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From: "Jeffrey Creem" <jeff@thecreems.com>
Subject: Re: Why is Ada NOT a good choice for a beginner to programming?
Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 02:44:21 GMT
Date: 2003-01-08T02:44:21+00:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <9gMS9.483613$GR5.189928@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 8ivo1vo5ir3piqsck4ondj0cuo47g426kf@4ax.com

I hate to feed the trolls (ok maybe not)...But even if Ada were to vanish
off the face of the Earth, many of the concepts that I have heard others
complain about over the years have been adopted by the current "popular"
languages...

I am not sure about Dijkstra's complaints (here are some
http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/ewd06xx/EWD663.PDF
but they do not seem to be real attacks on the language but more the
style of the spec. They also seem pretty valid)

Common ones I have heard over the years from others were

1) "Too complicated" (hmm, and C++ is easy)
2) "Exceptions, yuck, I want to return a status." (hmm, C++, C# and Java
seem to like them)
3) "Too slow." (hmm, and we all know what a speed freak Java is...)


There are others, some may even be true.
This is now two posts in two days for me. One replying to the classic VHS
v.s. BETA where Ada played the roll of Beta (better but still lost) and now
this one (worse and should have lost)....

It seems to me the #1 reason that Ada does not grow is much more simple.
People choose languages and
polititians the same way they pick teams in a Superbowl gambling pool. They
are more worried about picking the winner so they can be "right" then they
are about applying critical thinking and making an intellegent selection.




"faust" <urfaust@optushome.com.au> wrote in message
news:8ivo1vo5ir3piqsck4ondj0cuo47g426kf@4ax.com...
> Wes Groleau <wesgroleau@despammed.com> ,  emitted these fragments:
>
> >Dijkstra was also the guy who condemned various features of
> >Ada--features that have since been shown to be very valuable.
>
> Shown by whom ?
>
> The rapidly growing Ada community ?





  reply	other threads:[~2003-01-08  2:44 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 119+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2002-12-21  3:30 Why is Ada NOT a good choice for a beginner to programming? David Wright
2002-12-21  5:44 ` sk
2002-12-23 14:29   ` Wes Groleau
2002-12-23 17:36     ` sk
2002-12-23 18:24       ` David Wright
2002-12-23 19:16         ` sk
2002-12-23 19:48           ` David Wright
2002-12-23 21:33             ` Wes Groleau
2002-12-23 21:17           ` Robert A Duff
2002-12-24 19:22             ` faust
2002-12-24  0:46               ` Robert A Duff
2002-12-24  9:41                 ` Pascal Obry
2002-12-25  4:43                 ` faust
2002-12-27 17:54                   ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-01-02 13:50                     ` Wes Groleau
2002-12-25  7:24                 ` AG
2003-01-02  9:56                   ` John McCabe
2003-01-02 13:47                 ` Wes Groleau
2003-01-08 19:39                   ` faust
2003-01-08  2:44                     ` Jeffrey Creem [this message]
2003-01-08 18:54                       ` Wes Groleau
2003-01-08 19:48                         ` chris.danx
2003-01-08 21:59                           ` Wes Groleau
2003-01-09 15:31                             ` Georg Bauhaus
2003-01-10  3:26                               ` Hyman Rosen
2003-01-10 22:58                                 ` Georg Bauhaus
2003-01-10  3:51                               ` Kevin Cline
2003-01-10 13:29                               ` Wes Groleau
2003-01-11 12:09                               ` Richard Riehle
2003-01-11 18:13                                 ` Wes Groleau
2003-01-09 16:52                           ` faust
2003-01-08 21:57                             ` Vinzent Hoefler
2003-01-09  0:59                       ` faust
2003-01-09  0:59                       ` faust
2003-01-08 13:14                         ` Ted Dennison
2003-01-08 17:41                         ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2003-01-09 16:40                           ` faust
2003-01-08 21:58                             ` Vinzent Hoefler
2002-12-23 21:30         ` Wes Groleau
2002-12-23 22:11           ` David Wright
2002-12-30 16:22         ` Mark
2002-12-24  0:50     ` Craig Carey
2002-12-29 14:44       ` Colin Paul Gloster
2002-12-21  8:39 ` arvids lemchens
2002-12-21  8:53 ` Gautier
2002-12-21  9:42 ` Craig Carey
2002-12-21 10:44 ` Dale Stanbrough
2002-12-21 15:47   ` Alfred Hilscher
2002-12-21 19:01     ` tmoran
2002-12-22  1:06       ` Robert C. Leif
2002-12-23 14:56         ` Wes Groleau
2002-12-23 11:05       ` Alfred Hilscher
2002-12-22  0:34     ` James S. Rogers
2002-12-23 11:11       ` Alfred Hilscher
2002-12-23 14:32         ` Wes Groleau
2002-12-23 19:54         ` tmoran
2002-12-21 10:51 ` Why is Ada a good choice for an ambitious beginner to programming Wojtek Narczynski
2002-12-22 14:40   ` Bill Findlay
2002-12-22 15:08     ` Bill Findlay
2002-12-22 23:02       ` David Wright
2002-12-23  1:36         ` Bill Findlay
2002-12-23  2:13           ` David Wright
2002-12-23 14:40           ` Wes Groleau
2002-12-27 21:25             ` Randy Brukardt
2002-12-23 11:52     ` Wojtek Narczynski
2002-12-23 14:12       ` Bill Findlay
2002-12-23 20:15         ` Wojtek Narczynski
2002-12-24 19:29           ` Bill Findlay
2002-12-24 22:56             ` Wojtek Narczynski
2002-12-24 23:31               ` Bill Findlay
2002-12-24 23:36               ` Adrian Knoth
2002-12-25  8:23             ` Hyman Rosen
2002-12-27 17:27               ` Kevin Cline
2002-12-28  1:56                 ` Bill Findlay
2002-12-28  2:13                   ` Bill Findlay
2002-12-29  6:07                   ` Hyman Rosen
2002-12-23 20:52         ` Wojtek Narczynski
2002-12-23 20:07     ` chris.danx
2003-01-02 10:04     ` John McCabe
2003-01-02 21:32       ` Bill Findlay
2003-01-04 22:55         ` David Wright
2003-01-05  0:50           ` Bill Findlay
2003-01-05  2:18             ` David Wright
2003-01-05  3:57               ` John R. Strohm
2003-01-10  2:51                 ` Richard Riehle
2003-01-10  9:45                   ` David Wright
2003-01-10 10:59                     ` Richard Riehle
2003-01-11 17:47                     ` u.r. faust
2003-01-06  9:43               ` John McCabe
2003-01-06 10:05         ` John McCabe
2003-01-06 11:13           ` Bill Findlay
2003-01-10  2:58           ` Richard Riehle
2003-01-10  9:29             ` John McCabe
2002-12-21 11:57 ` Why is Ada NOT a good choice for a beginner to programming? David Marceau
2002-12-21 15:59 ` Alfred Hilscher
2002-12-21 17:48 ` Britt Snodgrass
2002-12-21 20:05 ` Peter Hend�n
2002-12-22  1:54 ` faust
2002-12-22  1:28   ` Hyman Rosen
2002-12-22  2:11     ` Larry Kilgallen
2002-12-22 22:49     ` faust
     [not found] ` <u7m2ua.qk3.ln@beastie.ix.netcom.com>
2002-12-23 14:55   ` Wes Groleau
2002-12-24 14:01 ` W D Tate
2002-12-24 20:06   ` Rod Haper
2002-12-25  0:37   ` noone
2002-12-26 13:23     ` W D Tate
2002-12-26 20:37       ` David Starner
2002-12-27 14:02         ` W D Tate
2003-01-13 12:18 ` John English
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2002-12-21 15:47 Alexandre E. Kopilovitch
2002-12-23 14:48 ` Wes Groleau
2003-01-10  6:38 Grein, Christoph
2003-01-10  8:21 ` Hyman Rosen
2003-01-10 15:51 ` Kevin Cline
2003-01-10 19:00 ` Kevin Cline
2003-01-10  8:35 Grein, Christoph
2003-01-10  9:26 ` Hyman Rosen
2003-01-13 16:49 ` Hyman Rosen
2003-01-13  6:13 Grein, Christoph
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