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From: "Nick Roberts" <nickroberts@adaos.worldonline.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Better support for garbage collection
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 02:30:19 -0000
Date: 2001-03-17T02:30:19+00:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <98umc6$39coj$1@ID-25716.news.dfncis.de> (raw)
In-Reply-To: wcck85pr56b.fsf@world.std.com

"Robert A Duff" <bobduff@world.std.com> wrote in message
news:wcck85pr56b.fsf@world.std.com...
>
> In fact, I think part of the reason GC didn't catch on for many years
> (Java is really the first popular GC'ed language) is the overblown
> claims of some GC zealots.

Java? What about BASIC? Good old Microsoft BASIC (for the Z80 -- remember
those?), that fitted into 8K ROM, had GC, as did a variety of other BASICs
(some of them even tinier). And they were pretty popular for a period. I
think your statement might upset a lot of LISP enthusiasts, too. (Not to
mention Smalltalk, Prolog, xBASE, and probably many others ;-)

> > > Memory leaks are indeed annoying.  GC can help a lot.  But it doesn't
> > > completely cure the problem -- you still have to use your brain when
> > > writing programs.  I've seen memory leaks in GC'ed programs.
> >
> > Static typing doesn't cure bugs either.
>
> Right, but there are fewer zealots making *that* claim.

Maybe not in so many words, but actually there are a lot of people who claim
that a static typing system causes more trouble than it is worth. I am on
this side of that particular fence, but I see their point (e.g. it can
reduce the size of the source code by several times, which in itself, it
could be claimed, improves readability).

> > My worry about GC in Ada would be that the bugs caused by the
interaction
> > of GC and unsafe features would be difficult.
>
> I think I've heard Robert Dewar express that attitude (ie, perhaps GC is
> inappropriate in a language that also has unsafe features).

Actually, I think, with a bit of care, it is possible to design a (perfectly
good) GC system that defends quite effectively against the worst effects of
'damage'.

I think, in the end, I will take the advice of both Brian and Bob, and
simply implement GC myself (in my own compiler which I'm writing for AdaOS).
I just thought it would be preferable to have a widely agreed framework
within which to design it first.

--
Nick Roberts
http://www.AdaOS.org







  parent reply	other threads:[~2001-03-17  2:30 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 115+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2001-03-13 18:37 Better support for garbage collection Nick Roberts
2001-03-14  8:16 ` Florian Weimer
2001-03-14 18:52   ` Robert A Duff
2001-03-14 19:40     ` Florian Weimer
2001-03-15 13:18       ` Nick Roberts
2001-03-14 19:29 ` Robert A Duff
2001-03-14 20:59   ` Brian Rogoff
2001-03-16 16:42     ` Robert A Duff
2001-03-17  6:13       ` Lao Xiao Hai
2001-03-24  4:08       ` Brian Rogoff
2001-03-15  4:35   ` Nick Roberts
2001-03-15 21:37     ` Randy Brukardt
2001-03-15 22:36     ` Stephen Leake
2001-03-16 16:26     ` Robert A Duff
2001-03-16 16:59       ` Brian Rogoff
2001-03-16 17:31         ` Robert A Duff
2001-03-16 18:29           ` Brian Rogoff
2001-03-17  2:30           ` Nick Roberts [this message]
2001-03-17 21:59             ` Robert A Duff
2001-03-17 22:57             ` Static typing (Was Re: Better support for garbage collection) Brian Rogoff
2001-03-17 23:45               ` Robert A Duff
2001-03-18  0:58                 ` Brian Rogoff
2001-03-19 15:24                   ` Robert A Duff
2001-03-20  4:21                     ` Brian Rogoff
2001-03-21  1:32                       ` Ken Garlington
2001-03-21 13:28                         ` Robert A Duff
2001-03-22  2:08                           ` Ken Garlington
2001-03-22 16:40                             ` Robert A Duff
2001-03-25 16:21                               ` Ken Garlington
2001-03-25 16:56                                 ` Ken Garlington
2001-03-25 22:31                                 ` Robert A Duff
2001-03-27  0:24                                   ` Ken Garlington
2001-03-28 23:15                                     ` Robert A Duff
2001-03-29  5:02                                       ` Ken Garlington
2001-03-29  6:13                                         ` David Starner
2001-03-29 10:10                                           ` AG
2001-03-29 14:28                                           ` Ken Garlington
2001-03-29 23:46                                         ` Robert A Duff
2001-03-30  3:41                                           ` Ken Garlington
2001-03-30 21:21                                             ` Robert A Duff
2001-03-31 19:30                                               ` Ken Garlington
2001-04-02 15:27                                                 ` Robert A Duff
2001-04-02 23:29                                                   ` Ken Garlington
2001-03-30 21:29                                             ` Robert A Duff
2001-03-30  9:16                                           ` Dmitry Kazakov
2001-03-30  9:51                                             ` Florian Weimer
2001-04-02  8:54                                               ` Dmitry Kazakov
2001-03-30 16:13                                             ` Ken Garlington
2001-04-02 11:00                                               ` Dmitry Kazakov
2001-03-30 20:44                                             ` Robert C. Leif, Ph.D.
2001-04-02 11:29                                               ` Dmitry Kazakov
2001-04-02 13:15                                                 ` Robert A Duff
2001-04-03  8:57                                                   ` Dmitry Kazakov
2001-03-27  2:39                             ` Andrew Berg
2001-03-27  3:33                               ` Ken Garlington
2001-03-27 14:23                                 ` Robert A Duff
2001-03-27 23:36                                   ` Ken Garlington
2001-03-29 23:50                       ` Robert A Duff
2001-03-19 18:24       ` Better support for garbage collection Tucker Taft
     [not found]   ` <87bsr46kxv.fsf@deneb.enyo.de>
2001-03-15 14:18     ` Robert A Duff
2001-03-15 16:36       ` Florian Weimer
2001-03-14 22:05 ` Laurent Guerby
2001-03-16 16:47   ` Robert A Duff
2001-03-16 19:46     ` Laurent Guerby
2001-03-16 20:10       ` Robert A Duff
2001-03-17 13:14         ` Support for per allocation pool selection (was: Better support for garbage collection) Laurent Guerby
2001-03-17 17:06           ` Robert A Duff
2001-03-17 19:19           ` Florian Weimer
2001-03-17 21:10             ` Robert A Duff
2001-03-15 17:56 ` Better support for garbage collection Ray Blaak
2001-03-21 16:15 ` Implementing C/C++ style #include bhazzard
2001-03-21 16:45   ` Marin David Condic
2001-03-22 15:13     ` Ira D. Baxter
2001-03-22 15:23       ` Marin David Condic
2001-03-25 15:45         ` Anton Gibbs
2001-03-26 14:24           ` Ted Dennison
2001-03-26 15:00             ` Marin David Condic
2001-03-26 14:49           ` Marin David Condic
2001-03-26 18:19             ` Stephen Leake
2001-03-26 18:44               ` Pascal Obry
2001-03-26 21:44                 ` Robert A Duff
2001-03-27  3:02                   ` Andrew Berg
2001-03-27  3:27                     ` Phaedrus
2001-03-27 17:41                   ` Pascal Obry
2001-03-26 19:18               ` Ted Dennison
2001-03-27 18:51                 ` Anton Gibbs
2001-03-26 19:35               ` Marin David Condic
2001-03-26 23:04                 ` Mark Lundquist
2001-03-27 14:38                   ` Marin David Condic
2001-03-26 16:12           ` Florian Weimer
2001-03-26 17:34             ` David Starner
2001-03-26 22:25               ` Florian Weimer
2001-03-27  3:29                 ` David Starner
2001-03-26 18:23             ` Stephen Leake
2001-03-26 22:34               ` Florian Weimer
2001-03-27  7:34         ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
2001-03-27 12:43           ` Dale Stanbrough
2001-03-27 14:40             ` Marin David Condic
2001-03-27 15:01             ` Ted Dennison
2001-03-27 13:20           ` Preben Randhol
2001-03-23 17:39       ` Wes Groleau
2001-03-21 18:07   ` Mark Lundquist
2001-03-22 12:50   ` Chris M. Moore
2001-03-22 14:30     ` Marin David Condic
2001-03-22 21:15       ` singlespeeder
2001-03-22 21:42         ` Marin David Condic
2001-03-23 14:43           ` Georg Bauhaus
2001-03-23 18:51             ` Marin David Condic
2001-03-22 15:02     ` Pat Rogers
2001-03-22 15:28       ` Marin David Condic
2001-03-22 16:32       ` Chris M. Moore
2001-03-22 16:57       ` Robert A Duff
2001-03-26 16:13   ` Martin Dowie
2001-03-26 22:55   ` Phaedrus
2001-03-27  1:36     ` tmoran
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