* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!!
@ 1997-11-20 0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-96
0 siblings, 0 replies; 105+ messages in thread
From: Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-96 @ 1997-11-20 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
Matt Corey <mcorey@ITSNET.COM> writes:
>The Java v. Ada v. C v. C++ v. Pascal v. Tcl v. Forth v. Scheme v. Eiffel v.
>Sather v. Awk v. Perl v. Basic v. B v. CLOS ( breath ) v. Flavors v. RPG v.
>COBOL v. Fortran v. Clipper v. Modulax v. ObjectiveC v. PL/1 v. PLM v.
>Assembler v. Rexx v. Smalltalk v. Python language war has now added English.
>:-)
>
This thread has certainly degenerated quite a bit to the point
where it has become hopelessly silly. Maybe we should toss in yet
one more programming language to debate? How about Befunge - the
worlds first two dimensional programming language:
http://www.cats-eye.com/cet/soft/lang/befunge/
I was rather impressed by it ;-)
MDC
Marin David Condic, Senior Computer Engineer Voice: 561.796.8997
Pratt & Whitney GESP, M/S 731-96, P.O.B. 109600 Fax: 561.796.4669
West Palm Beach, FL, 33410-9600 Internet: CONDICMA@PWFL.COM
===============================================================================
"Some people say a front-engine car handles best. Some people say
a rear-engine car handles best. I say a rented car handles best."
-- P. J. O'Rourke
===============================================================================
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! @ 1997-11-20 0:00 Justin Ng 0 siblings, 0 replies; 105+ messages in thread From: Justin Ng @ 1997-11-20 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) In-Reply-To: <64vs87$1ms@corn.cso.niu.edu> On 19 Nov 1997 system@niuhep.physics.niu.edu wrote: > Date: 19 NOV 1997 23:20:39 GMT > From: system@niuhep.physics.niu.edu > Newgroups: comp.lang.ada, comp.lang.c, comp.lang.c++, > comp.lang.java.advocacy, comp.lang.pascal.ansi-iso, > comp.lang.pascal.misc > Subject: Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! > > "John Rickard" wrote: > >Davide Bionda <bionda@erdw.ethz.ch> wrote: > >>"John Rickard" wrote: > > >why should I waste my time RE learning a language I have understood > >and spoke since around 1-3 years of age? You sound as if you're left with no choice? Well....bear in mind, the world is always changing, it's either you change the environment to suit your needs or you change your needs to suit the environment. Well, of course, you alway have a choice, no one is forcing you, you can remain as it is as well. > >>>there are not more chinese speakers than english. > >>>if you have not relized it but the english language it the most > >>>widely used language as a standard. why? cause us americans want > >>>it that way ;) I know both chinese and english, I can communicate using both language, (in a versatile way?), so I can have more friends than you do huh? > ================================================================================ > "John Rickard" <saskan@spam.worldnet.spam.att.spam.net.spam> > >J-S Payette wrote: > > >>I've never learn english and I talk better than you. > >^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^And you should so you can learn proper > >vocabulary skills. > > Given the construction of the above sentence/phrase I wouldn't > be so quick to be critical of others' language abilities. > At least you're capitalizing. He who knows does not speak, he who speaks does not know. > >>Now about Pascal and C let me tell you that in some case (strings and file > >>manipulation, most object handling) Pascal is way better and I know both > >>language (unlike you!!) > > >And how do you know what languages I know? > > I don't know about languages, but given the amount of formatting I > had to do to make this message legible I would say you don't know > much about newsreaders. > > >So if you want a fight about who knows more we can skip the whole > >programming aspect and take this a intelectual level and have a > >battle of the wits. And I can promise you I will win. He who is ruled by men lives in sorrow, he who rules men lives in confusion. I chose not to be in either position instead. No one is a sure winner. Who knows, there are so many people around the whole world, it's just that you never get a chance to meet them, not that they don't exist in this world. You are just asking for a loser that's all, I believe there will be people who are kind enough to entertain your needs. > >- > >Damn near any idiot can program. But it takes a Genius to become > >successful at it. > >- > >hardly, I can prove rather easily that I can speak my language better > >than you. I mean I have only been speaking it since I have been able > >to speak. > > Please go find a style book and look up continuity and making transitions. > > >As for talking better than me... Try reading you message and tell me > >you don't talk like a 12 year old. > > Try rereading your messages and understand that: > 1) you can't take a joke, > 2) your intuitive grammer sucks > 3) some people might think your emotional age matches Jean's skills > at his 2nd written/spoken language. Hehe...just add to the list above, 4) you need someone to entertain you simply by losing to you 5) you just can't afford to lose 6) you know you don't deserve respect from others -- Justin Ng ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* ADA SUCKS, C/C++/JAVA RULES!!!! @ 1997-10-28 0:00 John Black 1997-10-28 0:00 ` John Black 0 siblings, 1 reply; 105+ messages in thread From: John Black @ 1997-10-28 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) I have tried and tried to program with Ada, but it is downright impossible. I just don't see how anyone could - or would want to - use this outdated piece of crap. It's back to C++ and Java for me. Hopefully Ada and other languages will go the way of the dinosaur and get hit by a meteor, disappearing from the face of the earth. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* Re: ADA SUCKS, C/C++/JAVA RULES!!!! 1997-10-28 0:00 ADA SUCKS, C/C++/JAVA RULES!!!! John Black @ 1997-10-28 0:00 ` John Black 1997-10-28 0:00 ` ADA and Pascal SUCK, C,C++, and Java are the only languages you need!! John Black 0 siblings, 1 reply; 105+ messages in thread From: John Black @ 1997-10-28 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) You guys say what you want but it's true. ADA is good for nothing. C++, on the other hand, is the only language you need. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* ADA and Pascal SUCK, C,C++, and Java are the only languages you need!! 1997-10-28 0:00 ` John Black @ 1997-10-28 0:00 ` John Black 1997-10-29 0:00 ` Xu Yifeng 0 siblings, 1 reply; 105+ messages in thread From: John Black @ 1997-10-28 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) ADA and Pascal are two of the most useless inventions Man has ever wasted space on this planet with. These languages are hard to learn, have zero applications, and people who only know these languages can only find jobs at Taco Bell! Smart programmers spend their time learning only C, C++, and Java in that order. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* Re: ADA and Pascal SUCK, C,C++, and Java are the only languages you need!! 1997-10-28 0:00 ` ADA and Pascal SUCK, C,C++, and Java are the only languages you need!! John Black @ 1997-10-29 0:00 ` Xu Yifeng [not found] ` <347067B8.46@lysator.liu.se> 0 siblings, 1 reply; 105+ messages in thread From: Xu Yifeng @ 1997-10-29 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) John Black wrote: > > ADA and Pascal are two of the most useless inventions Man has ever > wasted space on this planet with. These languages are hard to learn, > have zero applications, and people who only know these languages can > only find jobs at Taco Bell! Smart programmers spend their time > learning only C, C++, and Java in that order. Let Pascal and ADA exist in the world, otherwise, we won't feel C/C++ is better language. Regards, Xu Yifeng ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
[parent not found: <347067B8.46@lysator.liu.se>]
[parent not found: <64qllr$c45@mtinsc03.worldnet.att.net>]
* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! [not found] ` <64qllr$c45@mtinsc03.worldnet.att.net> @ 1997-11-18 0:00 ` Davide Bionda 1997-11-18 0:00 ` Timo Salmi ` (3 more replies) 1997-11-18 0:00 ` JCore [not found] ` <34745A75.D22E132D@zeelandnet.nl> 2 siblings, 4 replies; 105+ messages in thread From: Davide Bionda @ 1997-11-18 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) >there are not more chinese speakers than english. >if you have not relized it but the english language it the most >widely used language as a standard. why? cause us americans want it >that way ;) Then you should try to learn it ;-) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! 1997-11-18 0:00 ` English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language " Davide Bionda @ 1997-11-18 0:00 ` Timo Salmi 1997-11-18 0:00 ` John Rickard ` (2 subsequent siblings) 3 siblings, 0 replies; 105+ messages in thread From: Timo Salmi @ 1997-11-18 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) In article <3471428A.6193@erdw.ethz.ch>, Davide Bionda <bionda@erdw.ethz.ch> wrote: (Concerning the parody about ADA and Pascal SUCK, C,C++, and Java are the only langauges you need!) :>there are not more chinese speakers than english. :>if you have not relized it but the english language it the most :>widely used language as a standard. why? cause us americans want it :>that way ;) : :Then you should try to learn it ;-) But, but ... the Americans want it that way. All the best, Timo (aka Perfesser Pundit in news:rec.humor) (Folloups to news:rec.humor _*ONLY*_) .................................................................... Prof. Timo Salmi Co-moderator of news:comp.archives.msdos.announce Moderating at ftp:// & http://garbo.uwasa.fi/ archives 193.166.120.5 Department of Accounting and Business Finance ; University of Vaasa mailto:ts@uwasa.fi <http://www.uwasa.fi/~ts/> ; FIN-65101, Finland Spam foiling in effect. My email filter autoresponder will return a required email password to users not yet in the privileges database. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! 1997-11-18 0:00 ` English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language " Davide Bionda 1997-11-18 0:00 ` Timo Salmi @ 1997-11-18 0:00 ` John Rickard 1997-11-18 0:00 ` Mark Wilden ` (4 more replies) [not found] ` <64sql2$k0@ <YSQz$BJ98GA.158@news2.ingr.com> [not found] ` <64sql2$k0@ <3473407e.17757163@lhc.nlm.nih.gov> 3 siblings, 5 replies; 105+ messages in thread From: John Rickard @ 1997-11-18 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) why should I waste my time RE learning a language I have understood and spoke since around 1-3 years of age? -- -- Remove .DONTSPAMME from my email address to send me REAL email. -- Davide Bionda <bionda@erdw.ethz.ch> wrote in article <3471428A.6193@erdw.ethz.ch>... : >there are not more chinese speakers than english. : >if you have not relized it but the english language it the most : >widely used language as a standard. why? cause us americans want it : >that way ;) : : Then you should try to learn it ;-) : ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! 1997-11-18 0:00 ` John Rickard @ 1997-11-18 0:00 ` Mark Wilden 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Les Hazlewood 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Kaz Kylheku 1997-11-18 0:00 ` Chieh Cheng ` (3 subsequent siblings) 4 siblings, 2 replies; 105+ messages in thread From: Mark Wilden @ 1997-11-18 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) John Rickard wrote: > > why should I waste my time RE learning a language I have understood > and spoke since around 1-3 years of age? Three reasons: 1) "RE learning" requires a hyphen. 2) "spoke" should be "spoken." 3) In "around 1-3", "around" is redundant. Hey, you asked. :) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! 1997-11-18 0:00 ` Mark Wilden @ 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Les Hazlewood 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Kaz Kylheku 1 sibling, 0 replies; 105+ messages in thread From: Les Hazlewood @ 1997-11-19 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) In article <3471F184.7924@mWilden.com>, Mark Wilden <Mark@mWilden.com> wrote: > John Rickard wrote: > > > > why should I waste my time RE learning a language I have understood > > and spoke since around 1-3 years of age? > > Three reasons: > > 1) "RE learning" requires a hyphen. > > 2) "spoke" should be "spoken." > > 3) In "around 1-3", "around" is redundant. > > Hey, you asked. :) Their his know knead too no ow too right English :-) -- Ignore the anti-spamming address given above and sent any replies to: Email : hazlewlj@aston.ac.uk Tel : +44 (0)121 359 3611 x 4271 Fax: : +44 (0)121 333 6215 Smail : Dr L J Hazlewood, Department of Computer Science, Aston University, Aston Triangle, Birmingham B4 7ET, United Kingdom ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! 1997-11-18 0:00 ` Mark Wilden 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Les Hazlewood @ 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Kaz Kylheku 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Mark Wilden ` (2 more replies) 1 sibling, 3 replies; 105+ messages in thread From: Kaz Kylheku @ 1997-11-19 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) In article <3471F184.7924@mWilden.com>, Mark Wilden <Mark@mWilden.com> wrote: >John Rickard wrote: >> >> why should I waste my time RE learning a language I have understood >> and spoke since around 1-3 years of age? > >Three reasons: > >1) "RE learning" requires a hyphen. Hyphens are not part of the language, they are just an orthographic convention. If you disagree, then tell me what sound the hyphen makes in the pronounciation of ``re-learning''? ;) Incidentally, re-learning would actually be written relearning. Hyphenation is only used when words are combined in an unusual way, particularly two nouns. When a certain combination becomes commonplace, the hyphen disappears. A hyphen need not be used to separate a prefix from a word. Do you write ``re-generate'', ``un-happy'', or ``black-board'' instead of ``regenerate'', ``unhappy'' or ``blackboard''? Of course, hackers are divided on this issue. You have the BlackBoard camp, and the black_board camp. :))) In English, nouns can be combined simply by juxtaposition to form compound nouns. For example: ``law school entrance requirement examination result'' This combination could serve, in a sentence, in the place of a simple noun. Since this combination is arbitrary, rather than an idiom that often appears in the language, we do not write it using hyphens between the nouns. (But contrast this to German, in whose writing system strings of nouns are commonly pasted together without whitespace). In the English, when two nouns tend to be commonly associated, people start writing the hyphen. Eventually, when two words meld to the point that the meaning of the sum is more than the combination of the meanings of the two parts, the words are simply written together. In effect, a new word results. A blackboard is more than just a board that is black. >2) "spoke" should be "spoken." Touche. That could be a typo. No native speaker of English would say ``I have understood and (I have) spoke'' unless he or she happened to blunder. It's awfully faulty parallelism. :) - Kaz (an English speaker since the age of twelve). ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Kaz Kylheku @ 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Mark Wilden 1997-12-17 0:00 ` Jeffrey George 1997-11-19 0:00 ` system 1997-11-27 0:00 ` Denny 2 siblings, 1 reply; 105+ messages in thread From: Mark Wilden @ 1997-11-19 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) Kaz Kylheku wrote: > > Hyphens are not part of the language, they are just an orthographic convention. And what do you suppose "orthographic conventions" are part of, if not the language? Are you saying there is no difference between "release" and "re-lease"? > If you disagree, then tell me what sound the hyphen makes in the pronounciation > of ``re-learning''? ;) Only if you tell me what sound the "p" makes in "ptarmigan." Sound is just one component of language. > Incidentally, re-learning would actually be written relearning. Hyphenation is > only used when words are combined in an unusual way, particularly two nouns. That's actually true, according to modern style. For example, I recently won a battle over how to spell "multiplayer" in a manual, against those who preferred to hyphenate it. > When a certain combination becomes commonplace, the hyphen disappears. The guy wrote "re learning." A hyphen could have been used, or it could have been made one word, I agree. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Mark Wilden @ 1997-12-17 0:00 ` Jeffrey George 1997-12-17 0:00 ` Mark Wilden 0 siblings, 1 reply; 105+ messages in thread From: Jeffrey George @ 1997-12-17 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) This is a defunct thread which has, at this point, absolutely nothing to do with ada, c, or c++, but I couldn't help but be intrigued enough to respond to all the same newsgroups where it appeared. Here's my two cents: Mark Wilden wrote: > > Kaz Kylheku wrote: > > > > Hyphens are not part of the language, they are just an orthographic convention. > > And what do you suppose "orthographic conventions" are part of, if not > the language? Are you saying there is no difference between "release" > and "re-lease"? I'm not sure I follow your logic here; are you saying that there must be a difference between, "re-animate" and "reanimate", simply because they are written differently? Surely you don't mean to suggest the converse, that words which are pronounced and written identically must always have the same meaning? It might be a shock to the pope to find that he was periodically releasing a big, smelly, male animal, when all he meant to do was make an official publication! Well fortunately for the pope, we differentiate "bull" from "bull", and there is very little confusion. Once an expression, like "re-activate", enters common usage, the hyphen vanishes because the word "reactivate" is adopted as part of the common vocabulary which no longer needs to be clarified by the visual breakdown of its morphological components. In other words, from a historical viewpoint, the hyphen is a temporary convenience used to facilitate the entry of new words into the language's phonological writing system. Jeff -- ---------------- Jeff George jgeorge@texas.net When all other means of communication fail, try words. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! 1997-12-17 0:00 ` Jeffrey George @ 1997-12-17 0:00 ` Mark Wilden 0 siblings, 0 replies; 105+ messages in thread From: Mark Wilden @ 1997-12-17 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) Jeffrey George wrote: > > I'm not sure I follow your logic here; are you saying that there must be > a difference between, "re-animate" and "reanimate", simply because they > are written differently? No, there doesn't have to be a difference in all cases. In some case,s though, there is a difference: re-lease and release, e.g. At any rate, this began when someone used a space between "re" and another word, and this is incorrect. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Kaz Kylheku 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Mark Wilden @ 1997-11-19 0:00 ` system 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Matt Corey ` (2 more replies) 1997-11-27 0:00 ` Denny 2 siblings, 3 replies; 105+ messages in thread From: system @ 1997-11-19 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) kaz@helios.crest.nt.com (Kaz Kylheku) writes: >Mark Wilden <Mark@mWilden.com> wrote: >>John Rickard wrote: >>> why should I waste my time RE learning a language I have understood >>> and spoke since around 1-3 years of age? >>Three reasons: >>1) "RE learning" requires a hyphen. >Incidentally, re-learning would actually be written relearning. Maybe. John wanted to emphasize "RE", so I think he should have typed "RE-learning". No hyphen would have been ok, clearly a space is incorrect. >>2) "spoke" should be "spoken." >Touche. That could be a typo. Probably, but since this was a response to a criticism based on the typos made by John you would think he would be a bit more carefull. (The criticism included a smilie and I do think was made in good humor, something John seems to lack) Robert Morphis@physics.niu.edu Real Women change tires abuse@uu.net postmaster@uu.net Real Men change diapers security@uu.net ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! 1997-11-19 0:00 ` system @ 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Matt Corey 1997-11-29 0:00 ` D. Ross 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Kaz Kylheku 1997-11-26 0:00 ` michael j tobler 2 siblings, 1 reply; 105+ messages in thread From: Matt Corey @ 1997-11-19 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) The Java v. Ada v. C v. C++ v. Pascal v. Tcl v. Forth v. Scheme v. Eiffel v. Sather v. Awk v. Perl v. Basic v. B v. CLOS ( breath ) v. Flavors v. RPG v. COBOL v. Fortran v. Clipper v. Modulax v. ObjectiveC v. PL/1 v. PLM v. Assembler v. Rexx v. Smalltalk v. Python language war has now added English. :-) -- Matthew F. Corey mcorey@itsnet.com Software Engineer Rigaku USA/MSC http://www.msc.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Matt Corey @ 1997-11-29 0:00 ` D. Ross 1997-11-29 0:00 ` Spaceman Spiff 1997-11-29 0:00 ` Mark Wilden 0 siblings, 2 replies; 105+ messages in thread From: D. Ross @ 1997-11-29 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) Matt Corey wrote: > > The Java v. Ada v. C v. C++ v. Pascal v. Tcl v. Forth v. Scheme v. Eiffel v. > Sather v. Awk v. Perl v. Basic v. B v. CLOS ( breath ) v. Flavors v. RPG v. > COBOL v. Fortran v. Clipper v. Modulax v. ObjectiveC v. PL/1 v. PLM v. > Assembler v. Rexx v. Smalltalk v. Python language war has now added English. We should get Mr. Stroustrup to re-do English... and call it English++. Just think how efficient we'd all be if everything we said was polymorphic, overloaded, object-oriented and templatized! Only problem, it would take 10 minutes to think of (compile) a sentence before we said it. And everyone's speech center (compiler) would perpetually be one version behind the Standard. -- derekr@escape.ca Derek Ross ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! 1997-11-29 0:00 ` D. Ross @ 1997-11-29 0:00 ` Spaceman Spiff 1997-11-29 0:00 ` Mark Wilden 1 sibling, 0 replies; 105+ messages in thread From: Spaceman Spiff @ 1997-11-29 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) D. Ross wrote: > > Matt Corey wrote: > > > > The Java v. Ada v. C v. C++ v. Pascal v. Tcl v. Forth v. Scheme v. Eiffel v. > > Sather v. Awk v. Perl v. Basic v. B v. CLOS ( breath ) v. Flavors v. RPG v. > > COBOL v. Fortran v. Clipper v. Modulax v. ObjectiveC v. PL/1 v. PLM v. > > Assembler v. Rexx v. Smalltalk v. Python language war has now added English. > > We should get Mr. Stroustrup to re-do English... and call it English++. > > Just think how efficient we'd all be if everything we said was > polymorphic, overloaded, object-oriented and templatized! Oh yeah! I'd just love to overload some nouns! Having several potential meanings for gault would make life easier. :-) -Scotty ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! 1997-11-29 0:00 ` D. Ross 1997-11-29 0:00 ` Spaceman Spiff @ 1997-11-29 0:00 ` Mark Wilden 1997-12-02 0:00 ` William Rapp 1 sibling, 1 reply; 105+ messages in thread From: Mark Wilden @ 1997-11-29 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) D. Ross wrote: > > Just think how efficient we'd all be if everything we said was > polymorphic, overloaded, object-oriented and templatized! Language is already all of those things. That's one reason why OOP is, in general, a good way to program--it's closer to the way people think. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! 1997-11-29 0:00 ` Mark Wilden @ 1997-12-02 0:00 ` William Rapp 0 siblings, 0 replies; 105+ messages in thread From: William Rapp @ 1997-12-02 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) In comp.lang.c Mark Wilden <Mark@mWilden.com> wrote: : D. Ross wrote: : > : > Just think how efficient we'd all be if everything we said was : > polymorphic, overloaded, object-oriented and templatized! : Language is already all of those things. That's one reason why OOP is, : in general, a good way to program--it's closer to the way people think. AND IF THEY NEVER LEARN TO WRITE REAL CODE (BECOME DEPENDANT), ARE LIMITED TO SOMEONE ELSES SQUARE PEG IN A ROUND HOLE. -AS ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! 1997-11-19 0:00 ` system 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Matt Corey @ 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Kaz Kylheku 1997-11-20 0:00 ` Boyd Roberts 1997-11-26 0:00 ` michael j tobler 2 siblings, 1 reply; 105+ messages in thread From: Kaz Kylheku @ 1997-11-19 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) In article <64vpcn$ni7@corn.cso.niu.edu>, <system@niuhep.physics.niu.edu> wrote: >kaz@helios.crest.nt.com (Kaz Kylheku) writes: >>Touche. That could be a typo. > >Probably, but since this was a response to a criticism based on the typos >made by John you would think he would be a bit more carefull. Carefull? :) Is that a blunder or an instance of irony? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Kaz Kylheku @ 1997-11-20 0:00 ` Boyd Roberts 0 siblings, 0 replies; 105+ messages in thread From: Boyd Roberts @ 1997-11-20 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) [-- Warning: decoded text below may be mangled, UTF-8 assumed --] [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 661 bytes --] In article <650je4$s5p$1@helios.crest.nt.com>, kaz@helios.crest.nt.com (Kaz Kylheku) writes: >In article <64vpcn$ni7@corn.cso.niu.edu>, > <system@niuhep.physics.niu.edu> wrote: >>kaz@helios.crest.nt.com (Kaz Kylheku) writes: >>>Touche. That could be a typo. >> >>Probably, but since this was a response to a criticism based on the typos >>made by John you would think he would be a bit more carefull. > >Carefull? :) Is that a blunder or an instance of irony? Blunder. It's written touch�. -- Boyd Roberts <boyd@france3.fr> UTM N 31 447109 5411310 En fin, bon, bref, si tu veux, point � la ligne, voil� quoi -- Jacques SPAT: fred@ultramax.net ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! 1997-11-19 0:00 ` system 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Matt Corey 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Kaz Kylheku @ 1997-11-26 0:00 ` michael j tobler 2 siblings, 0 replies; 105+ messages in thread From: michael j tobler @ 1997-11-26 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) This thread is started to suck, let's move on ... -- blue skies michael j. tobler, mailto:mjtobler@ix.netcom.com system@niuhep.physics.niu.edu wrote: > kaz@helios.crest.nt.com (Kaz Kylheku) writes: > >Mark Wilden <Mark@mWilden.com> wrote: > >>John Rickard wrote: > > >>> why should I waste my time RE learning a language I have understood > >>> and spoke since around 1-3 years of age? > > >>Three reasons: > > >>1) "RE learning" requires a hyphen. > > >Incidentally, re-learning would actually be written relearning. > > Maybe. John wanted to emphasize "RE", so I think he should have > typed "RE-learning". No hyphen would have been ok, clearly a space > is incorrect. > > >>2) "spoke" should be "spoken." > > >Touche. That could be a typo. > > Probably, but since this was a response to a criticism based on the typos > made by John you would think he would be a bit more carefull. > (The criticism included a smilie and I do think was made in good humor, > something John seems to lack) > > Robert > > Morphis@physics.niu.edu > Real Women change tires abuse@uu.net postmaster@uu.net > Real Men change diapers security@uu.net ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Kaz Kylheku 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Mark Wilden 1997-11-19 0:00 ` system @ 1997-11-27 0:00 ` Denny 2 siblings, 0 replies; 105+ messages in thread From: Denny @ 1997-11-27 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) On 19 Nov 1997 10:44:35 -0800, kaz@helios.crest.nt.com (Kaz Kylheku) wrote: >>2) "spoke" should be "spoken." > >Touche. That could be a typo. No native speaker of English would say ``I have >understood and (I have) spoke'' unless he or she happened to blunder. It's >awfully faulty parallelism. :) > >- Kaz (an English speaker since the age of twelve). No native speaker of English would make such a blunder? Blunder implies unintentional. Evidently you be forgetting about Ebonics. I be, you be, he be, we be, they be. All correct and proper in some circles. ;-) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! 1997-11-18 0:00 ` John Rickard 1997-11-18 0:00 ` Mark Wilden @ 1997-11-18 0:00 ` Chieh Cheng 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Gary A. Wiltshire 1997-11-19 0:00 ` John Rickard 1997-11-18 0:00 ` Billy Chambless ` (2 subsequent siblings) 4 siblings, 2 replies; 105+ messages in thread From: Chieh Cheng @ 1997-11-18 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) For one thing, your grammer sucks. And learn to capitalize. Isn't ironic when an American who learned English since he/she was born, write English worse than people with other nationalities? On 18 Nov 1997 19:34:58 GMT, "John Rickard" <saskan@worldnet.att.net.DONTSPAMME> wrote: >why should I waste my time RE learning a language I have understood >and spoke since around 1-3 years of age? > >Davide Bionda <bionda@erdw.ethz.ch> wrote in article ><3471428A.6193@erdw.ethz.ch>... >: >there are not more chinese speakers than english. >: >if you have not relized it but the english language it the most >: >widely used language as a standard. why? cause us americans want >it >: >that way ;) >: >: Then you should try to learn it ;-) >: CC -- http://www.geocities.com/Area51/8145/ Up the mountain, down the slope. Around the tree trunks, past the streams. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! 1997-11-18 0:00 ` Chieh Cheng @ 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Gary A. Wiltshire 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Dennis Weldy 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Chieh Cheng 1997-11-19 0:00 ` John Rickard 1 sibling, 2 replies; 105+ messages in thread From: Gary A. Wiltshire @ 1997-11-19 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) chiehcheng@iname.com (Chieh Cheng) wrote: ..... >For one thing, your grammer sucks. And learn to capitalize. Isn't >ironic when an American who learned English since he/she was born, >write English worse than people with other nationalities? ..... I don't normally pick on people for their English errors, particularly someone who's learned it as a second language. Since you've seen fit to do that, be advised that it is grammAr, not grammEr! The second sentence above is (at least) stylistically dubious. The third is plainly ungrammatical. Let's lighten up a bit and criticize CONTENT of posts -- there is a lot of meat there. --- Gary Wiltshire ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Gary A. Wiltshire @ 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Dennis Weldy 1997-11-19 0:00 ` John Rickard 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Chieh Cheng 1 sibling, 1 reply; 105+ messages in thread From: Dennis Weldy @ 1997-11-19 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) Ok, jumping on the content of Chieh's post, if you'll note he merely ASSUMES the idividual is American, when there are penty of other countries where the original poster couldve learned English from 1-3 years of age. England, Ireland, Canada, Australia,.... all sorts of places :) Dennis Gary A. Wiltshire <70523.3077@compuserve.com> wrote in message <3472e573.3440168@news.albany.net>... >chiehcheng@iname.com (Chieh Cheng) wrote: >..... >>For one thing, your grammer sucks. And learn to capitalize. Isn't >>ironic when an American who learned English since he/she was born, >>write English worse than people with other nationalities? >..... >I don't normally pick on people for their English errors, particularly >someone who's learned it as a second language. Since you've seen fit >to do that, be advised that it is grammAr, not grammEr! The second >sentence above is (at least) stylistically dubious. The third is >plainly ungrammatical. Let's lighten up a bit and criticize CONTENT >of posts -- there is a lot of meat there. > > --- Gary Wiltshire ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Dennis Weldy @ 1997-11-19 0:00 ` John Rickard 1997-11-21 0:00 ` Dennis Weldy 0 siblings, 1 reply; 105+ messages in thread From: John Rickard @ 1997-11-19 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) They assumed I was american BECAUSE I mentioned the fact I was in I beleive the 2nd post I made in my defense. -- -- Remove "spam" from my email address to send me REAL email. -- Dennis Weldy <nojunkmail@ever.com> wrote in article <32nusbR98GA.70@news2.ingr.com>... : Ok, jumping on the content of Chieh's post, if you'll note he merely ASSUMES : the idividual is American, when there are penty of other countries where the : original poster couldve learned English from 1-3 years of age. England, : Ireland, Canada, Australia,.... all sorts of places :) : : Dennis : Gary A. Wiltshire <70523.3077@compuserve.com> wrote in message : <3472e573.3440168@news.albany.net>... : >chiehcheng@iname.com (Chieh Cheng) wrote: : >..... : >>For one thing, your grammer sucks. And learn to capitalize. Isn't : >>ironic when an American who learned English since he/she was born, : >>write English worse than people with other nationalities? : >..... : >I don't normally pick on people for their English errors, particularly : >someone who's learned it as a second language. Since you've seen fit : >to do that, be advised that it is grammAr, not grammEr! The second : >sentence above is (at least) stylistically dubious. The third is : >plainly ungrammatical. Let's lighten up a bit and criticize CONTENT : >of posts -- there is a lot of meat there. : > : > --- Gary Wiltshire : : : ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! 1997-11-19 0:00 ` John Rickard @ 1997-11-21 0:00 ` Dennis Weldy 0 siblings, 0 replies; 105+ messages in thread From: Dennis Weldy @ 1997-11-21 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) Well, I didn't see it. Of course, the whole thread has gotten prety darned silly. I mean, the original post was a JOKE. :-) <shrug> Dennis John Rickard wrote in message <64vdko$88b@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>... >They assumed I was american BECAUSE I mentioned the fact I was in I >beleive the 2nd post I made in my defense. >-- >-- >Remove "spam" from my >email address to send me REAL email. >-- > >Dennis Weldy <nojunkmail@ever.com> wrote in article ><32nusbR98GA.70@news2.ingr.com>... >: Ok, jumping on the content of Chieh's post, if you'll note he >merely ASSUMES >: the idividual is American, when there are penty of other countries >where the >: original poster couldve learned English from 1-3 years of age. >England, >: Ireland, Canada, Australia,.... all sorts of places :) >: >: Dennis >: Gary A. Wiltshire <70523.3077@compuserve.com> wrote in message >: <3472e573.3440168@news.albany.net>... >: >chiehcheng@iname.com (Chieh Cheng) wrote: >: >..... >: >>For one thing, your grammer sucks. And learn to capitalize. Isn't >: >>ironic when an American who learned English since he/she was >born, >: >>write English worse than people with other nationalities? >: >..... >: >I don't normally pick on people for their English errors, >particularly >: >someone who's learned it as a second language. Since you've seen >fit >: >to do that, be advised that it is grammAr, not grammEr! The >second >: >sentence above is (at least) stylistically dubious. The third is >: >plainly ungrammatical. Let's lighten up a bit and criticize >CONTENT >: >of posts -- there is a lot of meat there. >: > >: > --- Gary Wiltshire >: >: >: ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Gary A. Wiltshire 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Dennis Weldy @ 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Chieh Cheng 1997-11-20 0:00 ` Mike Smith 1 sibling, 1 reply; 105+ messages in thread From: Chieh Cheng @ 1997-11-19 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) On Wed, 19 Nov 1997 15:01:11 GMT, 70523.3077@compuserve.com (Gary A. Wiltshire) wrote: >chiehcheng@iname.com (Chieh Cheng) wrote: >..... >>For one thing, your grammer sucks. And learn to capitalize. Isn't >>ironic when an American who learned English since he/she was born, >>write English worse than people with other nationalities? >..... >I don't normally pick on people for their English errors, particularly >someone who's learned it as a second language. Since you've seen fit >to do that, be advised that it is grammAr, not grammEr! The second >sentence above is (at least) stylistically dubious. The third is >plainly ungrammatical. Let's lighten up a bit and criticize CONTENT >of posts -- there is a lot of meat there. > > --- Gary Wiltshire You are absolutely right. I am not very good with English, but I was speaking for other people who learned their second language must better than I did. Otherwise, I would have compared him to myself. And again, you're right. I'll chill out a bit. CC -- http://www.geocities.com/Area51/8145/ Up the mountain, down the slope. Around the tree trunks, past the streams. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Chieh Cheng @ 1997-11-20 0:00 ` Mike Smith 0 siblings, 0 replies; 105+ messages in thread From: Mike Smith @ 1997-11-20 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) Chieh Cheng <chiehcheng@iname.com> wrote in article <3472f84b.408504898@serve.installshield.com>... > On Wed, 19 Nov 1997 15:01:11 GMT, 70523.3077@compuserve.com (Gary A. > > You are absolutely right. I am not very good with English, but I was > speaking for other people who learned their second language must > better than I did. Otherwise, I would have compared him to myself. And > again, you're right. I'll chill out a bit. > This seems like pretty good English to me! (One point off misspelling "much", though. ;-) --Mike Smith ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! 1997-11-18 0:00 ` Chieh Cheng 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Gary A. Wiltshire @ 1997-11-19 0:00 ` John Rickard [not found] ` <01bcf51e$35e2a0c0$0200000a@kld_mcs> 1 sibling, 1 reply; 105+ messages in thread From: John Rickard @ 1997-11-19 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) When I posted that message my grammar was proper. -- -- Remove "spam" from my email address to send me REAL email. -- Chieh Cheng <chiehcheng@iname.com> wrote in article <34720007.344948449@serve.installshield.com>... : For one thing, your grammer sucks. And learn to capitalize. Isn't : ironic when an American who learned English since he/she was born, : write English worse than people with other nationalities? : : On 18 Nov 1997 19:34:58 GMT, "John Rickard" : <saskan@worldnet.att.net.DONTSPAMME> wrote: : : >why should I waste my time RE learning a language I have understood : >and spoke since around 1-3 years of age? : > : >Davide Bionda <bionda@erdw.ethz.ch> wrote in article : ><3471428A.6193@erdw.ethz.ch>... : >: >there are not more chinese speakers than english. : >: >if you have not relized it but the english language it the most : >: >widely used language as a standard. why? cause us americans want : >it : >: >that way ;) : >: : >: Then you should try to learn it ;-) : >: : : CC : -- : http://www.geocities.com/Area51/8145/ : Up the mountain, down the slope. : Around the tree trunks, past the streams. : ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
[parent not found: <01bcf51e$35e2a0c0$0200000a@kld_mcs>]
* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! [not found] ` <01bcf51e$35e2a0c0$0200000a@kld_mcs> @ 1997-11-19 0:00 ` John Rickard 0 siblings, 0 replies; 105+ messages in thread From: John Rickard @ 1997-11-19 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) dont get on my case for throwing stones. i didnt even start this shit. i am getting flamed to death because i missed the fucking - key. Geez. if it is a crime then you all should be executed also. Oh what I am not allowed to estimate my age when i began speaking understandable words? GET OFF MY BACK! I dont critisize any of you for fucking up words in a NG post! like i said in another message, I don't have shit to prove to you! this is a newsgroup not a english class! this is a newsgroup not a resume! GROW UP AND STOP BITCHING AT ME FOR A SIMPLE TYPO. -- -- Remove "spam" from my email address to send me REAL email. -- Mike Smith <kld_msmith@earthlink.nospam.net> wrote in article <01bcf51e$35e2a0c0$0200000a@kld_mcs>... : John Rickard <saskan@spam.worldnet.spam.att.spam.net.spam> wrote in article : <64ursa$jpu@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>... : > When I posted that message my grammar was proper. : > -- : > -- : > Remove "spam" from my : > email address to send me REAL email. : > -- : : Here's the message in question: : : >why should I waste my time Re learning a language : >I have understood and spoke since around 1-3 years : >of age? : : Let's see. "Why" should be capitalized. "RE" is not a word. "RE : learning" is also not a word. "Re-learning", maybe? "I have understood : and spoke since"... maybe you meant "have understood and spoken since"? : "Around 1-3 years" is redundant - and, in your case, maybe a little : optimistic? : : Normally I don't stoop to the level of nitpicking grammar and/or syntax in : Usenet posts, but if you're going to throw stones, you should move out of : that glass house first. : : --Mike Smith : : --Mike Smith : : ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! 1997-11-18 0:00 ` John Rickard 1997-11-18 0:00 ` Mark Wilden 1997-11-18 0:00 ` Chieh Cheng @ 1997-11-18 0:00 ` Billy Chambless 1997-11-18 0:00 ` Jean-Sebastien Payette 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Mike Smith 4 siblings, 0 replies; 105+ messages in thread From: Billy Chambless @ 1997-11-18 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) In article <64sql2$k0@mtinsc04.worldnet.att.net>, "John Rickard" <saskan@worldnet.att.net.DONTSPAMME> writes: |> why should I waste my time RE learning a language I have understood |> and spoke since around 1-3 years of age? You forgot to mention your SAT scores. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! 1997-11-18 0:00 ` John Rickard ` (2 preceding siblings ...) 1997-11-18 0:00 ` Billy Chambless @ 1997-11-18 0:00 ` Jean-Sebastien Payette 1997-11-18 0:00 ` Dennis Weldy ` (3 more replies) 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Mike Smith 4 siblings, 4 replies; 105+ messages in thread From: Jean-Sebastien Payette @ 1997-11-18 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) John Rickard wrote in message <64sql2$k0@mtinsc04.worldnet.att.net>... >why should I waste my time RE learning a language I have understood >and spoke since around 1-3 years of age? I've never learn english and I talk better than you. Now about Pascal and C let me tell you that in some case (strings and file manipulation, most object handling) Pascal is way better and I know both language (unlike you!!) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! 1997-11-18 0:00 ` Jean-Sebastien Payette @ 1997-11-18 0:00 ` Dennis Weldy 1997-11-18 0:00 ` Jean-Sebastien Payette ` (4 more replies) 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Cynthia & Bill ` (2 subsequent siblings) 3 siblings, 5 replies; 105+ messages in thread From: Dennis Weldy @ 1997-11-18 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) It is? Care to offer a bit of proof there? Standard Pascal was, last I looked woefully lacking in file handling. Strings were packed arrays of chars (much like C). Now, perhaps y'mean Object Pascal, from Borland? Yes, that would be better at handling objects "better" than C, since C doesn't directly support the OO paradigm. Of course, if y'try to compare it to C++....then I would disagree (and yes, I do know Object Pascal (BP 7.0)). Dennis Jean-Sebastien Payette wrote in message <64suum$5oo$1@weber.videotron.net>... > >John Rickard wrote in message <64sql2$k0@mtinsc04.worldnet.att.net>... >>why should I waste my time RE learning a language I have understood >>and spoke since around 1-3 years of age? > > >I've never learn english and I talk better than you. >Now about Pascal and C let me tell you that in some case (strings and file >manipulation, most object handling) Pascal is way better and I know both >language (unlike you!!) > > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! 1997-11-18 0:00 ` Dennis Weldy @ 1997-11-18 0:00 ` Jean-Sebastien Payette 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Kaz Kylheku 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Dennis Weldy 1997-11-19 0:00 ` system ` (3 subsequent siblings) 4 siblings, 2 replies; 105+ messages in thread From: Jean-Sebastien Payette @ 1997-11-18 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) Dennis Weldy wrote in message ... >It is? Care to offer a bit of proof there? >Standard Pascal was, last I looked woefully lacking in file handling. >Strings were packed arrays of chars (much like C). > >Now, perhaps y'mean Object Pascal, from Borland? Yes, that would be better >at handling objects "better" than C, since C doesn't directly support the OO >paradigm. Of course, if y'try to compare it to C++....then I would disagree >(and yes, I do know Object Pascal (BP 7.0)). > >Dennis > Ok sorry I was talking about C++, I never really code in pure C. I must agree that I was a little overhelm stating that object pascal was better than C ( oups! C++) but not string manipulation. I hate string manipulation in C++. Damn strdup() that make everything fall appart... and file manipulation is file manipulation, you can't really tell appart any of the two languages because the functions are nearly the same in both.And btw, in pascal, you can have pointer to string (like in C) but they are more easy to handle! ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! 1997-11-18 0:00 ` Jean-Sebastien Payette @ 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Kaz Kylheku 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Dennis Weldy 1 sibling, 0 replies; 105+ messages in thread From: Kaz Kylheku @ 1997-11-19 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) In article <64tnjp$o0k$1@weber.videotron.net>, Jean-Sebastien Payette <jeanspayette@videotron.ca> wrote: > >Dennis Weldy wrote in message ... >>It is? Care to offer a bit of proof there? >>Standard Pascal was, last I looked woefully lacking in file handling. >>Strings were packed arrays of chars (much like C). >> >>Now, perhaps y'mean Object Pascal, from Borland? Yes, that would be better >>at handling objects "better" than C, since C doesn't directly support the >OO >>paradigm. Of course, if y'try to compare it to C++....then I would disagree >>(and yes, I do know Object Pascal (BP 7.0)). >> >>Dennis >> > > >Ok sorry I was talking about C++, I never really code in pure C. >I must agree that I was a little overhelm stating that object pascal was >better than C ( oups! C++) but not string manipulation. I hate string >manipulation in C++. Damn strdup() that make everything fall appart... You are confusing implementations and languages again. The strdup() function is not part of C. It's an extension that is found in some implementations. I believe it has descended from the System V Interface Definition. Nevertheless, it is sometimes useful in a C program to execute an operation that has the semantics of strdup. What do you find wrong with it? You have a string that is in some static or automatic buffer. This string must be maintained for a duration that is longer than the lifetime of the buffer, or because that buffer will be reused for subsequent I/O operations. You have little choice but to copy the string to dynamically allocated storage. I have no clue what you are complaining about. Such an operation might be required in _any_ language which does not hide storage management details from the programmer. You talk as if you lack programming experience. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! 1997-11-18 0:00 ` Jean-Sebastien Payette 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Kaz Kylheku @ 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Dennis Weldy 1 sibling, 0 replies; 105+ messages in thread From: Dennis Weldy @ 1997-11-19 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) Have y'tried using the string class? Y'dont have to use strdup any longer. :-) Give it a shot. :-) #include <string> #include <ostream> main() { std::string Hello, World, HelloWorld ; std::string HW2 ; Hello = "Hello" ; World = "World" ; HelloWorld = Hello + " " + World + "!" ; cout << HelloWorld << endl ; HW2 = HelloWorld ; HelloWorld = "I like the string class" ; cout << HW2 << endl ; cout << HelloWorld << endl ; } Dennis Jean-Sebastien Payette wrote in message <64tnjp$o0k$1@weber.videotron.net>... > >Dennis Weldy wrote in message ... >>It is? Care to offer a bit of proof there? >>Standard Pascal was, last I looked woefully lacking in file handling. >>Strings were packed arrays of chars (much like C). >> >>Now, perhaps y'mean Object Pascal, from Borland? Yes, that would be better >>at handling objects "better" than C, since C doesn't directly support the >OO >>paradigm. Of course, if y'try to compare it to C++....then I would disagree >>(and yes, I do know Object Pascal (BP 7.0)). >> >>Dennis >> > > >Ok sorry I was talking about C++, I never really code in pure C. >I must agree that I was a little overhelm stating that object pascal was >better than C ( oups! C++) but not string manipulation. I hate string >manipulation in C++. Damn strdup() that make everything fall appart... >and file manipulation is file manipulation, you can't really tell appart any >of the two languages because the functions are nearly the same in both.And >btw, in pascal, you can have pointer to string (like in C) but they are more >easy to handle! > > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! 1997-11-18 0:00 ` Dennis Weldy 1997-11-18 0:00 ` Jean-Sebastien Payette @ 1997-11-19 0:00 ` system 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Chuck Adams ` (2 subsequent siblings) 4 siblings, 0 replies; 105+ messages in thread From: system @ 1997-11-19 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) "John Rickard" wrote: >Davide Bionda <bionda@erdw.ethz.ch> wrote: >>"John Rickard" wrote: >why should I waste my time RE learning a language I have understood >and spoke since around 1-3 years of age? >>>there are not more chinese speakers than english. >>>if you have not relized it but the english language it the most >>>widely used language as a standard. why? cause us americans want >>>it that way ;) >>Then you should try to learn it ;-) You know, when I first read this, I thought John was having a bit of fun and was a bit taken aback by the responses he got, then I read his reply to a comment from one of our French-Canadian collegues and I started to understand... ================================================================================ "John Rickard" <saskan@spam.worldnet.spam.att.spam.net.spam> >J-S Payette wrote: >>I've never learn english and I talk better than you. >^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^And you should so you can learn proper >vocabulary skills. Given the construction of the above sentence/phrase I wouldn't be so quick to be critical of others' language abilities. At least you're capitalizing. >>Now about Pascal and C let me tell you that in some case (strings and file >>manipulation, most object handling) Pascal is way better and I know both >>language (unlike you!!) >And how do you know what languages I know? I don't know about languages, but given the amount of formatting I had to do to make this message legible I would say you don't know much about newsreaders. >So if you want a fight about who knows more we can skip the whole >programming aspect and take this a intelectual level and have a >battle of the wits. And I can promise you I will win. <heh> I think that is best left without explicit comment :) <no snip between the above paragraph and the below 7 lines> >- >Damn near any idiot can program. But it takes a Genius to become >successful at it. >- >hardly, I can prove rather easily that I can speak my language better >than you. I mean I have only been speaking it since I have been able >to speak. Please go find a style book and look up continuity and making transitions. >As for talking better than me... Try reading you message and tell me >you don't talk like a 12 year old. Try rereading your messages and understand that: 1) you can't take a joke, 2) your intuitive grammer sucks 3) some people might think your emotional age matches Jean's skills at his 2nd written/spoken language. Chill, Robert Morphis@physics.niu.edu Real Women change tires abuse@uu.net postmaster@uu.net Real Men change diapers security@uu.net ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! 1997-11-18 0:00 ` Dennis Weldy 1997-11-18 0:00 ` Jean-Sebastien Payette 1997-11-19 0:00 ` system @ 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Chuck Adams 1997-11-19 0:00 ` J. W. Rider 1997-11-19 0:00 ` John Rickard 1997-11-24 0:00 ` Richard A. O'Keefe 4 siblings, 1 reply; 105+ messages in thread From: Chuck Adams @ 1997-11-19 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) In article <YSQz$BJ98GA.158@news2.ingr.com>, "Dennis Weldy" <nojunkmail@ever.com> wrote: >It is? Care to offer a bit of proof there? >Standard Pascal was, last I looked woefully lacking in file handling. >Strings were packed arrays of chars (much like C). Incorrect, standard pascal strings have their length encoded in them and are a primitive type. delphi allows both pascal strings and null-terminated c strings (not always interchangeable). ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Chuck Adams @ 1997-11-19 0:00 ` J. W. Rider 1997-11-24 0:00 ` Richard A. O'Keefe 0 siblings, 1 reply; 105+ messages in thread From: J. W. Rider @ 1997-11-19 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) On Wed, 19 Nov 97 17:38:09 GMT, chuck@but_i_dont_like_spam.org (Chuck Adams) wrote: >Incorrect, standard pascal strings have their length encoded in them and are a >primitive type. delphi allows both pascal strings and null-terminated c >strings (not always interchangeable). *Standard* pascal strings are constants only. Borland's Turbo Pascal strings used the prefix length byte. Delphi (v3) handles the TP-style string, the null-terminated c-style string, but uses a reference model version of a "long" string as its default. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! 1997-11-19 0:00 ` J. W. Rider @ 1997-11-24 0:00 ` Richard A. O'Keefe 0 siblings, 0 replies; 105+ messages in thread From: Richard A. O'Keefe @ 1997-11-24 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) [-- Warning: decoded text below may be mangled, UTF-8 assumed --] [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 503 bytes --] jw_rider@usa.net (J. W. Rider) writes: >*Standard* pascal strings are constants only. No. Standard Pascal (ISO 10206) has a string data type, without the pathetic limitation to 255 bytes of some antiques. I wish people would find out what the current state of a language is before they flame it. It's not as though ISO Pascal Extended came out yesterday. -- John �neas Byron O'Keefe; 1921/02/04-1997/09/27; TLG,TLTA,BBTNOTL. Richard A. O'Keefe; RMIT Comp.Sci; http://www.cs.rmit.edu.au/%7Eok ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! 1997-11-18 0:00 ` Dennis Weldy ` (2 preceding siblings ...) 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Chuck Adams @ 1997-11-19 0:00 ` John Rickard 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Davide Bionda 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Jean-Sebastien Payette 1997-11-24 0:00 ` Richard A. O'Keefe 4 siblings, 2 replies; 105+ messages in thread From: John Rickard @ 1997-11-19 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) >I've never learn english and I talk better than you. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^And you should so you can learn proper vocabulary skills. >Now about Pascal and C let me tell you that in some case (strings and file >manipulation, most object handling) Pascal is way better and I know both >language (unlike you!!) And how do you know what languages I know? You don't know the first thing about me other than I read this newsgroup. For your infomation I do not know C and do not intend to learn it. I do know TP Dos, TP Win, QuickBasic, VB3, VB4, and Visual Dialogscript. So if you want a fight about who knows more we can skip the whole programming aspect and take this a intelectual level and have a battle of the wits. And I can promise you I will win. - Damn near any idiot can program. But it takes a Genius to become successful at it. - hardly, I can prove rather easily that I can speak my language better than you. I mean I have only been speaking it since I have been able to speak. As for talking better than me... Try reading you message and tell me you don't talk like a 12 year old. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! 1997-11-19 0:00 ` John Rickard @ 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Davide Bionda 1997-11-19 0:00 ` John Rickard 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Jean-Sebastien Payette 1 sibling, 1 reply; 105+ messages in thread From: Davide Bionda @ 1997-11-19 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) >hardly, I can prove rather easily that I can speak my language better >than you. Right, that's the point: YOUR language, not english. Take care Davide ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Davide Bionda @ 1997-11-19 0:00 ` John Rickard 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Mike Smith 0 siblings, 1 reply; 105+ messages in thread From: John Rickard @ 1997-11-19 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) Yea thats right. MY language is "American" English. not English. -- -- Remove "spam" from my email address to send me REAL email. -- Davide Bionda <bionda@erdw.ethz.ch> wrote in article <347301BC.3AB7@erdw.ethz.ch>... : >hardly, I can prove rather easily that I can speak my language better : >than you. : : Right, that's the point: YOUR language, not english. : : Take care : Davide : ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! 1997-11-19 0:00 ` John Rickard @ 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Mike Smith 0 siblings, 0 replies; 105+ messages in thread From: Mike Smith @ 1997-11-19 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) John Rickard <saskan@spam.worldnet.spam.att.spam.net.spam> wrote in article <64vdi2$88b@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>... > Yea thats right. MY language is "American" English. not English. > -- > -- > Remove "spam" from my > email address to send me REAL email. > -- No. Your language, judging from your posts on this newsgroup, is some degenerate form of English where grammar and syntax have been "dumbed down" so that people such as yourself don't need to feel shame in breaking the "rules", or lack thereof. --Mike Smith ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! 1997-11-19 0:00 ` John Rickard 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Davide Bionda @ 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Jean-Sebastien Payette 1 sibling, 0 replies; 105+ messages in thread From: Jean-Sebastien Payette @ 1997-11-19 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) >I do not know C and do not intend to learn it. I do know TP Dos, TP >Win, QuickBasic, VB3, VB4, and Visual Dialogscript. So if you want a Whoa you know pascal, pascal, basic, basic and basic that's cool! >Damn near any idiot can program. But it takes a Genius to become >successful at it. Yes and it don't take a genius to know 2 languages in different version! Oh yea btw I know TP4, TP5, TP6, TP7, C++, Djgpp, and I even done some programming in pascal on my C64 BUT I DON'T TELL ANYONE ABOUT IT BECAUSE IT'S ONLY 2 LANGUAGES! not 8 ... ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! 1997-11-18 0:00 ` Dennis Weldy ` (3 preceding siblings ...) 1997-11-19 0:00 ` John Rickard @ 1997-11-24 0:00 ` Richard A. O'Keefe 4 siblings, 0 replies; 105+ messages in thread From: Richard A. O'Keefe @ 1997-11-24 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) [-- Warning: decoded text below may be mangled, UTF-8 assumed --] [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 559 bytes --] "Dennis Weldy" <nojunkmail@ever.com> writes: >It is? Care to offer a bit of proof there? >Standard Pascal was, last I looked woefully lacking in file handling. >Strings were packed arrays of chars (much like C). Then you didn't look at the current standard, ISO 10206, also known as ISO Pascal Extended. A programmer who knows only one programming language is like a would-be author who has only read one book. -- John �neas Byron O'Keefe; 1921/02/04-1997/09/27; TLG,TLTA,BBTNOTL. Richard A. O'Keefe; RMIT Comp.Sci; http://www.cs.rmit.edu.au/%7Eok ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! 1997-11-18 0:00 ` Jean-Sebastien Payette 1997-11-18 0:00 ` Dennis Weldy @ 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Cynthia & Bill 1997-11-19 0:00 ` tmt 1997-11-28 0:00 ` Ingemar Ragnemalm 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Kaz Kylheku 1997-11-21 0:00 ` Jerry Sams 3 siblings, 2 replies; 105+ messages in thread From: Cynthia & Bill @ 1997-11-19 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) I won't get into the debate between English, Chinese, or any other natural language. However... I too know both C (and C++) and Pascal. (As well as a lot of other comp langauges.) I prefer C/C++ simply because it is used by the majority (on PC's and Unix boxes.) I also know RPG and COBOL. On mainframes I opt for COBOL. On AS/400's, RPG is my langauge of choice. On PC's and Unix boxes, I use C. (And I'm starting to use Java.) Except for undergraduate work, I have yet to find Pascal the langauge of choice of the majority on any platform. Viva la difference! But I'll (personally) take C over Pascal any day. (BTW, in case you can't tell - I'm a white American. If I were black I might have more empathy for the minority. I'm not, so I don't. :-) (BTW BTW - Jean-Sebastien your English is better than my French will ever be. Congratulations on your bi-lingualality (at least.)) Jean-Sebastien Payette <jeanspayette@videotron.ca> wrote in article <64suum$5oo$1@weber.videotron.net>... > > John Rickard wrote in message <64sql2$k0@mtinsc04.worldnet.att.net>... > >why should I waste my time RE learning a language I have understood > >and spoke since around 1-3 years of age? > > > I've never learn english and I talk better than you. > Now about Pascal and C let me tell you that in some case (strings and file > manipulation, most object handling) Pascal is way better and I know both > language (unlike you!!) > > > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Cynthia & Bill @ 1997-11-19 0:00 ` tmt 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Mark Wilden 1997-11-28 0:00 ` Ingemar Ragnemalm 1 sibling, 1 reply; 105+ messages in thread From: tmt @ 1997-11-19 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) On 19 Nov 1997 00:54:55 GMT, "Cynthia & Bill" <cbt1213@clark.net> wrote: >I won't get into the debate between English, Chinese, or any other natural >language. > >However... >I too know both C (and C++) and Pascal. (As well as a lot of other comp >langauges.) >I prefer C/C++ simply because it is used by the majority (on PC's and Unix >boxes.) >I also know RPG and COBOL. >On mainframes I opt for COBOL. >On AS/400's, RPG is my langauge of choice. >On PC's and Unix boxes, I use C. (And I'm starting to use Java.) > >Except for undergraduate work, I have yet to find Pascal the langauge >of choice of the majority on any platform. Pascal is the prefered language for developers of games. Also it is easier to debug Pascal prorgams than C/C++ programs. Also Pascal is now available with MMX technology. Check it out at www.tmt.com > >Viva la difference! But I'll (personally) take C over Pascal any day. > >(BTW, in case you can't tell - I'm a white American. If I were black >I might have more empathy for the minority. I'm not, so I don't. :-) > >(BTW BTW - Jean-Sebastien your English is better than my French >will ever be. Congratulations on your bi-lingualality (at least.)) > >Jean-Sebastien Payette <jeanspayette@videotron.ca> wrote in article ><64suum$5oo$1@weber.videotron.net>... >> >> John Rickard wrote in message <64sql2$k0@mtinsc04.worldnet.att.net>... >> >why should I waste my time RE learning a language I have understood >> >and spoke since around 1-3 years of age? >> >> >> I've never learn english and I talk better than you. >> Now about Pascal and C let me tell you that in some case (strings and >file >> manipulation, most object handling) Pascal is way better and I know both >> language (unlike you!!) >> >> >> ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! 1997-11-19 0:00 ` tmt @ 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Mark Wilden 0 siblings, 0 replies; 105+ messages in thread From: Mark Wilden @ 1997-11-19 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) tmt@panix.com wrote: > > Pascal is the prefered language for developers of games. As a professional games programmer (currently with Sierra/Dynamix), I can tell you that statement is untrue. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Cynthia & Bill 1997-11-19 0:00 ` tmt @ 1997-11-28 0:00 ` Ingemar Ragnemalm 1997-11-29 0:00 ` Danette & Murray Root ` (2 more replies) 1 sibling, 3 replies; 105+ messages in thread From: Ingemar Ragnemalm @ 1997-11-28 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) My God, what a thread. I thought that title said it all: Don't kick the minority. First, it takes a coward to do so, and second, you may find yourself in a minority one day yourself. English vs chinese is just an example, if you only care about numbers. Personally I love being in minorities. It is more fun, as long as they don't get extinct. Wouldn't it be boring if all people in the world spoke american english, dressed in jeans, ate hamburgers, drank Coke, programmed in C++ on Intel PC's with Windows, sang country&western, ... (etc, etc) Cynthia & Bill wrote: > Viva la difference! That's the spirit! > But I'll (personally) take C over Pascal any day. You have made a choice, and you know it is your personal choice. Too many don't choose, they just follow the majority without thinking, and never care to learn more than one thing. All I ask more is that you also respect that others choose different. And perhaps recognize that the other choices actually have some advantages over your choice. And now LET'S STOP FUSSING ABOUT THIS! Cut down the number of newsgroups in every follow-up please! /Ingemar ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! 1997-11-28 0:00 ` Ingemar Ragnemalm @ 1997-11-29 0:00 ` Danette & Murray Root 1997-12-02 0:00 ` Morgan Palaeo Associates 1997-12-03 0:00 ` Matt Corey 2 siblings, 0 replies; 105+ messages in thread From: Danette & Murray Root @ 1997-11-29 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) On Fri, 28 Nov 1997 23:51:48 +0000, Ingemar Ragnemalm <ingemar@lysator.liu.se> wrote in comp.lang.c: => My God, what a thread. I thought that title said it all: => => Don't kick the minority. First, it takes a coward to do so, => and second, you may find yourself in a minority one day yourself. => English vs chinese is just an example, if you only care about => numbers. => => Personally I love being in minorities. It is more fun, as long as => they don't get extinct. Wouldn't it be boring if all people in the => world spoke american english, dressed in jeans, ate hamburgers, => drank Coke, programmed in C++ on Intel PC's with Windows, sang => country&western, ... (etc, etc) => That's not boring - that's hell. I hate Coke and country&western, Hamburgers are only good when I cook them. C++ is not as much fun as C and assembler. Windows is a premature birth (3.x looked more like a still-born, but it was revived), if it grows up it might be useful. /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ Be Different - THINK! /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ http://mroot.home.mindspring.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! 1997-11-28 0:00 ` Ingemar Ragnemalm 1997-11-29 0:00 ` Danette & Murray Root @ 1997-12-02 0:00 ` Morgan Palaeo Associates 1997-12-05 0:00 ` R.E.Donais 1997-12-03 0:00 ` Matt Corey 2 siblings, 1 reply; 105+ messages in thread From: Morgan Palaeo Associates @ 1997-12-02 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) Ingemar Ragnemalm <ingemar@lysator.liu.se> wrote: ^ | Personally I love being in minorities. It is more fun, as long as | they don't get extinct. Wouldn't it be boring if all people in the | world spoke american english, dressed in jeans, ate hamburgers, | drank Coke, programmed in C++ on Intel PC's with Windows, sang | country&western, ... (etc, etc) v AOL! (On some global internet communities, 'AOL' is a code term for 'Me too!' or 'I agree!'. It's not in terribly wide use, however, hence this explanatory note.) ---------------------------------------------- Morgan Palaeo Associates Palynological/Petroleum Geological Consultants Postal Address: Box 161, Maitland, South Australia 5573 Deliveries: 1 Shannon Tce, Maitland, South Australia 5573 Phone: (08) 8832 2795 Fax: (08) 8832 2798 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! 1997-12-02 0:00 ` Morgan Palaeo Associates @ 1997-12-05 0:00 ` R.E.Donais 0 siblings, 0 replies; 105+ messages in thread From: R.E.Donais @ 1997-12-05 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) morganpalaeo@peg.apc.org (Morgan Palaeo Associates) wrote: >AOL! > >(On some global internet communities, 'AOL' is a code term for >'Me too!' or 'I agree!'. It's not in terribly wide use, however, >hence this explanatory note.) > Its original meaning is America-on-line --- aol.com The meaning you suggest originates with the numerous AOL members who contribute little to a discussion and generally do nothing more than quote articles and append -- 'Me too!' or 'I agree!'. There's another meaning associated with this. Kind of an extension of the above explanation and a play on the first two letters. Can you guess what it is? I recommend you distance yourself from the acronym altogether. ;-) ...red -- Support the anti-Spam amendment Join at http://www.cauce.org/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! 1997-11-28 0:00 ` Ingemar Ragnemalm 1997-11-29 0:00 ` Danette & Murray Root 1997-12-02 0:00 ` Morgan Palaeo Associates @ 1997-12-03 0:00 ` Matt Corey 2 siblings, 0 replies; 105+ messages in thread From: Matt Corey @ 1997-12-03 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ingemar Ingemar Ragnemalm wrote: <snip> > C++ on Intel PC's with Windows, sang country&western, > | > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Them's fightin' words!! ;-) Yes, this is another pointless post to a pointless thread. Matt "Capitalist Redneck" Corey ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! 1997-11-18 0:00 ` Jean-Sebastien Payette 1997-11-18 0:00 ` Dennis Weldy 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Cynthia & Bill @ 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Kaz Kylheku 1997-11-21 0:00 ` Jerry Sams 3 siblings, 0 replies; 105+ messages in thread From: Kaz Kylheku @ 1997-11-19 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) In article <64suum$5oo$1@weber.videotron.net>, Jean-Sebastien Payette <jeanspayette@videotron.ca> wrote: > >John Rickard wrote in message <64sql2$k0@mtinsc04.worldnet.att.net>... >>why should I waste my time RE learning a language I have understood >>and spoke since around 1-3 years of age? > > >I've never learn english and I talk better than you. >Now about Pascal and C let me tell you that in some case (strings and file >manipulation, most object handling) Pascal is way better and I know both >language (unlike you!!) Standard Pascal is better at file handling than standard C? Hmm... In what way, pray tell? Have the I/O facilities of _standard_ Pascal improved since Brian Kernighan wrote that paper entitled ``Why Pascal is Not My Favorite Programming Language?'' It's not sufficient for some particular _implementation_ of Pascal to provide better I/O facilities, if they are not part of the generally accepted language definition. As far as strings go, Pascal's representation of strings as character arrays is not all too different from the way it's done in C. I just remember it as being less flexible. The last time I used Pascal, it was next to impossible to handle dynamic strings. If you are going to use a Pascal-like language, at least go to Modula 2 (or even 3). ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! 1997-11-18 0:00 ` Jean-Sebastien Payette ` (2 preceding siblings ...) 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Kaz Kylheku @ 1997-11-21 0:00 ` Jerry Sams 3 siblings, 0 replies; 105+ messages in thread From: Jerry Sams @ 1997-11-21 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) Jean-Sebastien Payette wrote in message <64suum$5oo$1@weber.videotron.net>... > >John Rickard wrote in message <64sql2$k0@mtinsc04.worldnet.att.net>... >>why should I waste my time RE learning a language I have understood >>and spoke since around 1-3 years of age? > > >I've never learn english and I talk better than you. >Now about Pascal and C let me tell you that in some case (strings and file >manipulation, most object handling) Pascal is way better and I know both >language (unlike you!!) That's "I've never 'learned' english." It's called the past tense *perfect* when you spell it right; otherwise just the past tense. Jerry ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! 1997-11-18 0:00 ` John Rickard ` (3 preceding siblings ...) 1997-11-18 0:00 ` Jean-Sebastien Payette @ 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Mike Smith 4 siblings, 0 replies; 105+ messages in thread From: Mike Smith @ 1997-11-19 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) John Rickard <saskan@worldnet.att.net.DONTSPAMME> wrote in article <64sql2$k0@mtinsc04.worldnet.att.net>... > why should I waste my time RE learning a language I have understood > and spoke since around 1-3 years of age? > -- > -- Re-read your last post. Hopefully, the reason will become obvious. --Mike Smith ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
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* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! [not found] ` <64sql2$k0@ <YSQz$BJ98GA.158@news2.ingr.com> @ 1997-11-19 0:00 ` John R. Reagan 0 siblings, 0 replies; 105+ messages in thread From: John R. Reagan @ 1997-11-19 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) In article <YSQz$BJ98GA.158@news2.ingr.com>, "Dennis Weldy" <nojunkmail@ever.com> writes... >Standard Pascal was, last I looked woefully lacking in file handling. >Strings were packed arrays of chars (much like C). > >Now, perhaps y'mean Object Pascal, from Borland? Yes, that would be better >at handling objects "better" than C, since C doesn't directly support the OO >paradigm. Of course, if y'try to compare it to C++....then I would disagree >(and yes, I do know Object Pascal (BP 7.0)). I guess you haven't looked since 1989 then. Extended Pascal added a real STRING type and many file handling routines. The committee also authored a object-oriented extensions in Pascal that looks more like Java or Object Pascal on the Apple than TP or C++. -- John Reagan DEC Pascal Project Leader Application Compilers and Environments Digital Equipment Corporation reagan@hiyall.enet.dec.com Disclaimer: The opinions and statements expressed by me are not necessarily those of Digital Equipment Corporation. -- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
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* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! [not found] ` <64sql2$k0@ <3473407e.17757163@lhc.nlm.nih.gov> @ 1997-11-20 0:00 ` John R. Reagan 0 siblings, 0 replies; 105+ messages in thread From: John R. Reagan @ 1997-11-20 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) In article <3473407e.17757163@lhc.nlm.nih.gov>, jw_rider@usa.net (J. W. Rider) writes... >*Standard* pascal strings are constants only. > >Borland's Turbo Pascal strings used the prefix length byte. Becareful of what you speak... The Extended Pascal standard from 1989 added a variable-length STRING type in addition to the traditional PACKED ARRAY OF CHAR fixed-string type. Also note that the standard doesn't provide an implementation. A compiler is free to choose whatever implementation to provide the semantic behavior. It could choose a prefix length byte, a prefix length word, a trailing null, a quija board, etc. -- John Reagan DEC Pascal Project Leader Application Compilers and Environments Digital Equipment Corporation reagan@hiyall.enet.dec.com Disclaimer: The opinions and statements expressed by me are not necessarily those of Digital Equipment Corporation. -- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! [not found] ` <64qllr$c45@mtinsc03.worldnet.att.net> 1997-11-18 0:00 ` English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language " Davide Bionda @ 1997-11-18 0:00 ` JCore 1997-11-21 0:00 ` Jerry Sams [not found] ` <01bcf51b$abcea520$0200000a@kld_mcs> [not found] ` <34745A75.D22E132D@zeelandnet.nl> 2 siblings, 2 replies; 105+ messages in thread From: JCore @ 1997-11-18 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) On 17 Nov 1997 23:57:47 GMT, "John Rickard" <saskan@worldnet.att.net.DONTSPAMME> wrote: >there are not more chinese speakers than english. >if you have not relized it but the english language it the most >widely used language as a standard. why? cause us americans want it >that way ;) Um, actually Chinese is the most widely spoken language in the world. Sorry to have to be the American to break it to you. Oh yeh, and I agree with the original article too. -JCore ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! 1997-11-18 0:00 ` JCore @ 1997-11-21 0:00 ` Jerry Sams [not found] ` <01bcf51b$abcea520$0200000a@kld_mcs> 1 sibling, 0 replies; 105+ messages in thread From: Jerry Sams @ 1997-11-21 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) JCore wrote in message <34710873.4313003@news.linkonline.net>... >On 17 Nov 1997 23:57:47 GMT, "John Rickard" ><saskan@worldnet.att.net.DONTSPAMME> wrote: > >>there are not more chinese speakers than english. >>if you have not relized it but the english language it the most >>widely used language as a standard. why? cause us americans want it >>that way ;) > >Um, actually Chinese is the most widely spoken language in the world. %^$&&*)&^%**(^&**@ (Chinese for "say whhaaaaaaatt?) Jerry ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
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* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! [not found] ` <01bcf51b$abcea520$0200000a@kld_mcs> @ 1997-11-19 0:00 ` system [not found] ` <01bcf5c3$afbda340$0200000a@kld_mcs> 1997-11-19 0:00 ` John Rickard ` (4 subsequent siblings) 5 siblings, 1 reply; 105+ messages in thread From: system @ 1997-11-19 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) "Mike Smith" <kld_msmith@earthlink.nospam.net> writes: >JCore <jcorez@juno.com> wrote in article ><34710873.4313003@news.linkonline.net>... >> On 17 Nov 1997 23:57:47 GMT, "John Rickard" >> <saskan@worldnet.att.net.DONTSPAMME> wrote: >> >> >there are not more chinese speakers than english. >> >if you have not relized it but the english language it the most >> >widely used language as a standard. why? cause us americans want it >> >that way ;) >> >> Um, actually Chinese is the most widely spoken language in the world. >> Sorry to have to be the American to break it to you. Oh yeh, and I >> agree with the original article too. > >Define "widely". There certainly are an awful lot of Chinese-speakers in >the world. But English is spoken in countries on every continent of the >globe (except South America? - I mean national tongue, not that one or more >people speak it). >One hears English-language songs on >European radio all the time, but one almost never hears >non-English-language songs on American radio (I can't speak for >Commonwealth nations). I think that speaks more to our insularity than anything else. >I don't know about the exact numbers of English vs. >Chinese speakers (don't forget India - not exactly a small country), My info is that 4% of Indians speak and read English. How many speak but don't read it? dunno. >Is that because "we" (yes I'm American as if that weren't obvious) want it >that way? Maybe. I think it is pretty clearly yes. We can debate whether this is "ugly" and/or "understandable" some other time. >But I think the UK deserves at least some of the credit/blame. ;-) The U.K. mostly takes credit for making it one of the languages of choice in its former colonies. Morphis@physics.niu.edu Real Women change tires abuse@uu.net postmaster@uu.net Real Men change diapers security@uu.net ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
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* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! [not found] ` <01bcf5c3$afbda340$0200000a@kld_mcs> @ 1997-11-20 0:00 ` Craig Franck 0 siblings, 0 replies; 105+ messages in thread From: Craig Franck @ 1997-11-20 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) "Mike Smith" <kld_msmith@earthlink.nospam.net> wrote: >system@niuhep.physics.niu.edu wrote in article ><64vpua$ni7@corn.cso.niu.edu>... >> >One hears English-language songs on >> >European radio all the time, but one almost never hears >> >non-English-language songs on American radio (I can't speak for >> >Commonwealth nations). >> >> I think that speaks more to our insularity than anything else. > >Maybe. For myself, I can say I don't like European music very much because >of the musical content, not the language. Looking at the international charts in Billboard, I can recognize 8 out of the top 10 songs in some countries. September 12 Top 10 in Sweden is topped by "Barbie Slut Girl" and then Puff Daddy, Coolio, the "Men in Black" song, then finally two artists that seem local, then back to that Mr. Biggy fellow, Mariah Carrey, Baby Face & Stevie Wonder, and The Verve (apparently not the same as The Verve Pipe, because the label is different). Oasis, Aqua, John Fogerty (I guess swamp funk if popular there), Spice Girls, No Doubt, and Prodigy all have Top 10 albums in Sweden. >Europeans (except the British, >who invented it, and a couple of flukes from Germany, like the Scorpions) >don't know how to ROCK! I mean, what was the last really good Swiss (or >Czech, or Danish, etc.) grunge band? ;-) There will always be ABBA (sold more records than the Beatles, you know). :-) wowowowoWaterloo... -- Craig clfranck@worldnet.att.net Manchester, NH I try to take one day at a time, but sometimes several days attack me at once. -- Ashleigh Brilliant ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! [not found] ` <01bcf51b$abcea520$0200000a@kld_mcs> 1997-11-19 0:00 ` system @ 1997-11-19 0:00 ` John Rickard 1997-11-20 0:00 ` Christer Gustavsson 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Michael Rubenstein ` (3 subsequent siblings) 5 siblings, 1 reply; 105+ messages in thread From: John Rickard @ 1997-11-19 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) did someone forget that just about every inch of the internet you are on now is in english. NOTE: i did not say all. i said just about every inch. -- -- Remove "spam" from my email address to send me REAL email. -- Mike Smith <kld_msmith@earthlink.nospam.net> wrote in article <01bcf51b$abcea520$0200000a@kld_mcs>... : JCore <jcorez@juno.com> wrote in article : <34710873.4313003@news.linkonline.net>... : > On 17 Nov 1997 23:57:47 GMT, "John Rickard" : > <saskan@worldnet.att.net.DONTSPAMME> wrote: : > : > >there are not more chinese speakers than english. : > >if you have not relized it but the english language it the most : > >widely used language as a standard. why? cause us americans want it : > >that way ;) : > : > Um, actually Chinese is the most widely spoken language in the world. : > Sorry to have to be the American to break it to you. Oh yeh, and I : > agree with the original article too. : : Define "widely". There certainly are an awful lot of Chinese-speakers in : the world. But English is spoken in countries on every continent of the : globe (except South America? - I mean national tongue, not that one or more : people speak it). It seems certain that, among people who speak at least : two languages, more people speak English as a second language than Chinese. : English is the language of choice for international organizations and for : other international standards, e.g. English is the chosen language for : pilots, air traffic controllers, etc. One hears English-language songs on : European radio all the time, but one almost never hears : non-English-language songs on American radio (I can't speak for : Commonwealth nations). I don't know about the exact numbers of English vs. : Chinese speakers (don't forget India - not exactly a small country), but : certainly English is more "widely" spoken than Chinese. : : Is that because "we" (yes I'm American as if that weren't obvious) want it : that way? Maybe. But I think the UK deserves at least some of the : credit/blame. ;-) : : --Mike Smith : ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! 1997-11-19 0:00 ` John Rickard @ 1997-11-20 0:00 ` Christer Gustavsson 0 siblings, 0 replies; 105+ messages in thread From: Christer Gustavsson @ 1997-11-20 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) "John Rickard" <saskan@spam.worldnet.spam.att.spam.net.spam> writes: > did someone forget that just about every inch of the internet you are > on now is in english. > NOTE: i did not say all. i said just about every inch. Ok, so on some of the centimeters there are other languages, right? :-) /Christer ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! [not found] ` <01bcf51b$abcea520$0200000a@kld_mcs> 1997-11-19 0:00 ` system 1997-11-19 0:00 ` John Rickard @ 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Michael Rubenstein 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Mark Wilden ` (2 more replies) 1997-11-22 0:00 ` Ncp268 ` (2 subsequent siblings) 5 siblings, 3 replies; 105+ messages in thread From: Michael Rubenstein @ 1997-11-19 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) On 19 Nov 1997 18:48:10 GMT, "Mike Smith" <kld_msmith@earthlink.nospam.net> wrote: >JCore <jcorez@juno.com> wrote in article ><34710873.4313003@news.linkonline.net>... >> On 17 Nov 1997 23:57:47 GMT, "John Rickard" >> <saskan@worldnet.att.net.DONTSPAMME> wrote: >> >> >there are not more chinese speakers than english. >> >if you have not relized it but the english language it the most >> >widely used language as a standard. why? cause us americans want it >> >that way ;) >> >> Um, actually Chinese is the most widely spoken language in the world. >> Sorry to have to be the American to break it to you. Oh yeh, and I >> agree with the original article too. > >Define "widely". There certainly are an awful lot of Chinese-speakers in >the world. But English is spoken in countries on every continent of the >globe (except South America? - I mean national tongue, not that one or more >people speak it). It seems certain that, among people who speak at least >two languages, more people speak English as a second language than Chinese. > English is the language of choice for international organizations and for >other international standards, e.g. English is the chosen language for >pilots, air traffic controllers, etc. One hears English-language songs on >European radio all the time, but one almost never hears >non-English-language songs on American radio (I can't speak for >Commonwealth nations). I don't know about the exact numbers of English vs. >Chinese speakers (don't forget India - not exactly a small country), but >certainly English is more "widely" spoken than Chinese. > >Is that because "we" (yes I'm American as if that weren't obvious) want it >that way? Maybe. But I think the UK deserves at least some of the >credit/blame. ;-) According to the World Almanac there are almost twice as many speakers of Mandarin (999 million) as of English (487 million). Michael M Rubenstein ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Michael Rubenstein @ 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Mark Wilden 1997-11-20 0:00 ` Michael Rubenstein 1997-11-25 0:00 ` Bob Bakh [not found] ` <01bcf5c4$5916e8c0$0200000a@kld_mcs> 1997-11-20 0:00 ` Boyd Roberts 2 siblings, 2 replies; 105+ messages in thread From: Mark Wilden @ 1997-11-19 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) Michael Rubenstein wrote: > > According to the World Almanac there are almost twice as many speakers > of Mandarin (999 million) as of English (487 million). What year was that? Those figures seem suspect. They mean that over 4.5 billion people speak neither language. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Mark Wilden @ 1997-11-20 0:00 ` Michael Rubenstein 1997-11-20 0:00 ` Peter Seebach 1997-11-25 0:00 ` Bob Bakh 1 sibling, 1 reply; 105+ messages in thread From: Michael Rubenstein @ 1997-11-20 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) On Wed, 19 Nov 1997 16:04:15 -0800, Mark Wilden <Mark@mWilden.com> wrote: >Michael Rubenstein wrote: >> >> According to the World Almanac there are almost twice as many speakers >> of Mandarin (999 million) as of English (487 million). > >What year was that? Those figures seem suspect. They mean that over 4.5 >billion people speak neither language. It's from the 1997 Almanac (from Microsoft Bookshelf) and the figures are for mid 1996. There are also 457 million speakers of Hindi and 401 million speakers of Spanish. These figures include non-native speaker. Also, of course, I meant "over", not "almost." Michael M Rubenstein ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! 1997-11-20 0:00 ` Michael Rubenstein @ 1997-11-20 0:00 ` Peter Seebach 1997-11-20 0:00 ` Joseph Santaniello 1997-11-20 0:00 ` Boyd Roberts 0 siblings, 2 replies; 105+ messages in thread From: Peter Seebach @ 1997-11-20 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) In article <3475921d.208410468@nntp.ix.netcom.com>, Michael Rubenstein <miker3@ix.netcom.com> wrote: >On Wed, 19 Nov 1997 16:04:15 -0800, Mark Wilden <Mark@mWilden.com> >>> According to the World Almanac there are almost twice as many speakers >>> of Mandarin (999 million) as of English (487 million). >It's from the 1997 Almanac (from Microsoft Bookshelf) and the figures >are for mid 1996. >These figures include non-native speaker. I have a hard time believing this one. Just about all of the U.S., most of Canada, all of the U.K., a third of Europe, and a large portion of Asia, speak English, at least as a second language. (The 'third of Europe' is from a recent article in The Economist.) Furthermore, I have a very hard time buying the number given for Mandarin; the Chinese I met living at a university *mostly* spoke Mandarin, but I'd say no more than half of the people we met who weren't studens or teachers did... Also, you have to look at the rate of growth; English has become a very popular technical and trade language, and (at least in the EU), younger people are much more likely to have a second language, and more than half of them learn English. English has a wide variety of consonant clusters, and happily adopts words from nearly any other language; this has been a great strength for it. If this gets any more off topic, I shall expect to be clobbered by the Narn Bat Squad. -s -- seebs@plethora.net -- I am not speaking for my employer. Copyright '97 All rights reserved. This was not sent by my cat. C and Unix wizard - send mail for help, or send money for a consultation. Visit my new ISP <URL:http://www.plethora.net/> --- More Net, Less Spam! Plethora . Net ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! 1997-11-20 0:00 ` Peter Seebach @ 1997-11-20 0:00 ` Joseph Santaniello [not found] ` <34746A05.49AA@mWilden.com> 1997-11-20 0:00 ` Boyd Roberts 1 sibling, 1 reply; 105+ messages in thread From: Joseph Santaniello @ 1997-11-20 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) In article <650e6p$ahv$1@darla.visi.com>, seebs@plethora.net (Peter Seebach) wrote: >>>> of Mandarin (999 million) as of English (487 million). > >>It's from the 1997 Almanac (from Microsoft Bookshelf) and the figures >>are for mid 1996. > >>These figures include non-native speaker. > >I have a hard time believing this one. Just about all of the U.S., >most of Canada, all of the U.K., a third of Europe, and a large portion >of Asia, speak English, at least as a second language. 487 sounds about right if you figure the poulations for the areas you mention are "about" as follows: US 270M, Canada 29M, UK 58M, 1/3 Europe 150M, and half of Japan (optimistic) 70M, Australia 15M (?). Plus everybody else in Asia who maybe speaks English still falls way below 999M for Mandarin. Joe ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
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* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! [not found] ` <34746A05.49AA@mWilden.com> @ 1997-11-20 0:00 ` system 1997-11-26 0:00 ` Frans E. Boone 0 siblings, 1 reply; 105+ messages in thread From: system @ 1997-11-20 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) Mark Wilden <Mark@mWilden.com> writes: >Joseph Santaniello wrote: >> 487 sounds about right if you figure the poulations for the areas you >> mention are "about" as follows: US 270M, Canada 29M, UK 58M, 1/3 Europe >> 150M, and half of Japan (optimistic) 70M, Australia 15M (?). Plus everybody >> else in Asia who maybe speaks English still falls way below 999M for >> Mandarin. >Although you left out Africa, I don't really have a problem with the >fact that more people speak Mandarin than English. What I can't fathom >is that the vast majority of the world (over 4.5 billion people) speak >_neither_. Don't tell me you swallowed that bilge about the global village?!? ;-) Why don't most Americans (will somebody please come up with an accurate and easy to use word denoting citizens of the U.S.A.) learn more than one language? They don't need too! Most Africans and South Americans and a very large chunk of Asians have no use for either Mandarin or English. They speak their native language plus one other tribal language and/or perhaps the national language if it differs from their native tongue. Peace, Robert Morphis@physics.niu.edu Real Women change tires abuse@uu.net postmaster@uu.net Real Men change diapers security@uu.net ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! 1997-11-20 0:00 ` system @ 1997-11-26 0:00 ` Frans E. Boone 1997-11-26 0:00 ` CERVANTES OJEDA, Jorge 1997-11-26 0:00 ` system 0 siblings, 2 replies; 105+ messages in thread From: Frans E. Boone @ 1997-11-26 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) system@niuhep.physics.niu.edu wrote: > Why don't most Americans (will somebody please come up with an accurate > and easy to use word denoting citizens of the U.S.A.) learn more than > one language? They don't need too! No one needs to learn a second language. It is a matter of courtesy toadapt yourself to your surroundings. Most people however have trouble enough learning their own language. -- Frans Boone ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! 1997-11-26 0:00 ` Frans E. Boone @ 1997-11-26 0:00 ` CERVANTES OJEDA, Jorge 1997-11-26 0:00 ` Kevin Edwards 1997-11-26 0:00 ` Peter Seebach 1997-11-26 0:00 ` system 1 sibling, 2 replies; 105+ messages in thread From: CERVANTES OJEDA, Jorge @ 1997-11-26 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) Frans E. Boone wrote: > > system@niuhep.physics.niu.edu wrote: > > > Why don't most Americans (will somebody please come up with an accurate > > and easy to use word denoting citizens of the U.S.A.) learn more than > > one language? They don't need too! > > No one needs to learn a second language. It is a matter of courtesy toadapt > yourself to your surroundings. It is NOT only courtesy. When you learn a second language you get also an incredible ammount of CULTURE. :^) As for programming languages, The more languages you learn the more adaptable you are for any change in your job. It is not only the knowledge of the languages itselves but the ability to understand other people's ideas and improve them with your's. > Most people however have trouble enough learning their own language. Yes but you can allways learn in parallel YOUR language and another one. 8^l Jorge Cervantes (native Spanish speaker) (learning French, German and, of course, English) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! 1997-11-26 0:00 ` CERVANTES OJEDA, Jorge @ 1997-11-26 0:00 ` Kevin Edwards 1997-11-26 0:00 ` Peter Seebach 1 sibling, 0 replies; 105+ messages in thread From: Kevin Edwards @ 1997-11-26 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) CERVANTES OJEDA, Jorge wrote: > > Frans E. Boone wrote: > > > > system@niuhep.physics.niu.edu wrote: > > > > > Why don't most Americans (will somebody please come up with an accurate > > > and easy to use word denoting citizens of the U.S.A.) learn more than > > > one language? They don't need too! > > > > No one needs to learn a second language. It is a matter of courtesy toadapt > > yourself to your surroundings. > > It is NOT only courtesy. When you learn a second language you get also an > incredible ammount of CULTURE. :^) > Consider a country like Luxembourg where the mother tongue (Letzebergish) is spoken by about 250,000 people world wide. Conducting business (professional or private) almost certainly involves daily usage of German, French and English. Being multi-lingual there is certainly not just courtesy , nor just culture, but real necessity. As for communicating with a broad range of computer professionals, is it really that much different? The paradigms familiar to a COBOL programmer are indeed different from those familiar to a C++ programmer. Do I as a C++ programmer simply scowl and proclaim technical superiority over my COBOL cohorts? Considering that 70% of the information age's data today is housed on IBM mainframes driven primarily by COBOL programming, that is probably not a particularly reasonable point of view, but I could choose to be closed minded about it. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! 1997-11-26 0:00 ` CERVANTES OJEDA, Jorge 1997-11-26 0:00 ` Kevin Edwards @ 1997-11-26 0:00 ` Peter Seebach 1 sibling, 0 replies; 105+ messages in thread From: Peter Seebach @ 1997-11-26 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) In article <65h9r4$knu@btmpjg.god.bel.alcatel.be>, CERVANTES OJEDA, Jorge <"JCER@BTMV74"@btma74.se.bel.alcatel.be> wrote: > It is NOT only courtesy. When you learn a second language you get also an >incredible ammount of CULTURE. :^) Indeed! Most natural languages have assumptions about the nature of the universe embedded in them, and different ones can express different concepts more easily. > As for programming languages, The more languages you learn the more adaptable >you are for any change in your job. It is not only the knowledge of the >languages itselves but the ability to understand other people's ideas and >improve them with your's. Indeed! I didn't really make good use of switch in C until I had gotten used to using 'case' in sh. -s -- seebs@plethora.net -- I am not speaking for my employer. Copyright '97 All rights reserved. This was not sent by my cat. C and Unix wizard - send mail for help, or send money for a consultation. Visit my new ISP <URL:http://www.plethora.net/> --- More Net, Less Spam! Plethora . Net ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! 1997-11-26 0:00 ` Frans E. Boone 1997-11-26 0:00 ` CERVANTES OJEDA, Jorge @ 1997-11-26 0:00 ` system 1997-11-27 0:00 ` Knochenhauer Bernd 1 sibling, 1 reply; 105+ messages in thread From: system @ 1997-11-26 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) "Frans E. Boone" <fboone@lucent.com> writes: >system@niuhep.physics.niu.edu wrote: >> Why don't most Americans (will somebody please come up with an accurate >> and easy to use word denoting citizens of the U.S.A.) learn more than >> one language? They don't need too! >No one needs to learn a second language. When you live within one day's travel of 2-5 different countries where they speak different languages it is considered useful to learn more than one language. >Most people however have trouble enough learning their own language. Most (all?) college-prep students in Germany know 3 languages by the time they graduate from H.S.. Scandinavia is much the same. I know little about other countries but I would be surprized if it were greatly different. Morphis@physics.niu.edu Real Women change tires abuse@uu.net postmaster@uu.net Real Men change diapers security@uu.net ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! 1997-11-26 0:00 ` system @ 1997-11-27 0:00 ` Knochenhauer Bernd 0 siblings, 0 replies; 105+ messages in thread From: Knochenhauer Bernd @ 1997-11-27 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) In article <65hm4g$3na@corn.cso.niu.edu>, system@niuhep.physics.niu.edu wrote: > >When you live within one day's travel of 2-5 different countries where >they speak different languages it is considered useful to learn more >than one language. Not only then. It widens your view of the world around you. >Most (all?) college-prep students in Germany know 3 languages by the time >they graduate from H.S.. In theory: yes. Personally however, I almost successfully managed to forget all the french I had to learn in school :) -- Bernd Knochenhauer Dr.Materna GmbH Dortmund -- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! 1997-11-20 0:00 ` Peter Seebach 1997-11-20 0:00 ` Joseph Santaniello @ 1997-11-20 0:00 ` Boyd Roberts 1997-11-20 0:00 ` Larry Elmore 1 sibling, 1 reply; 105+ messages in thread From: Boyd Roberts @ 1997-11-20 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) [-- Warning: decoded text below may be mangled, UTF-8 assumed --] [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 565 bytes --] In article <650e6p$ahv$1@darla.visi.com>, seebs@plethora.net (Peter Seebach) writes: > >English has a wide variety of consonant clusters, and happily adopts >words from nearly any other language; this has been a great strength >for it. > That is hardly an argument. If you try hard enough you can do it in any language. Take French: CD == c�d� mail == m�l Yes, they are serious. -- Boyd Roberts <boyd@france3.fr> UTM N 31 447109 5411310 En fin, bon, bref, si tu veux, point � la ligne, voil� quoi -- Jacques SPAT: fred@ultramax.net ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! 1997-11-20 0:00 ` Boyd Roberts @ 1997-11-20 0:00 ` Larry Elmore 0 siblings, 0 replies; 105+ messages in thread From: Larry Elmore @ 1997-11-20 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) [-- Warning: decoded text below may be mangled, UTF-8 assumed --] [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 954 bytes --] Boyd Roberts wrote in message <651fpg$ngu$2@route1.mdrf.france3.fr>... >In article <650e6p$ahv$1@darla.visi.com>, seebs@plethora.net (Peter Seebach) writes: >> >>English has a wide variety of consonant clusters, and happily adopts >>words from nearly any other language; this has been a great strength >>for it. >> >That is hardly an argument. If you try hard enough you can do it >in any language. Take French: > > CD == c�d� > mail == m�l The key words being "If you try hard enough..." That's a _long_ ways from happily adopting anything that comes along that makes sense! Isn't it France that's fighting a losing campaign to preserve the "purity" of the French language from the "pollution" of foreign words and phrases? Kind of ironic considering French is essentially a bastardization of Latin with some other stuff mixed in... >Yes, they are serious. That's what makes it all the more comical to the rest of us... Larry ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Mark Wilden 1997-11-20 0:00 ` Michael Rubenstein @ 1997-11-25 0:00 ` Bob Bakh 1997-11-26 0:00 ` macpar 1 sibling, 1 reply; 105+ messages in thread From: Bob Bakh @ 1997-11-25 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) I personally prefer speaking Esperanto ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! 1997-11-25 0:00 ` Bob Bakh @ 1997-11-26 0:00 ` macpar 0 siblings, 0 replies; 105+ messages in thread From: macpar @ 1997-11-26 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) In article <65f14j$68$1@cronkite.sp.trw.com>, "Bob Bakh" <rbakh@mailsrv1.trw.com> wrote: > > I personally prefer speaking Esperanto C^u vere? Se vi preferas paroli esperante, kiel vi neniam efektive faris tion, anstatau nur prediki pri g^i al homoj, kiuj supozeble nek scipovas g^in nek ec^ iomete interesig^as pri g^i? -------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====----------------------- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
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* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! [not found] ` <MPG.ede6533db8ead2b9896b3@news.mindspring.com> @ 1997-11-20 0:00 ` Wei Jing Guo 1997-11-20 0:00 ` Mark Wilden 1 sibling, 0 replies; 105+ messages in thread From: Wei Jing Guo @ 1997-11-20 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) when we talk about Chinese language, we include Mandarin, Cantonese, Fujianese, and some other hundred dialects... there are defintely more people who speak Chinese, but it is also a fact that English is spoken in more countries...i don't why this argument should be posted in newsgroups about computer languages... ;) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! [not found] ` <MPG.ede6533db8ead2b9896b3@news.mindspring.com> 1997-11-20 0:00 ` Wei Jing Guo @ 1997-11-20 0:00 ` Mark Wilden 1 sibling, 0 replies; 105+ messages in thread From: Mark Wilden @ 1997-11-20 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) Dan wrote: > > Most people in South Africa, India, and perhaps Singapore do not speak > much or any English. I don't know about Singapore, but I'm skeptical about the other two. In fact, I was under the impression that English is the official language of India, due to the number of indigenous dialects. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Michael Rubenstein 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Mark Wilden [not found] ` <01bcf5c4$5916e8c0$0200000a@kld_mcs> @ 1997-11-20 0:00 ` Boyd Roberts 2 siblings, 0 replies; 105+ messages in thread From: Boyd Roberts @ 1997-11-20 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) [-- Warning: decoded text below may be mangled, UTF-8 assumed --] [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 554 bytes --] In article <3473723c.200248081@nntp.ix.netcom.com>, miker3@ix.netcom.com (Michael Rubenstein) writes: >According to the World Almanac there are almost twice as many speakers >of Mandarin (999 million) as of English (487 million). > By the shear number of speakers, the Mandarin speakers are predominant. However, the universally used language is, and will be, some varient of English. -- Boyd Roberts <boyd@france3.fr> UTM N 31 447109 5411310 En fin, bon, bref, si tu veux, point � la ligne, voil� quoi -- Jacques SPAT: fred@ultramax.net ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! [not found] ` <01bcf51b$abcea520$0200000a@kld_mcs> ` (2 preceding siblings ...) 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Michael Rubenstein @ 1997-11-22 0:00 ` Ncp268 1997-11-24 0:00 ` Richard A. O'Keefe 1997-11-25 0:00 ` chasjt 5 siblings, 0 replies; 105+ messages in thread From: Ncp268 @ 1997-11-22 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) In article <01bcf51b$abcea520$0200000a@kld_mcs>, "Mike Smith" <kld_msmith@earthlink.nospam.net> writes: >Is that because "we" (yes I'm American as if that weren't obvious) want it >that way? Maybe. But I think the UK deserves at least some of the >credit/blame. ;-) We (the UK) have become a third rate global power. Please dont kick us when we are down. ************************************************************************** ******************** Remember Nina Mackay! How many more??? ************************************************************************** ********************* ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! [not found] ` <01bcf51b$abcea520$0200000a@kld_mcs> ` (3 preceding siblings ...) 1997-11-22 0:00 ` Ncp268 @ 1997-11-24 0:00 ` Richard A. O'Keefe 1997-11-25 0:00 ` chasjt 5 siblings, 0 replies; 105+ messages in thread From: Richard A. O'Keefe @ 1997-11-24 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) [-- Warning: decoded text below may be mangled, UTF-8 assumed --] [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2461 bytes --] "Mike Smith" <kld_msmith@earthlink.nospam.net> writes: >Define "widely". There certainly are an awful lot of Chinese-speakers in >the world. But English is spoken in countries on every continent of the >globe (except South America? - I mean national tongue, not that one or more >people speak it). Hm. I've lived in four different Anglophone countries, and all of them had plenty of Chinese people living there. If you count countries where the official language is the same, Spanish is probably more `widely' spoken than English. But why count countries rather than people? And how `official' does it have to be? Election papers in this state are distributed in about 10 languages. >One hears English-language songs on >European radio all the time, but one almost never hears >non-English-language songs on American radio (I can't speak for >Commonwealth nations). Well, that says a lot about America, but very little about English. My two favourite TV channels here are the ABC (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) and the SBS (Special Broadcasting Services). The SBS shows a lot of foreign films on SBS (with subtitles, thankfully; the number of non-English languages I understand _well_ could be counted on the fingers of one knee). The Deutsche-Welle news is regularly shown in several languages (and very good it is too), and there are plenty of radio broadcasts in other languages, notably including Chinese. >but certainly English is more "widely" spoken than Chinese. For _some_ definitions of "widely", yes. And for _some_ definitions of "spoken". For example, I read COBOL fairly well, but almost never write it. Do I count as a "speaker" of COBOL or not? Does a Panamanian who _can_ speak English but seldom has occasion to count as an English speaker or not? Do you count the speakers of Kriol in this country, or Tok Pijin in PNG, as "English" speakers or not? All of this matters in this thread only because of the programming analogues. On the evidence I've seen, the number of _fluent_ C "speakers" is vanishingly small. And then there are all the retread C programmers calling themselves C++ programmers, without using that fluently either. Once upon a time, the majority of human beings used stone tools. Where would we be now, if we let 'the majority' tell us what tools to use? -- John �neas Byron O'Keefe; 1921/02/04-1997/09/27; TLG,TLTA,BBTNOTL. Richard A. O'Keefe; RMIT Comp.Sci; http://www.cs.rmit.edu.au/%7Eok ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! [not found] ` <01bcf51b$abcea520$0200000a@kld_mcs> ` (4 preceding siblings ...) 1997-11-24 0:00 ` Richard A. O'Keefe @ 1997-11-25 0:00 ` chasjt 5 siblings, 0 replies; 105+ messages in thread From: chasjt @ 1997-11-25 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Mike Smith Mike Smith wrote: > <snip> One hears English-language songs on > European radio all the time, but one almost never hears > non-English-language songs on American radio (I can't speak for > Commonwealth nations). <snip> Hell, you can't even speak for Texas. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
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* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! [not found] ` <34745A75.D22E132D@zeelandnet.nl> @ 1997-11-20 0:00 ` John Rickard 0 siblings, 0 replies; 105+ messages in thread From: John Rickard @ 1997-11-20 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! [not found] ` <347067B8.46@lysator.liu.se> [not found] ` <64qllr$c45@mtinsc03.worldnet.att.net> @ 1997-11-18 0:00 ` Dr E. Buxbaum 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Matt Corey 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz 1997-11-18 0:00 ` Chieh Cheng 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Mike Smith 3 siblings, 2 replies; 105+ messages in thread From: Dr E. Buxbaum @ 1997-11-18 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) Ingemar Ragnemalm wrote: > Couldn't you at least flame Pascal and ADA in favor of > something *interesting*, like Forth, Scheme or PDP-11 > assembler? Joining the majority to flame the minority, > sheesh. Boring. I always thought C WAS the PDP-11 macro assembler! ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! 1997-11-18 0:00 ` Dr E. Buxbaum @ 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Matt Corey 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz 1 sibling, 1 reply; 105+ messages in thread From: Matt Corey @ 1997-11-19 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) Dr E. Buxbaum wrote: > Ingemar Ragnemalm wrote: > > > Couldn't you at least flame Pascal and ADA in favor of > > something *interesting*, like Forth, Scheme or PDP-11 > > assembler? Joining the majority to flame the minority, > > sheesh. Boring. > > I always thought C WAS the PDP-11 macro assembler! C: The power and functionality of assembly language with the usability and readability of assembly language. ;-) I think Tcl is the only language that anyone will ever need! I haven't been able to do anything in any other language, so Tcl is the only real language. (Never mind the fact the the Tcl library is written in C.) Also, it's Ada, not ADA. That's the people who approve your toothbrushes. :-) A programming language is a tool, just like a hammer. A particular language is suitable for certain problems and domains. I have yet to see anyone write an OS in Tcl or Awk. Does this make them 'worthless' languages? C doesn't support Objects, C++ doesn't have multithreading defined in the language, Ada is perfect - I mean Ada doesn't support the concept of interfaces a la Java, Java doesn't support multiple inheritance directly, and Object Pascal (Delphi) is not portable in any way, shape, or form (pun intended). I use all of these languages extensively and they are all very good languages. If I had to choose one language to use exclusively, I would quit and go work on my '66 Skylark. The analysis and design of a system and the skill of the programmer is implementing this has more to do with software quality than the language chosen. Viva la difference. (Frenglish) Does anyone have a Mandarin chinese keyboard that I can borrow? Matt ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Matt Corey @ 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Kaz Kylheku 1997-11-25 0:00 ` Martin M Dowie 0 siblings, 2 replies; 105+ messages in thread From: Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz @ 1997-11-19 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) Matt Corey wrote: > > C: The power and functionality of assembly language with the > usability and readability of assembly language. ;-) That's on a good day; the C preprocessor has less power and functionality than any macro language I've used in decades. And some C constructs are more arcane that assembler language. OTOH, I remember defending a particualr C construct against the charge that it was opaque and poor practice. > Also, it's Ada, not ADA. That's the people who approve your > toothbrushes. :-) Yes, but see below. > in Tcl or Awk. Shouldn't that be AWK, since it's named after the authors? -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Senior Software SE The values in from and reply-to are for the benefit of spammers: reply to domain eds.com, user msustys1.smetz or to domain gsg.eds.com, user smetz. Do not reply to spamtrap@library.lspace.org ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz @ 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Kaz Kylheku 1997-11-20 0:00 ` Mike Smith [not found] ` <3474B3E4.67FA@gsg.eds.com> 1997-11-25 0:00 ` Martin M Dowie 1 sibling, 2 replies; 105+ messages in thread From: Kaz Kylheku @ 1997-11-19 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) In article <34738872.783@gsg.eds.com>, Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <nospam@gsg.eds.com> wrote: >Matt Corey wrote: >> >> C: The power and functionality of assembly language with the >> usability and readability of assembly language. ;-) > >That's on a good day; the C preprocessor has less power and >functionality than any macro language I've used in decades. And some C That's probably a good thing. The current preprocessor is abused enough as it is. Because it's not too complicated, one can reasonably wade through some of the worst abuses. TeX is a powerful macro language; ever try to debug those important ``include'' files that come with the distribution? Aaaaargh... The problem with macro languages is that something can undergo so many confusing levels of expansion that it becomes difficult, if not nearly impossible to understand what is going on. Consider that the compiler for Plan 9 C actually has a _simplified_ preprocessor (with respect to the requirements of ANSI C). >constructs are more arcane that assembler language. Which ones? I would vote for the possibility of side effects causing undefined behaviors unheard of in assembly language. That has more to do with the way a construct is used. Still, to me that is the single worst aspect of the C language, and one of the least poorly understood by the average joe who fancies himself a programmer. It's amazing how often in comp.lang.c we get some buffoon who claims that his compiler is incorrectly translating some expression that obviously violates the rules with respect to side effects. >> Also, it's Ada, not ADA. That's the people who approve your >> toothbrushes. :-) > >Yes, but see below. > >> in Tcl or Awk. > >Shouldn't that be AWK, since it's named after the authors? Touche! :) And TCL is also an acronym, is in not? Tool Command Language or some such thing. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Kaz Kylheku @ 1997-11-20 0:00 ` Mike Smith 1997-11-21 0:00 ` David Weller [not found] ` <3474B3E4.67FA@gsg.eds.com> 1 sibling, 1 reply; 105+ messages in thread From: Mike Smith @ 1997-11-20 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) Kaz Kylheku <kaz@helios.crest.nt.com> wrote in article <650kf8$smt$1@helios.crest.nt.com>... > >> in Tcl or Awk. > > > >Shouldn't that be AWK, since it's named after the authors? > > Touche! :) And TCL is also an acronym, is in not? Tool Command Language or some > such thing. They're both acronyms, but I've seen them widely (couldn't help digging up that word again ;-) used without capitalization. Sort of like scuba, which is an acronym, but is very often not capitalized. --Mike Smith ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! 1997-11-20 0:00 ` Mike Smith @ 1997-11-21 0:00 ` David Weller 0 siblings, 0 replies; 105+ messages in thread From: David Weller @ 1997-11-21 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) In article <01bcf5c2$c4dfe7c0$0200000a@kld_mcs>, Mike Smith <kld_msmith@earthlink.nospam.net> wrote: >Kaz Kylheku <kaz@helios.crest.nt.com> wrote in article ><650kf8$smt$1@helios.crest.nt.com>... >> >or some >> such thing. > >They're both acronyms, but I've seen them widely (couldn't help digging up >that word again ;-) used without capitalization. Sort of like scuba, which >is an acronym, but is very often not capitalized. > >--Mike Smith And the opposite of Ada, which should never be written in all caps, but often is by those that don't understand it's a proper name, not an acronym (at least whilst speaking of programming languages). -- RIVA Technologies: Eschewing Obfuscation through Manipulexity and Whipitupitude Visual Applications and Simulation. Also specializing in migrating projects from Ada83 (Rational/Verdix/SunAda) to Ada95 (GNAT-family). ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
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* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! [not found] ` <3474B3E4.67FA@gsg.eds.com> @ 1997-11-21 0:00 ` Dennis Weldy 1997-11-24 0:00 ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz 0 siblings, 1 reply; 105+ messages in thread From: Dennis Weldy @ 1997-11-21 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz wrote in message <3474B3E4.67FA@gsg.eds.com>... >Kaz Kylheku wrote: > >> >constructs are more arcane that assembler language. >> >> Which ones? > >Well, I was thinking of the use of * both for defining pointers and for >dereferencing them. I've always thought htat made sense: the declaraction matches use. Or do you object to using [] for the declaration of arrays, and for indexing into the array as well? ;-) Dennis ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! 1997-11-21 0:00 ` Dennis Weldy @ 1997-11-24 0:00 ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz 1997-11-25 0:00 ` Peter Seebach 1997-11-25 0:00 ` Dennis Weldy 0 siblings, 2 replies; 105+ messages in thread From: Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz @ 1997-11-24 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) Dennis Weldy wrote: > >Well, I was thinking of the use of * both for defining pointers and for > >dereferencing them. > > I've always thought htat made sense: the declaraction matches use. N, they don't; the order is different. > Or do you object to using [] for the declaration of arrays, and for indexing > into the array as well? ;-) No, because there it's consistent. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Senior Software SE The values in from and reply-to are for the benefit of spammers: reply to domain eds.com, user msustys1.smetz or to domain gsg.eds.com, user smetz. Do not reply to spamtrap@library.lspace.org ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! 1997-11-24 0:00 ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz @ 1997-11-25 0:00 ` Peter Seebach 1997-11-25 0:00 ` Dennis Weldy 1 sibling, 0 replies; 105+ messages in thread From: Peter Seebach @ 1997-11-25 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) In article <3479FD07.2934@gsg.eds.com>, Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <nospam@gsg.eds.com> wrote: >N, they don't; the order is different. Is not. Well, not much. int *ip; says, quite literally, that '*ip' is an integer. If, later, you write '*ip', you are using integer type. -s -- seebs@plethora.net -- I am not speaking for my employer. Copyright '97 All rights reserved. This was not sent by my cat. C and Unix wizard - send mail for help, or send money for a consultation. Visit my new ISP <URL:http://www.plethora.net/> --- More Net, Less Spam! Plethora . Net ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! 1997-11-24 0:00 ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz 1997-11-25 0:00 ` Peter Seebach @ 1997-11-25 0:00 ` Dennis Weldy 1 sibling, 0 replies; 105+ messages in thread From: Dennis Weldy @ 1997-11-25 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) int * p = NULL ; the * comes before the variable name. I've defined an int pointer p = new int ; *p = 10 ; the * comes before the variable name. I'm using the int pointed to by p. Have I missed something? Dennis Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz wrote in message <3479FD07.2934@gsg.eds.com>... >Dennis Weldy wrote: > >> >Well, I was thinking of the use of * both for defining pointers and for >> >dereferencing them. >> >> I've always thought htat made sense: the declaraction matches use. > >N, they don't; the order is different. > >> Or do you object to using [] for the declaration of arrays, and for indexing >> into the array as well? ;-) > >No, because there it's consistent. > > >-- > > Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz > Senior Software SE > >The values in from and reply-to are for the benefit of spammers: >reply to domain eds.com, user msustys1.smetz or to domain gsg.eds.com, >user smetz. Do not reply to spamtrap@library.lspace.org ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Kaz Kylheku @ 1997-11-25 0:00 ` Martin M Dowie 1 sibling, 0 replies; 105+ messages in thread From: Martin M Dowie @ 1997-11-25 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) In article <34738872.783@gsg.eds.com>, "Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz" <nospam@gsg.eds.com> writes >Yes, but see below. > >> in Tcl or Awk. > >Shouldn't that be AWK, since it's named after the authors? > I always thought it was AWKward ;-) -- Martin M Dowie ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! 1997-11-18 0:00 ` Dr E. Buxbaum 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Matt Corey @ 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Kaz Kylheku 1 sibling, 1 reply; 105+ messages in thread From: Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz @ 1997-11-19 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) Dr E. Buxbaum wrote: > I always thought C WAS the PDP-11 macro assembler! No; in fact, C was original done on a more primitive machine, the PDP-7. While the ++ and -- operators were clearly inspired by the equivalent macine instructions, the C preprocessor has less expressive power than the macro facility of any assembler that I am familiar with. It might be fair to say that C is BCPL, although I would consider that there were too many changes from BCPL to B to C for me to defend such a claim. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Senior Software SE The values in from and reply-to are for the benefit of spammers: reply to domain eds.com, user msustys1.smetz or to domain gsg.eds.com, user smetz. Do not reply to spamtrap@library.lspace.org ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz @ 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Kaz Kylheku 0 siblings, 0 replies; 105+ messages in thread From: Kaz Kylheku @ 1997-11-19 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) In article <34733969.13D5@gsg.eds.com>, Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <nospam@gsg.eds.com> wrote: >Dr E. Buxbaum wrote: > >> I always thought C WAS the PDP-11 macro assembler! > >No; in fact, C was original done on a more primitive machine, the PDP-7. No it wasn't. The language that Ken Thompson developed for the PDP-7 was called B. C was developed by Dennis Ritchie using the PDP-11. There is a myth surrounding >While the ++ and -- operators were clearly inspired by the equivalent >macine instructions, the C preprocessor has less expressive power than >the macro facility of any assembler that I am familiar with. That is a myth which is false. The ++ and -- operators were in the B language that was implemented on the PDP-7, which had no such instructions. They are an invention of Ken Thompson alone. The PDP-7 did actually have some auto-increment memory cells. While they may have suggested to Ken the idea for these operators, they were not used in their implementation. C inherited its ++ and -- operators from B, and not from the PDP-11 instruction set as the widespread myth would have it. >It might be fair to say that C is BCPL, although I would consider that >there were too many changes from BCPL to B to C for me to defend such a >claim. There are similarities between C and BCPL, but that can also be said of C and <insert language name here>. One chief differece is that BCPL is not byte oriented but cell oriented. Pointers are unscaled and reference cells, not individual bytes. The meaning of a cell depends on the applied operation. Individual bytes are packed into cells, and are referenced using special operators that take into account the packing. This is quite different from C's comprehensive type system, byte oriented nature, and pointers that automatically scale (not to mention vast differences between the syntaxes). ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! [not found] ` <347067B8.46@lysator.liu.se> [not found] ` <64qllr$c45@mtinsc03.worldnet.att.net> 1997-11-18 0:00 ` Dr E. Buxbaum @ 1997-11-18 0:00 ` Chieh Cheng 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Mike Smith 3 siblings, 1 reply; 105+ messages in thread From: Chieh Cheng @ 1997-11-18 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) >John Black wrote: >> >> ADA and Pascal are two of the most useless inventions Man has ever >> wasted space on this planet with. These languages are hard to learn, >> have zero applications, and people who only know these languages can >> only find jobs at Taco Bell! Smart programmers spend their time >> learning only C, C++, and Java in that order. Obviously, you do not understand the benefits of learning a variety of different computer languages. If you don't learn LISP, you will never fully understand the capability and limitation of C and C++. If you are, or were, a computer science student, I would have been ashamed of your CS department. CC -- http://www.geocities.com/Area51/8145/ Up the mountain, down the slope. Around the tree trunks, past the streams. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! 1997-11-18 0:00 ` Chieh Cheng @ 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz 1997-11-24 0:00 ` Richard A. O'Keefe 0 siblings, 1 reply; 105+ messages in thread From: Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz @ 1997-11-19 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) Chieh Cheng wrote: > Obviously, you do not understand the benefits of learning a variety of > different computer languages. If you don't learn LISP, you will never > fully understand the capability and limitation of C and C++. Oh, no! Please don't start a LISP versus Prolog debate! -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Senior Software SE The values in from and reply-to are for the benefit of spammers: reply to domain eds.com, user msustys1.smetz or to domain gsg.eds.com, user smetz. Do not reply to spamtrap@library.lspace.org ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz @ 1997-11-24 0:00 ` Richard A. O'Keefe 0 siblings, 0 replies; 105+ messages in thread From: Richard A. O'Keefe @ 1997-11-24 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) [-- Warning: decoded text below may be mangled, UTF-8 assumed --] [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 675 bytes --] "Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz" <nospam@gsg.eds.com> writes: >Oh, no! Please don't start a LISP versus Prolog debate! Any competent Lisp programmer knows there is _something_ of value in Prolog, and what's more, knows where to find a free Lisp embedding of Prolog for when it's useful. Any competent Prolog programmer knows there is much of value in Lisp, and will look to it for ideas. (Some of the ideas in my Craft of Prolog were stolen from a paper by Boyer & Moore on how to map Fortran to pure Lisp for their theorem prover.) -- John �neas Byron O'Keefe; 1921/02/04-1997/09/27; TLG,TLTA,BBTNOTL. Richard A. O'Keefe; RMIT Comp.Sci; http://www.cs.rmit.edu.au/%7Eok ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
* Re: English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! [not found] ` <347067B8.46@lysator.liu.se> ` (2 preceding siblings ...) 1997-11-18 0:00 ` Chieh Cheng @ 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Mike Smith 3 siblings, 0 replies; 105+ messages in thread From: Mike Smith @ 1997-11-19 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) Ingemar Ragnemalm <ingemar@lysator.liu.se> wrote in article <347067B8.46@lysator.liu.se>... > Do you realize that Java is more related to Object Pascal > than to C and even C++? You don't? Yes, I thought you wouldn't. > Think about it. > Of course we do. That's why it sucks so bad. ;-) ;-) ;-) <--I'm putting a bunch here so you can see I'm *really* joking. --Mike Smith ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 105+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~1997-12-17 0:00 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 105+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 1997-11-20 0:00 English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language you need!! Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-96 -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below -- 1997-11-20 0:00 Justin Ng 1997-10-28 0:00 ADA SUCKS, C/C++/JAVA RULES!!!! John Black 1997-10-28 0:00 ` John Black 1997-10-28 0:00 ` ADA and Pascal SUCK, C,C++, and Java are the only languages you need!! John Black 1997-10-29 0:00 ` Xu Yifeng [not found] ` <347067B8.46@lysator.liu.se> [not found] ` <64qllr$c45@mtinsc03.worldnet.att.net> 1997-11-18 0:00 ` English SUCKS, Chinese is the only language " Davide Bionda 1997-11-18 0:00 ` Timo Salmi 1997-11-18 0:00 ` John Rickard 1997-11-18 0:00 ` Mark Wilden 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Les Hazlewood 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Kaz Kylheku 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Mark Wilden 1997-12-17 0:00 ` Jeffrey George 1997-12-17 0:00 ` Mark Wilden 1997-11-19 0:00 ` system 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Matt Corey 1997-11-29 0:00 ` D. Ross 1997-11-29 0:00 ` Spaceman Spiff 1997-11-29 0:00 ` Mark Wilden 1997-12-02 0:00 ` William Rapp 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Kaz Kylheku 1997-11-20 0:00 ` Boyd Roberts 1997-11-26 0:00 ` michael j tobler 1997-11-27 0:00 ` Denny 1997-11-18 0:00 ` Chieh Cheng 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Gary A. Wiltshire 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Dennis Weldy 1997-11-19 0:00 ` John Rickard 1997-11-21 0:00 ` Dennis Weldy 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Chieh Cheng 1997-11-20 0:00 ` Mike Smith 1997-11-19 0:00 ` John Rickard [not found] ` <01bcf51e$35e2a0c0$0200000a@kld_mcs> 1997-11-19 0:00 ` John Rickard 1997-11-18 0:00 ` Billy Chambless 1997-11-18 0:00 ` Jean-Sebastien Payette 1997-11-18 0:00 ` Dennis Weldy 1997-11-18 0:00 ` Jean-Sebastien Payette 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Kaz Kylheku 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Dennis Weldy 1997-11-19 0:00 ` system 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Chuck Adams 1997-11-19 0:00 ` J. W. Rider 1997-11-24 0:00 ` Richard A. O'Keefe 1997-11-19 0:00 ` John Rickard 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Davide Bionda 1997-11-19 0:00 ` John Rickard 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Mike Smith 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Jean-Sebastien Payette 1997-11-24 0:00 ` Richard A. O'Keefe 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Cynthia & Bill 1997-11-19 0:00 ` tmt 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Mark Wilden 1997-11-28 0:00 ` Ingemar Ragnemalm 1997-11-29 0:00 ` Danette & Murray Root 1997-12-02 0:00 ` Morgan Palaeo Associates 1997-12-05 0:00 ` R.E.Donais 1997-12-03 0:00 ` Matt Corey 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Kaz Kylheku 1997-11-21 0:00 ` Jerry Sams 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Mike Smith [not found] ` <64sql2$k0@ <YSQz$BJ98GA.158@news2.ingr.com> 1997-11-19 0:00 ` John R. Reagan [not found] ` <64sql2$k0@ <3473407e.17757163@lhc.nlm.nih.gov> 1997-11-20 0:00 ` John R. Reagan 1997-11-18 0:00 ` JCore 1997-11-21 0:00 ` Jerry Sams [not found] ` <01bcf51b$abcea520$0200000a@kld_mcs> 1997-11-19 0:00 ` system [not found] ` <01bcf5c3$afbda340$0200000a@kld_mcs> 1997-11-20 0:00 ` Craig Franck 1997-11-19 0:00 ` John Rickard 1997-11-20 0:00 ` Christer Gustavsson 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Michael Rubenstein 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Mark Wilden 1997-11-20 0:00 ` Michael Rubenstein 1997-11-20 0:00 ` Peter Seebach 1997-11-20 0:00 ` Joseph Santaniello [not found] ` <34746A05.49AA@mWilden.com> 1997-11-20 0:00 ` system 1997-11-26 0:00 ` Frans E. Boone 1997-11-26 0:00 ` CERVANTES OJEDA, Jorge 1997-11-26 0:00 ` Kevin Edwards 1997-11-26 0:00 ` Peter Seebach 1997-11-26 0:00 ` system 1997-11-27 0:00 ` Knochenhauer Bernd 1997-11-20 0:00 ` Boyd Roberts 1997-11-20 0:00 ` Larry Elmore 1997-11-25 0:00 ` Bob Bakh 1997-11-26 0:00 ` macpar [not found] ` <01bcf5c4$5916e8c0$0200000a@kld_mcs> [not found] ` <MPG.ede6533db8ead2b9896b3@news.mindspring.com> 1997-11-20 0:00 ` Wei Jing Guo 1997-11-20 0:00 ` Mark Wilden 1997-11-20 0:00 ` Boyd Roberts 1997-11-22 0:00 ` Ncp268 1997-11-24 0:00 ` Richard A. O'Keefe 1997-11-25 0:00 ` chasjt [not found] ` <34745A75.D22E132D@zeelandnet.nl> 1997-11-20 0:00 ` John Rickard 1997-11-18 0:00 ` Dr E. Buxbaum 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Matt Corey 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Kaz Kylheku 1997-11-20 0:00 ` Mike Smith 1997-11-21 0:00 ` David Weller [not found] ` <3474B3E4.67FA@gsg.eds.com> 1997-11-21 0:00 ` Dennis Weldy 1997-11-24 0:00 ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz 1997-11-25 0:00 ` Peter Seebach 1997-11-25 0:00 ` Dennis Weldy 1997-11-25 0:00 ` Martin M Dowie 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Kaz Kylheku 1997-11-18 0:00 ` Chieh Cheng 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz 1997-11-24 0:00 ` Richard A. O'Keefe 1997-11-19 0:00 ` Mike Smith
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