Ada lives?

Ada lives?

[Chris]

Can anyone point me to any recent analyses (or facts even ;-) that indicate
the current trends in the usage of Ada.  The sort of information I'm after
is...

- Is the use of Ada increasing or decreasing?
- How much Ada is used on new projects?
- Where is the Ada Tools market - total size, increasing or decreasing?
- How much is Ada 83 still being used vs Ada 95?

Many thanks,

Chris Chedgey.
Headway Software Ltd.
email:  chrisc at headway-software dot com

Re: Ada lives?

[Marin Condic]

Chris wrote:

> Can anyone point me to any recent analyses (or facts even ;-) that indicate
> the current trends in the usage of Ada.  The sort of information I'm after
> is...

This would be very interesting and useful information to have. Used to be AJPO
maintained at least some survey data on the usage of Ada, but I don't know if
anybody is tracking this sort of thing now. The compiler vendors ought to have
some data points based on sales, but that may have a low correlation with
project usage. I think it would be interesting to most of us in this group if
you find anything on the subject, so please post it here. Thanks.

MDC
--
Marin David Condic
If you hurry you can, for a short time only, still find me at:
Real Time & Embedded Systems, Propulsion Systems Analysis
United Technologies, Pratt & Whitney, Large Military Engines
M/S 731-95, P.O.B. 109600, West Palm Beach, FL, 33410-9600
***To reply, remove "bogon" from the domain name.***

Visit my web page at: http://www.mcondic.com/

Re: Ada lives?

[Tucker Taft]

Chris wrote:
> 
> Can anyone point me to any recent analyses (or facts even ;-) that indicate
> the current trends in the usage of Ada.  The sort of information I'm after
> is...
> 
> - Is the use of Ada increasing or decreasing?

It seems to be growing slowly but steadily, with a shift occurring toward
commercial use.

> - How much Ada is used on new projects?

It depends on the market.  In safety-critical systems, Ada is
a major player.  In desktop applications, Ada is a negligent
player.  

In real-time embedded systems, Ada is probably the
number 3 or 4, above languages like Modula, Eiffel, Pascal, but
below C/C++.  It is not clear where Java is in this market yet.

> - Where is the Ada Tools market - total size, increasing or decreasing?

Slowly but steadily increasing, somewhere in the range of $100-$200 million
(it is hard to be more specific because most of the companies are privately
held, or don't break out their Ada tools business separately).

> - How much is Ada 83 still being used vs Ada 95?

There are a number of large legacy projects that cannot justify
upgrading to Ada 95, except as part of a major system upgrade.
The large majority of new Ada projects use Ada 95 compilers.
It is of course hard to know which Ada 95 features they use.  One
can certainly continue to program in mostly-Ada-83 using an Ada 95
compiler, which makes sense in some environments.

> 
> Many thanks,
> 
> Chris Chedgey.
> Headway Software Ltd.
> email:  chrisc at headway-software dot com

-- 
-Tucker Taft   stt@averstar.com   http://www.averstar.com/~stt/
Technical Director, Distributed IT Solutions  (www.averstar.com/tools)
AverStar (formerly Intermetrics, Inc.)   Burlington, MA  USA

Re: Ada lives?

[Wes Groleau]

> It depends on the market.  In safety-critical systems, Ada is
> a major player.  In desktop applications, Ada is a negligent
> player.

To nit-pick a little slip:  Ada may be negligible in that domain, but
"negligent" describes _people_ who don't use Ada in safety-critical
systems.  :-)

Re: Ada lives?

[Bill Pritchett]

Great information.  To go even further though, what would be a rough
estimate of the current number of Ada projects around the world?

Bill Pritchett
DCS Corporation

"Tucker Taft" <stt@averstar.com> wrote in message
news:3835B21C.FFEF5C51@averstar.com...
> Chris wrote:
> >
> > Can anyone point me to any recent analyses (or facts even ;-) that
indicate
> > the current trends in the usage of Ada.  The sort of information I'm
after
> > is...
> >
> > - Is the use of Ada increasing or decreasing?
>
> It seems to be growing slowly but steadily, with a shift occurring toward
> commercial use.
>
> > - How much Ada is used on new projects?
>
> It depends on the market.  In safety-critical systems, Ada is
> a major player.  In desktop applications, Ada is a negligent
> player.
>
> In real-time embedded systems, Ada is probably the
> number 3 or 4, above languages like Modula, Eiffel, Pascal, but
> below C/C++.  It is not clear where Java is in this market yet.
>
> > - Where is the Ada Tools market - total size, increasing or decreasing?
>
> Slowly but steadily increasing, somewhere in the range of $100-$200
million
> (it is hard to be more specific because most of the companies are
privately
> held, or don't break out their Ada tools business separately).
>
> > - How much is Ada 83 still being used vs Ada 95?
>
> There are a number of large legacy projects that cannot justify
> upgrading to Ada 95, except as part of a major system upgrade.
> The large majority of new Ada projects use Ada 95 compilers.
> It is of course hard to know which Ada 95 features they use.  One
> can certainly continue to program in mostly-Ada-83 using an Ada 95
> compiler, which makes sense in some environments.
>
> >
> > Many thanks,
> >
> > Chris Chedgey.
> > Headway Software Ltd.
> > email:  chrisc at headway-software dot com
>
> --
> -Tucker Taft   stt@averstar.com   http://www.averstar.com/~stt/
> Technical Director, Distributed IT Solutions  (www.averstar.com/tools)
> AverStar (formerly Intermetrics, Inc.)   Burlington, MA  USA

Re: Ada lives?

[Robert Dewar]

In article <3835B21C.FFEF5C51@averstar.com>,
  Tucker Taft <stt@averstar.com> wrote:
> In desktop applications, Ada is a negligent player.
                                    ^^^^^^^^^

nice typo Tuck, though I expect there are some would be
marketing experts around who would agree :-) :-)



Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

Re: Ada lives?

[Michael Feldman]

Robert Dewar wrote:

> In article <3835B21C.FFEF5C51@averstar.com>,
>   Tucker Taft <stt@averstar.com> wrote:
> > In desktop applications, Ada is a negligent player.
>                                     ^^^^^^^^^
>
> nice typo Tuck, though I expect there are some would be
> marketing experts around who would agree :-) :-)

<heh-heh> some might say a Freudian slip?:-)

In any case, to reply to the original poster looking for information on
Ada usage, check out

http://www.seas.gwu.edu/~mfeldman/ada-project-summary.html

I've just updated this with a lot of stuff I've found recently on the
net,
and added a number of links to further info on the projects. Undoubtedly

there are some links I forgot to add, but you can also find similar info

at

http://www.acm.org/sigada/education

and

http://www.adaic.org

Each of these sites has some stuff the others don't (yet) link to.

Mike Feldman

Re: Ada lives?

[Michael Feldman]

Tucker Taft wrote:

> Chris wrote:
> >
> > Can anyone point me to any recent analyses (or facts even ;-) that indicate
> > the current trends in the usage of Ada.  The sort of information I'm after
> > is...
> >
> > - Is the use of Ada increasing or decreasing?
>
> It seems to be growing slowly but steadily, with a shift occurring toward
> commercial use.
>
> > - How much Ada is used on new projects?
>
> It depends on the market.  In safety-critical systems, Ada is
> a major player.  In desktop applications, Ada is a negligent
> player.
>
> [snip]
>
> --
> -Tucker Taft   stt@averstar.com   http://www.averstar.com/~stt/
> Technical Director, Distributed IT Solutions  (www.averstar.com/tools)
> AverStar (formerly Intermetrics, Inc.)   Burlington, MA  USA

RE: the safety-critical software domain. Ada is a very important
player in the growing domain of Communication-Based Train
Control (CBTC), everywhere from the TGV and Channel Tunnel
to metropolitan rail systems all over the world.

An especially interesting site on CBTC is

http://www.tsd.org/communic

which is updated almost daily with interesting info. For U.S.
readers, the most interesting point there is the likelihood that
an Ada-based software system will be chosen by New York
City Transit for its subway automation.  Rumors are flying
that Siemens/Matra will be selected to produce this system,
which is based on the Meteor software in Paris on the fully-
automated Line 14. This line has just passed its first anniversary
in service, and is carrying well upwards of 100,000 passengers
daily with very few (if any) technical problems.

A final decision by the New York state authorities is expected
tomorrow, Nov. 22. Check out the above site now to see the
conjecture, and tomorrow or Tuesday to see the result. If, as
expected, Matra is chosen, the New York subways will be
running on Ada very soon.

The CBTC site has links to many cities' projects; if you see
Matra's SACEM or PA135 mentioned as the control system,
you will know there's "Ada inside." (I've had this confirmed
by people close to the company.)

Mike Feldman

Re: Ada lives?

[Kent Paul Dolan]

Mike Feldman said:

=> http://www.tsd.org/communic

make that http://www.tsd.org/communic.htm and you have a very fine site
indeed.  Go up a level to see again how great computer people are at
predicting the future.


               ===== random archival quality quote =====

"Usenet  is the ephemera of the ephemera, the veritable words written on
dust,  the  phoenix  of speech, the sic transit to the gloria mundi.  My
name is Ozymandus, king.  Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair!"
                                         -- Doug Merritt doug@netcom.com

--
Kent Paul Dolan.
<xanthian@well.com> <xanthian@aztec.asu.edu> <xanthian@whistle.com>

Re: Ada lives?

[Vladimir Olensky]

Michael Feldman wrote in message <383868F9.7E1C0A36@seas.gwu.edu>...

>RE: the safety-critical software domain. Ada is a very important
>player in the growing domain of Communication-Based Train
>Control (CBTC), everywhere from the TGV and Channel Tunnel
>to metropolitan rail systems all over the world.
>
>An especially interesting site on CBTC is
>
>http://www.tsd.org/communic
>
> Rumors are flying that Siemens/Matra will be selected to produce
> this system, which is based on the Meteor software in Paris on the
> fully-automated Line 14. This line has just passed its first anniversary
>in service, and is carrying well upwards of 100,000 passengers
>daily with very few (if any) technical problems.
>
>A final decision by the New York state authorities is expected
>tomorrow, Nov. 22. Check out the above site now to see the
>conjecture, and tomorrow or Tuesday to see the result. If, as
>expected, Matra is chosen, the New York subways will be
>running on Ada very soon.


Decision has been taken as expected.
Matra is chosen

>The CBTC site has links to many cities' projects; if you see
>Matra's SACEM or PA135 mentioned as the control system,
>you will know there's "Ada inside." (I've had this confirmed
>by people close to the company.)


The problem though that there are no official references on
their  website regarding what language they used for "Meteor",
SACEM or PA135 . I spend some  time trying to find any
reference to Ada but could not.

References from people close to company is not the same as
company official references.
May be it is a company a top secret :-)

So I can't  use this example to convince other people in Ada.
But I'd like to.

Regards,
Vladimir Olensky

Re: Ada lives?

[Richard D Riehle]

In article <383868F9.7E1C0A36@seas.gwu.edu>,
	Michael Feldman <mfeldman@seas.gwu.edu> wrote:

>A final decision by the New York state authorities is expected
>tomorrow, Nov. 22. Check out the above site now to see the
>conjecture, and tomorrow or Tuesday to see the result. If, as
>expected, Matra is chosen, the New York subways will be
>running on Ada very soon.

I had planned to send this information to Michael Feldman
privately, but others in this forum might find it interesting.

I just returned yesterday from a computer conference among the
antipodeans of Australia.  Hal Hart was kind enough to supply me
with a set of Walnut Creek CD's and some CD's of Discovering Ada.

To my surprise, quite a few of the attendees from universities were
interested in having copies.  A couple of them indicated they were
considering Ada as a first year programming language.  I will give
Michael the email addresses in a separate mailing.  

We had a door prize raffle at the conference dinner and I included
donated, in the name of SigAda, a few of the CD's as door prizes. The
Master of Ceremonies, an avid Eiffel advocate, had great fun making
little jokes each time someone won an Ada CD, but he and others at the
conference acknowledged that Ada has not gone away.  

There were several others at the conference who had high regard for
Ada, and I think we were well-served by Mr. Hart's (SigAda's) donation
for the conference.  May I suggest that others among us, who are 
attending such conferences,  do the same.  

I am planning to attend the same conference next year, to present
a tutorial in Ada, and hope to have copies of other Ada compilers 
donated for the conference dinner raffle.  

Richard Riehle
http://www.adaworks.com