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From: Maciej Sobczak <see.my.homepage@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Ada in command / control systems
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2019 13:43:12 -0800 (PST)
Date: 2019-02-26T13:43:12-08:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <9fbf4856-af67-473d-8249-97488f542068@googlegroups.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <lyef7utujr.fsf@pushface.org>

> > Moreover, after spending some time in the mixed SW/HW environment, I
> > would never assume engineers from other domains to be less competent
> > than software engineers.
> 
> It was a long time ago, and they may have learnt from terrible
> programmers, but I've seen some really bad boot code implemented by
> hardware guys.

And yet the same guys went through some well-defined process designing their hardware. They made diagrams, they calculated everything before actually implementing anything (so they used formal methods even without referring to this process this way), they planned they physical aspects and carefully designed the layout, they cared about traceability and made sure nothing got lost on the way, they validated all connections top-down and bottom-up and even made the bill of material for production. Considering the high cost of errors, they have put a lot of effort not to make any.

And then they went to coding the crappy boot loader that works only by chance.

What I'm interested in is how this is possible. Of course, it is easy for us (and self-flattering, right?) to just assume that they are simply incompetent, but I see some deeper problem here.
I think that during the last decades we have made it possible to produce crappy software. It's too cheap to fix to bother to make it right. This is the comfort that other domains do not have and this is what makes the difference in how engineering in different domains is practiced.

-- 
Maciej Sobczak * http://www.inspirel.com


  reply	other threads:[~2019-02-26 21:43 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 84+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2019-02-25  6:51 Ada in command / control systems Jesper Quorning
2019-02-25  8:24 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2019-02-25  9:44   ` Jesper Quorning
2019-02-25 15:54     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2019-02-25 13:50   ` russ lyttle
2019-02-25 14:29     ` gautier_niouzes
2019-02-25 15:25     ` Simon Wright
2019-02-25 19:21       ` russ lyttle
2019-02-26  4:50         ` J-P. Rosen
2019-02-26 15:50           ` Simon Wright
2019-02-26 22:10             ` lyttlec
2019-02-26 22:39               ` Niklas Holsti
2019-02-26 23:09               ` Simon Wright
2019-02-27 13:22                 ` russ lyttle
2019-02-27 14:17                   ` Niklas Holsti
2019-02-27 17:49                     ` russ lyttle
2019-02-25 19:53     ` Tero Koskinen
2019-02-25 20:15       ` russ lyttle
2019-03-01 14:56     ` fabien.chouteau
2019-03-01 16:58       ` Simon Wright
2019-03-01 21:19         ` russ lyttle
2019-03-01 22:32           ` fabien.chouteau
2019-03-01 23:24             ` russ lyttle
2019-02-25 21:18   ` Jesper Quorning
2019-02-26  9:28     ` Maciej Sobczak
2019-02-26 11:01       ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2019-02-26 21:25         ` Maciej Sobczak
2019-02-27  9:33           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2019-02-27 20:46             ` Maciej Sobczak
2019-02-27 21:55               ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2019-02-28 13:12                 ` Maciej Sobczak
2019-02-28 17:43                   ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2019-03-01  9:22                     ` Maciej Sobczak
2019-03-01 10:46                       ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2019-03-04  7:03                         ` Maciej Sobczak
2019-03-04 14:38                           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2019-03-05  9:33                             ` Maciej Sobczak
2019-03-05 16:09                               ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2019-03-06  9:05                                 ` Maciej Sobczak
2019-03-06 14:14                                   ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2019-03-07  7:02                                     ` Maciej Sobczak
2019-03-07  9:25                                       ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2019-03-08  7:19                                         ` Maciej Sobczak
2019-03-08 11:08                                           ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2019-03-08 17:00                                             ` Simon Wright
2019-03-08 17:38                                               ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2019-03-05  7:18                   ` G. B.
2019-03-05  9:28                     ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2019-03-05  9:51                       ` Maciej Sobczak
2019-03-05 16:15                         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2019-03-06 22:02                           ` Randy Brukardt
2019-03-05 17:55                         ` Niklas Holsti
2019-03-05 21:06                           ` Simon Wright
2019-03-06  7:26                           ` G. B.
2019-03-06  8:22                             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2019-03-06 12:04                               ` Simon Wright
2019-03-07  7:35                               ` G. B.
2019-03-07  9:25                                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2019-03-06  9:17                           ` Maciej Sobczak
2019-03-08 22:45                           ` russ lyttle
2019-03-09  8:16                             ` Simon Wright
2019-03-09  8:59                               ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2019-03-09 18:47                                 ` russ lyttle
2019-03-09 20:06                                 ` G.B.
2019-03-09 20:38                                   ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2019-03-09 18:34                               ` russ lyttle
2019-03-09 19:28                                 ` Simon Wright
2019-03-10 21:13                                   ` lyttlec
2019-03-11  8:56                                     ` Simon Wright
2019-03-11 14:27                                       ` russ lyttle
2019-03-11 17:01                                         ` Simon Wright
2019-03-11 21:55                                           ` russ lyttle
2019-03-05 11:59                       ` russ lyttle
2019-03-05 18:18                         ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2019-03-06  2:01                           ` lyttlec
2019-03-06  8:29                             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2019-02-26 15:54       ` Simon Wright
2019-02-26 21:43         ` Maciej Sobczak [this message]
2019-02-26 22:45           ` Simon Wright
2019-02-27  8:41             ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2019-02-27 20:55             ` Maciej Sobczak
2019-02-27 21:26               ` Simon Wright
2019-02-27 22:08                 ` Dmitry A. Kazakov
2019-02-27 11:04       ` Jesper Quorning
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