From: "Marin David Condic, 407.796.8997, M/S 731-93" <condicma@PWFL.COM>
Subject: Re: Ariane 5 failure
Date: 1996/10/16
Date: 1996-10-16T00:00:00+00:00 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <96101610071768@psavax.pwfl.com> (raw)
Robert Dewar <dewar@MERV.CS.NYU.EDU> writes:
>It *is* possible to write reliable programs, though it is expensive. If you
>need to do this, and are not able to do it, then the answer is to investigate
>the tools that make this possible, and understand the necessary investment
>(which is alarmingly high). Some of these tools are related to correctness,
>but that's not the main focus. There are reliable incorect programs and
>correct unreliable programs, and what we are interested in is reliability.
>
<snip>
>Now of course informally we would like to make all programs realiable, but
>there is a cost/benefit trade off. For most non-safety critical programming
>(but not all), it is simply not cost effective to demand total reliability.
>
You are absolutely correct about the cost. The control software we
build is tested exhaustively from the module level on up to the
integration with physical sensors & actuators well before it gets
to drive an engine on a test stand - much less fly. It *is*
enormously expensive - but in the present day it's the only way to
be sure you aren't trying to fly something that will break.
The point is that our software testing was derived from the same
mindset as our hardware testing (turbine blades, pumps, bearings,
etc.) We probably test a hardware component for an engine even
more rigorously and at greater expense than we do for software -
which is, after all, just another "part" for the engine. The
mistake that is often made when looking at software it to think
that somehow (because it passed the "smoke" test?) it doesn't need
the same sort of rigorous testing we'd demand of any physical
device in order to be proven reliable.
Who would want to fly in an airplane powered by engines, the
design for which had been verified by powering up a single
prototype once and running it for 10 minutes. You'd probably feel
a lot safer if we ran a couple of prototypes right into the
ground, including making them ingest a few birds and deliberately
cutting loose a turbine blade or two at speed. If you want
reliable software, the testing can be no less rigorous.
MDC
Marin David Condic, Senior Computer Engineer ATT: 561.796.8997
M/S 731-96 Technet: 796.8997
Pratt & Whitney, GESP Fax: 561.796.4669
P.O. Box 109600 Internet: CONDICMA@PWFL.COM
West Palm Beach, FL 33410-9600 Internet: CONDIC@FLINET.COM
===============================================================================
"The speed with which people can change a courtesy into an
entitlement is awe-inspiring."
-- Miss Manners, February 8, 1994
===============================================================================
next reply other threads:[~1996-10-16 0:00 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 104+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
1996-10-16 0:00 Marin David Condic, 407.796.8997, M/S 731-93 [this message]
1996-10-18 0:00 ` Ariane 5 failure Ken Garlington
1996-10-19 0:00 ` Frank Manning
1996-10-21 0:00 ` Norman H. Cohen
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
1996-10-31 0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-93
1996-10-28 0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-93
1996-10-29 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1996-11-08 0:00 ` robin
1996-10-28 0:00 Marin David Condic, 561.796.8997, M/S 731-93
1996-10-21 0:00 Marin David Condic, 407.796.8997, M/S 731-93
1996-10-22 0:00 ` Adam Beneschan
1996-10-14 0:00 Marin David Condic, 407.796.8997, M/S 731-93
1996-10-15 0:00 ` Robert I. Eachus
1996-10-15 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1996-10-16 0:00 ` Michael F Brenner
1996-10-16 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1996-10-23 0:00 ` robin
1996-10-03 0:00 Marin David Condic, 407.796.8997, M/S 731-93
1996-10-03 0:00 Marin David Condic, 407.796.8997, M/S 731-93
1996-10-03 0:00 Marin David Condic, 407.796.8997, M/S 731-93
1996-10-01 0:00 Marin David Condic, 407.796.8997, M/S 731-93
1996-10-02 0:00 ` Robert I. Eachus
1996-10-02 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1996-10-02 0:00 ` Matthew Heaney
1996-10-04 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1996-10-05 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1996-10-06 0:00 ` Keith Thompson
1996-10-10 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1996-10-14 0:00 ` Matthew Heaney
1996-10-15 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1996-10-16 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1996-10-18 0:00 ` Keith Thompson
1996-10-18 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1996-10-18 0:00 ` Samuel T. Harris
1996-10-21 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1996-10-23 0:00 ` robin
1996-10-01 0:00 Marin David Condic, 407.796.8997, M/S 731-93
1996-10-02 0:00 ` Alan Brain
1996-10-02 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1996-10-02 0:00 ` Matthew Heaney
1996-10-04 0:00 ` Robert S. White
1996-10-05 0:00 ` Robert Dewar
1996-10-05 0:00 ` Alan Brain
1996-10-06 0:00 ` Robert S. White
1996-10-03 0:00 ` Alan Brain
1996-10-04 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1996-10-01 0:00 Marin David Condic, 407.796.8997, M/S 731-93
1996-10-02 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
[not found] <agrapsDy4oJH.29G@netcom.com>
1996-09-25 0:00 ` @@ robin
1996-09-25 0:00 ` Bob Kitzberger
1996-09-26 0:00 ` Ronald Kunne
1996-09-26 0:00 ` Matthew Heaney
1996-09-27 0:00 ` Wayne Hayes
1996-09-27 0:00 ` Richard Pattis
1996-09-29 0:00 ` Chris McKnight
1996-09-29 0:00 ` Alan Brain
1996-09-29 0:00 ` Dann Corbit
1996-10-01 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1996-09-27 0:00 ` Ronald Kunne
1996-09-27 0:00 ` Lawrence Foard
1996-10-04 0:00 ` @@ robin
1996-09-28 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1996-09-28 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1996-09-29 0:00 ` Alan Brain
1996-09-29 0:00 ` Robert A Duff
1996-09-30 0:00 ` Wayne L. Beavers
1996-10-01 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1996-10-01 0:00 ` Wayne L. Beavers
1996-10-01 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1996-10-02 0:00 ` Sandy McPherson
1996-10-03 0:00 ` Richard A. O'Keefe
1996-10-01 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1996-09-28 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1996-09-27 0:00 ` Alan Brain
1996-09-28 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1996-09-27 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1996-09-29 0:00 ` Louis K. Scheffer
1996-09-25 0:00 ` Michel OLAGNON
1996-09-25 0:00 ` Byron Kauffman
1996-09-25 0:00 ` A. Grant
1996-09-25 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1996-09-26 0:00 ` Byron Kauffman
1996-09-27 0:00 ` A. Grant
1996-09-26 0:00 ` Sandy McPherson
1996-09-25 0:00 ` Chris Morgan
1996-09-27 0:00 ` John McCabe
1996-10-01 0:00 ` Michael Dworetsky
1996-10-04 0:00 ` Steve Bell
1996-10-07 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1996-10-09 0:00 ` @@ robin
1996-10-09 0:00 ` Steve O'Neill
1996-10-12 0:00 ` Alan Brain
1996-10-04 0:00 ` @@ robin
1996-10-04 0:00 ` Michel OLAGNON
1996-10-09 0:00 ` @@ robin
1996-10-04 0:00 ` Joseph C Williams
1996-10-06 0:00 ` Wayne Hayes
1996-10-17 0:00 ` Ralf Tilch
1996-10-17 0:00 ` Ravi Sundaram
1996-10-22 0:00 ` shmuel
1996-10-22 0:00 ` Jim Carr
1996-10-24 0:00 ` hayim
1996-10-25 0:00 ` Ken Garlington
1996-10-25 0:00 ` Michel OLAGNON
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