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From: "Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-96" <condicma@PWFL.COM>
Subject: Re: Safety-critical development in Ada and Eiffel
Date: 1997/07/18
Date: 1997-07-18T00:00:00+00:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <97071811124101@psavax.pwfl.com> (raw)


Samuel Mize <smize@LINK.COM> writes:
>Correct me if I'm wrong.
>
>My understanding from the previous threads was that there was
>a specific management decision to not consider Ariane 5
>requirements for the Ariane 4 INS design.  The check removal
>was reasonable in the Ariane 4 context.
>
    I read the report some time ago and memory fades - but my
    recollection is that they needed to gain some speed and decided to
    do so by removing the runtime checks. However, they performed an
    analysis first which indicated that across the entire Ariane 4
    flight profile, the routine could not see any numbers big enough
    to cause the error. The mistake was in accepting Ariane 4 code for
    Ariane 5 and *presuming* that it was going to work just fine
    without checking it out across the Ariane 5 flight profile.

>Now, Meyer et al. never stated outright that using Eiffel (or
>assertions) would have prevented the crash; they stated that
>using Design By Contract (DBC) would prevented the crash.
>
    Point taken. But it still seems to me that the software design was
    100% adequate in it's original context. (And the keyword here is
    "adequate" - "good enough" is not nearly so wonderful a thing a
    "perfect", but it's "good enough!") The mistake was to accept what
    was an adequate design in one context and presuming it would work
    fine without retesting it in the new environment. An analogy would
    be if I designed a wheel for a Honda Civic and then presumed
    (because wheels are wheels, right?) that I could mount the same
    wheel on a Lincoln Towncar. It might even work for a while until I
    took a really tight turn and the excess weight caused it to fail.
    Hence the fault was not with the design methodology - whatever
    methodology was originally used (including design by Ouija board,
    if you like) was *adequate* to produce a working product. The
    failure lies in the management decision - for which I'm sure
    someone caught some serious heck.

    MDC

Marin David Condic, Senior Computer Engineer     ATT:        561.796.8997
Pratt & Whitney GESP, M/S 731-96, P.O.B. 109600  Fax:        561.796.4669
West Palm Beach, FL, 33410-9600                  Internet:   CONDICMA@PWFL.COM
===============================================================================
    "A government that is big enough to give you all you want is big
    enough to take it all away."
        --  Barry Goldwater
===============================================================================




             reply	other threads:[~1997-07-18  0:00 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 255+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
1997-07-18  0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-96 [this message]
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
1997-08-24  0:00 Safety-critical development in Ada and Eiffel Robert Dewar
1997-07-24  0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-96
1997-07-21  0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-96
1997-07-21  0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-21  0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-96
1997-07-21  0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-18  0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-96
1997-07-18  0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-96
1997-07-22  0:00 ` Karel Th�nissen
1997-07-18  0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-96
1997-07-17  0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-96
1997-07-17  0:00 ` Samuel Mize
1997-07-17  0:00   ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-09  0:00 Is ADA as good for graphics programming as C? (WAS: Re: Avoiding the second historic mistake) Tucker Taft
1997-07-10  0:00 ` Safety-critical development in Ada and Eiffel Don Harrison
1997-07-10  0:00   ` Mike Stark
1997-07-11  0:00     ` Donovan Baarda
1997-07-13  0:00       ` Steve Furlong
1997-07-16  0:00         ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-07-17  0:00           ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-17  0:00           ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-18  0:00           ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-18  0:00             ` Nick Leaton
1997-07-18  0:00               ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-18  0:00           ` John Nagle
1997-07-18  0:00             ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-10  0:00   ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-11  0:00     ` Ted Velkoff
1997-07-12  0:00       ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-13  0:00         ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-14  0:00           ` Wes Groleau
1997-07-15  0:00             ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-15  0:00           ` Don Harrison
1997-07-15  0:00             ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-16  0:00           ` Paul Johnson
1997-07-16  0:00             ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-17  0:00               ` Paul Johnson
1997-07-17  0:00                 ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-18  0:00                   ` Paul Johnson
1997-07-18  0:00                     ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-21  0:00                       ` Paul Johnson
1997-07-18  0:00                     ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-17  0:00             ` Jon S Anthony
     [not found]               ` <EDHqKo.K52@world.std.com>
1997-07-18  0:00                 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-19  0:00                   ` Robert A Duff
1997-07-20  0:00                     ` Tucker Taft
1997-07-10  0:00   ` Joe Gwinn
1997-07-11  0:00     ` Robert S. White
1997-07-15  0:00       ` Don Harrison
1997-07-15  0:00         ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-16  0:00           ` Don Harrison
1997-07-11  0:00   ` Don Harrison
1997-07-11  0:00   ` Kazimir Majorinc
1997-07-12  0:00     ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-11  0:00   ` Don Harrison
1997-07-11  0:00     ` James Graves
1997-07-14  0:00       ` Don Harrison
1997-07-12  0:00     ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-15  0:00       ` Don Harrison
1997-07-15  0:00         ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-16  0:00           ` Jean-Marc Jezequel
1997-07-16  0:00             ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-17  0:00               ` "Paul E. Bennett"
1997-07-17  0:00                 ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-17  0:00           ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-07-19  0:00             ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-21  0:00             ` Robert S. White
1997-07-20  0:00               ` nabbasi
1997-07-21  0:00                 ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-07-18  0:00           ` Don Harrison
1997-07-18  0:00             ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-22  0:00               ` Don Harrison
1997-07-21  0:00                 ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-23  0:00                   ` Don Harrison
1997-07-23  0:00                     ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-07-24  0:00                       ` Don Harrison
1997-07-24  0:00                         ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-26  0:00                           ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-07-31  0:00                             ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-28  0:00                           ` Nick Leaton
1997-07-28  0:00                             ` Steve Jones - JON
1997-07-31  0:00                             ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-29  0:00                           ` Don Harrison
1997-07-31  0:00                             ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-07  0:00                               ` Don Harrison
1997-08-07  0:00                                 ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-09  0:00                                   ` Jim Cochrane
1997-08-11  0:00                                     ` Paul Johnson
1997-08-11  0:00                                       ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-12  0:00                                         ` Mark A Biggar
1997-08-19  0:00                                           ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-19  0:00                                             ` Nick Leaton
1997-08-19  0:00                                             ` Bertrand Meyer
1997-08-19  0:00                                               ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-20  0:00                                                 ` Nick Leaton
1997-08-21  0:00                                                   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-22  0:00                                                     ` Nick Leaton
1997-08-21  0:00                                                   ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-08-20  0:00                                                 ` Lee Webber
1997-08-21  0:00                                                   ` Don Harrison
1997-08-23  0:00                                                     ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-20  0:00                                             ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-26  0:00                                             ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1997-08-13  0:00                                         ` Paul Johnson
1997-08-13  0:00                                           ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-15  0:00                                             ` Paul Johnson
1997-08-15  0:00                                               ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-18  0:00                                                 ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-08-19  0:00                                                   ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-20  0:00                                                     ` Nick Leaton
1997-08-20  0:00                                                       ` Nasser
1997-08-21  0:00                                                       ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-22  0:00                                                         ` Nick Leaton
1997-08-23  0:00                                                           ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-21  0:00                                                     ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-08-23  0:00                                                       ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-12  0:00                                   ` Don Harrison
1997-08-12  0:00                                     ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-12  0:00                                     ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-13  0:00                                       ` Don Harrison
1997-08-13  0:00                                         ` Samuel Mize
1997-08-13  0:00                                           ` Robert A Duff
1997-08-14  0:00                                             ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-15  0:00                                             ` Don Harrison
1997-08-16  0:00                                               ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-13  0:00                                         ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-15  0:00                                           ` Don Harrison
1997-08-16  0:00                                             ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-13  0:00                                       ` Ted Velkoff
1997-08-13  0:00                                         ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-13  0:00                                         ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-13  0:00                                           ` Ted Velkoff
1997-08-14  0:00                                             ` Matt Austern
1997-08-14  0:00                                               ` Ted Velkoff
1997-08-18  0:00                                                 ` Matt Austern
1997-08-20  0:00                                                   ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-08-21  0:00                                                     ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-22  0:00                                                       ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-08-15  0:00                                             ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-16  0:00                                               ` Ted Velkoff
1997-08-16  0:00                                                 ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-16  0:00                                                   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-16  0:00                                                     ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-18  0:00                                                     ` Ted Velkoff
1997-08-18  0:00                                                   ` Ted Velkoff
1997-08-19  0:00                                                     ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-14  0:00                                           ` Nick Leaton
1997-08-16  0:00                                             ` Robert Dewar
1997-08-18  0:00                                             ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-08-19  0:00                                               ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-21  0:00                                                 ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-08-23  0:00                                                   ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-23  0:00                                     ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-08-23  0:00                                       ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-23  0:00                     ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-25  0:00                       ` Don Harrison
1997-07-15  0:00         ` Wes Groleau
1997-07-15  0:00           ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-16  0:00           ` Don Harrison
1997-07-16  0:00             ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-16  0:00               ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-17  0:00                 ` Paul Johnson
1997-07-17  0:00                   ` Stuart Palin
1997-07-18  0:00                     ` Paul Johnson
1997-07-18  0:00                     ` Ian Rae
1997-07-17  0:00                   ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-18  0:00                   ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-07-18  0:00                 ` Don Harrison
1997-07-20  0:00                 ` Don Harrison
1997-07-18  0:00           ` Robert I. Eachus
1997-07-21  0:00             ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-07-16  0:00         ` Warwick Pulley
1997-07-16  0:00           ` Nick Leaton
1997-07-16  0:00             ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-20  0:00               ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-07-24  0:00                 ` Paul M Gover
1997-07-26  0:00                   ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-07-28  0:00                     ` Robert S. White
1997-08-09  0:00                       ` Marinos J. Yannikos
1997-08-10  0:00                         ` Robert S. White
1997-08-11  0:00                         ` Peter Hamer
1997-08-11  0:00                           ` "Paul E. Bennett"
1997-07-29  0:00                     ` Don Harrison
1997-07-24  0:00                 ` Joe Buck
1997-07-21  0:00               ` Don Harrison
1997-07-17  0:00             ` Warwick Pulley
1997-07-17  0:00               ` Nick Leaton
1997-07-17  0:00                 ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-17  0:00                 ` Richie Bielak
1997-07-17  0:00                   ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-23  0:00                     ` Don Harrison
1997-07-23  0:00                       ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-25  0:00                         ` Don Harrison
1997-07-17  0:00                   ` Samuel Tardieu
1997-07-17  0:00                     ` Richie Bielak
1997-07-23  0:00                       ` Don Harrison
1997-07-23  0:00                         ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-25  0:00                           ` Don Harrison
1997-07-23  0:00                         ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-24  0:00                           ` Don Harrison
1997-07-24  0:00                             ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-23  0:00                         ` Karel Th�nissen
1997-07-24  0:00                           ` Don Harrison
1997-07-24  0:00                             ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-29  0:00                               ` Don Harrison
1997-07-29  0:00                                 ` Ron Kohl
1997-07-29  0:00                                   ` Don Harrison
1997-07-30  0:00                                     ` Don Harrison
1997-07-31  0:00                                 ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-07  0:00                                   ` Don Harrison
1997-08-07  0:00                                     ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-13  0:00                                       ` Don Harrison
1997-08-13  0:00                                         ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-14  0:00                                           ` Don Harrison
1997-08-15  0:00                                             ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-19  0:00                                               ` Don Harrison
1997-08-19  0:00                                                 ` Lee Webber
1997-08-20  0:00                                                 ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-21  0:00                                                   ` Don Harrison
1997-08-15  0:00                                             ` Don Harrison
1997-08-15  0:00                                               ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-16  0:00                                                 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-08-19  0:00                                                 ` Don Harrison
1997-08-20  0:00                                                   ` Ken Garlington
1997-08-15  0:00                                             ` Lee Webber
1997-08-19  0:00                                               ` Don Harrison
1997-08-19  0:00                                                 ` Lee Webber
1997-07-24  0:00                             ` Don Harrison
1997-07-17  0:00                   ` Karel Th�nissen
1997-07-23  0:00                   ` Don Harrison
1997-07-23  0:00                     ` Ken Garlington
1997-07-25  0:00                       ` Don Harrison
     [not found]                 ` <JSA.97Jul17174044@alexandria.organon.com>
1997-07-18  0:00                   ` Nick Leaton
1997-07-18  0:00                   ` Joachim Durchholz
1997-07-17  0:00               ` Warwick Pulley
1997-07-17  0:00           ` Don Harrison
1997-07-17  0:00             ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-18  0:00               ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-19  0:00                 ` Robert A Duff
1997-07-21  0:00                   ` W. Wesley Groleau x4923
1997-07-21  0:00               ` Don Harrison
1997-07-21  0:00                 ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-21  0:00                   ` Brian Rogoff
1997-07-17  0:00             ` Robert Dewar
1997-07-22  0:00               ` Don Harrison
1997-07-17  0:00             ` Karel Th�nissen
1997-07-21  0:00               ` Don Harrison
1997-07-16  0:00     ` Alan Brain
1997-07-18  0:00       ` Don Harrison
1997-07-22  0:00         ` Alan Brain
1997-07-22  0:00           ` Don Harrison
1997-07-23  0:00             ` Jon S Anthony
1997-07-24  0:00               ` Don Harrison
1997-07-25  0:00               ` Alan Brain
1997-07-25  0:00                 ` Jon S Anthony
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