted Dennison
2001-07-27 11:29                     ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2001-07-19 21:47         ` codesavvy
2001-07-21  2:51           ` DuckE
2001-07-21  3:46           ` Darren New
2001-07-26  1:39           ` Lao Xiao Hai
2001-07-19 13:12       ` Marc A. Criley
2001-07-19 17:11         ` codesavvy
2001-07-21 14:10           ` Marc A. Criley
2001-07-19 14:12       ` Leif Roar Moldskred
2001-07-19 16:58         ` codesavvy
2001-07-19 18:29         ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-19 17:11 ` Tomasz Wegrzanowski
2001-07-19 18:33   ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-19 20:49     ` Tomasz Wegrzanowski
2001-07-19 21:01       ` Darren New
2001-07-19 21:20       ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-19 22:31         ` Tomasz Wegrzanowski
2001-07-19 23:04           ` Darren New
2001-07-19 23:36             ` Tomasz Wegrzanowski
2001-07-20 16:14             ` Ted Dennison
2001-07-20 17:51               ` Darren New
2001-07-20 17:54               ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-20 20:16                 ` Ted Dennison
2001-07-25  9:01           ` Colin Paul Gloster
2001-07-19 22:31       ` Larry Kilgallen
2001-07-18 14:40 Re[2]: " ANH_VO
2001-07-26  1:53 ` Lao Xiao Hai
2001-07-19  0:15 Beard, Frank
2001-07-19 12:24 ` codesavvy
2001-07-19  5:42 Vinzent Hoefler
2001-07-19  6:32 Vinzent Hoefler
2001-07-19  6:35 Vinzent Hoefler
2001-07-19 11:34 Vinzent Hoefler
2001-07-19 15:24 ` Alfred Hilscher
2001-07-19 15:38   ` nicolas
2001-07-19 17:28 ` Ted Dennison
2001-07-24 13:53   ` Colin Paul Gloster
2001-07-19 16:10 Vinzent Hoefler
2001-07-20  6:05 Vinzent Hoefler
2001-07-20  6:08 Vinzent Hoefler
2001-07-20 17:31 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-07-21 16:27   ` Jacob Sparre Andersen
2001-07-24  2:02     ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-07-20  6:23 Vinzent Hoefler
2001-07-20  6:56 Vinzent Hoefler
2001-07-27 20:22 Beard, Frank
2001-07-27 21:28 ` Marin David Condic
2001-07-30  2:23 ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-07-27 22:46 Beard, Frank
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