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From: mark_lundquist@my-deja.com
Subject: Java packages (was Re: Do we need "Mission-Critical" software? Was: What to Do?
Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 06:45:23 GMT
Date: 2001-02-02T06:45:23+00:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <95dl22$9f5$1@nnrp1.deja.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 3A64A94C.F265050A@ftw.rsc.raytheon.com

In article <3A64A94C.F265050A@ftw.rsc.raytheon.com>,
  Wes Groleau <wwgrol@ftw.rsc.raytheon.com> wrote:
>
> > Java wanted to have better namespace control, so Java has packages.
> > These are better than C++ namespaces and more like Ada packages. But
> > the encapsulation construct in Java is still the "class", and in at
> > least two important senses (there are several) of the value
> > of "separation of interface and implementation", Java classes fall
> > short,
>
> The fact that in Java, "package" is so closely coupled
to "subdirectory"
> shows that the Java designers had little understanding of the
> _difference_ between interface and implementation, so how could they
> see any reason to _separate_ them?

Hmmm, I think that may be a misapprehension on your part...

You're thinking of the directory structure of class files, which
follows the package hierarchy.  But that's an implementation detail;
the semantics of Java packages in no way depends on it.

And anyway, finding fault with Java packages for not being an
encapsulation mechanism is missing the point -- Java packages are not
supposed to be an encapsulation mechanism, they are strictly a
namespace control mechanism.  The encapsulation mechanism is the class,
and it fulfills the essential aspect of encapsulation (by means of
private members)...

> More evidence is in the fact that
> every primitive type declaration basically describes an implementation
> where most type definitions in Ada (at least in well-written Ada)
> emphasize the abstractions more than the implementations.

Yes... as I pointed out in the previous post, Java classes don't
provide separation of interface and implementation in some important
senses (those that have to do with textual separation).

Mark Lundquist


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  reply	other threads:[~2001-02-02  6:45 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 184+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2000-12-31 16:09 What to Do? Petra Lynn Hofman
2000-12-31 16:58 ` Robert Dewar
2000-12-31 17:41   ` Ted Dennison
2001-01-01 15:24     ` Marin David Condic
2001-01-01 17:18       ` Robert Dewar
2001-01-02 15:05         ` Marin David Condic
2001-01-01 17:54       ` Ted Dennison
2001-01-02 15:14         ` Marin David Condic
2001-01-01 21:22       ` Lao Xiao Hai
2001-01-01 15:15   ` Marin David Condic
2000-12-31 18:06 ` E. Robert Tisdale
2000-12-31 21:07   ` tmoran
2001-01-01 16:10   ` Marin David Condic
2001-01-01 17:08     ` Ehud Lamm
2001-01-01 17:53       ` Do we need "Mission-Critical" software? Was: " Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-01-01 18:29         ` Ted Dennison
2001-01-01 20:25           ` Robert Dewar
2001-01-02 19:03             ` Ted Dennison
2001-01-02 20:22               ` Robert Dewar
2001-01-02 22:23               ` Florian Weimer
2001-01-02 22:27               ` Florian Weimer
2001-01-01 20:26           ` Robert Dewar
2001-01-02 19:05             ` Ted Dennison
2001-01-02 20:24               ` Robert Dewar
2001-01-02 22:53                 ` Ted Dennison
2001-01-03 18:39           ` Georg Bauhaus
2001-01-03 19:22             ` Ted Dennison
2001-01-04  1:18               ` Cesar Scarpini Rabak
2001-01-01 19:28         ` Ehud Lamm
2001-01-02 14:56         ` Cesar Scarpini Rabak
2001-01-03  3:32           ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-01-04  1:02             ` Cesar Scarpini Rabak
2001-01-04  3:53               ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-01-04 12:04               ` Marin David Condic
2001-01-04 13:48                 ` Marc A. Criley
2001-01-06 20:23                   ` Lao Xiao Hai
2001-01-04 17:09                 ` Ted Dennison
2001-01-04 20:30                   ` Kevin Rigotti
2001-01-05  9:15                     ` n_brunot
2001-01-05  9:57                       ` Tarjei T. Jensen
2001-01-05 10:41                         ` n_brunot
2001-01-05 13:41                       ` Robert Dewar
2001-01-05 14:15                         ` n_brunot
2001-01-06 17:17                           ` Robert Dewar
2001-01-08  8:51                             ` n_brunot
2001-01-09  4:00                               ` Robert Dewar
2001-01-09 10:20                                 ` n_brunot
2001-01-09 12:34                                   ` Karel Thoenissen
2001-01-09 14:18                                   ` Robert Dewar
2001-01-09 15:29                                     ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
2001-01-09 19:25                                     ` tmoran
2001-01-09 20:11                                     ` Florian Weimer
2001-01-09 14:20                                   ` Robert Dewar
2001-01-10  2:08                                 ` Keith Thompson
     [not found]                               ` <93e2d1$spv$1@ <3A5B054B.3CF03325@hello.nl>
2001-01-09 22:05                                 ` Simon Wright
2001-01-05 15:35                         ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
2001-01-05 19:20                           ` Object naming conventions (was: Do we need "Mission-Critical" software?) Kevin Rigotti
2001-01-06 17:30                             ` Robert Dewar
2001-01-06 17:24                           ` Do we need "Mission-Critical" software? Was: What to Do? Robert Dewar
2001-01-08  9:14                             ` n_brunot
2001-01-09  0:28                               ` Cesar Scarpini Rabak
2001-01-09  8:35                                 ` Florian Weimer
2001-01-10  2:21                                 ` mark_lundquist
2001-01-09  2:34                               ` DuckE
2001-01-09  4:12                               ` Robert Dewar
2001-01-09  9:12                                 ` n_brunot
2001-01-09 12:24                                   ` David Gillon
2001-01-09 12:58                                   ` Marc A. Criley
2001-01-09 13:42                                   ` Marin David Condic
2001-01-09 14:00                                     ` Marin David Condic
2001-01-12  0:21                                       ` Larry J. Elmore
2001-01-12  1:24                                         ` Al Christians
2001-01-12  5:19                                         ` Ken Garlington
2001-01-12 18:05                                         ` Marin David Condic
2001-01-09 14:27                                   ` Robert Dewar
2001-01-09 15:15                                     ` n_brunot
2001-01-09 19:41                                       ` Robert Dewar
2001-01-09 20:44                                         ` Florian Weimer
2001-01-10 12:22                                           ` Marin David Condic
2001-01-10 13:49                                             ` Ken Garlington
2001-01-10 20:41                                           ` Robert Dewar
2001-01-09 23:04                                         ` tmoran
2001-01-27 16:58                                           ` Alejandro R. Mosteo
2001-01-10 16:37                                         ` Jerry Petrey
2001-01-10 19:12                                           ` Georg Bauhaus
2001-01-11  1:43                                           ` Frank Manning
2001-01-09 16:12                                     ` n_brunot
2001-01-09 19:48                                       ` Robert Dewar
2001-01-09 20:43                                         ` Britt Snodgrass
2001-01-10 20:43                                           ` Robert Dewar
2001-01-11 13:41                                             ` JOVIAL (was Do we need "Mission-Critical" software?) Ken Garlington
2001-01-12 15:32                                               ` carr_tom
2001-01-12 16:58                                                 ` Ira D. Baxter
2001-01-22 23:18                                                 ` jls
2001-01-13 14:20                                               ` Ken Garlington
2001-01-10 10:41                                         ` Do we need "Mission-Critical" software? Was: What to Do? David Kristola
2001-01-10 13:44                                           ` Ken Garlington
2001-01-10 21:39                                           ` Robert Dewar
2001-01-10 11:47                                         ` n_brunot
2001-01-10 12:25                                           ` Marin David Condic
2001-01-10 21:36                                           ` Robert Dewar
2001-01-11 10:00                                             ` n_brunot
2001-01-12  0:42                                               ` Larry J. Elmore
2001-01-12  1:47                                                 ` Robert Dewar
2001-01-12 16:05                                               ` Georg Bauhaus
2001-01-16 19:52                                               ` Do we need any Dewar-bashing? Wes Groleau
2001-01-09 19:03                                     ` Do we need "Mission-Critical" software? Was: What to Do? dmitry6243
2001-01-09 19:51                                       ` Robert Dewar
2001-01-09 20:46                                         ` Florian Weimer
2001-01-09 21:57                                         ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-01-10  8:55                                         ` dmitry6243
2001-01-10 13:39                                           ` Pascal Obry
2001-01-11  8:58                                             ` dmitry6243
2001-01-11 21:01                                       ` mark_lundquist
2001-01-12 11:41                                         ` dmitry6243
2001-01-12 20:29                                           ` Subprogram types vs. "limited access" (was " mark_lundquist
2001-01-12 21:58                                             ` Randy Brukardt
2001-01-13  1:35                                               ` Robert Dewar
2001-01-13  1:20                                             ` Robert Dewar
2001-01-13 17:29                                             ` dmitry6243
2001-01-15 21:06                                               ` mark_lundquist
2001-01-16  0:32                                                 ` Robert Dewar
2001-01-16  2:57                                                   ` mark_lundquist
2001-01-16  5:47                                                     ` Robert Dewar
2001-01-16 17:47                                                       ` mark_lundquist
2001-01-16  9:12                                                 ` dmitry6243
2001-01-16 20:04                                         ` Wes Groleau
2001-02-02  6:45                                           ` mark_lundquist [this message]
2001-01-15 20:04                                   ` Lao Xiao Hai
2001-01-15 20:28                                     ` Jerry Petrey
2001-01-15 21:05                                       ` tmoran
2001-01-16  0:36                                         ` Robert Dewar
2001-01-16 13:23                                           ` Marin David Condic
2001-01-15 21:44                                     ` Tucker Taft
2001-01-15 22:26                                       ` BSCrawford
2001-01-23  2:19                                       ` Lao Xiao Hai
     [not found]                                         ` <94kkme$amg$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
2001-01-26 20:43                                           ` Lao Xiao Hai
2001-01-27  9:36                                             ` David Kristola
2001-01-27 21:54                                             ` Ken Garlington
2001-01-27 23:09                                               ` Pat Rogers
2001-01-28 22:30                                                 ` Ken Garlington
2001-01-09 13:37                                 ` Marin David Condic
2001-01-12  1:11                                   ` Larry J. Elmore
2001-01-09 14:52                               ` Larry Kilgallen
2001-01-10 10:26                                 ` Florian Weimer
2001-01-10 21:43                                   ` Robert Dewar
2001-01-11 18:51                               ` mark_lundquist
2001-01-11 20:11                     ` mark_lundquist
2001-01-12 11:49                       ` Kevin Rigotti
2001-01-12 19:19                         ` mark_lundquist
2001-01-16 20:20                           ` Wes Groleau
2001-01-04 16:48               ` Ted Dennison
2001-01-05 13:15                 ` Cesar Scarpini Rabak
2001-01-06 20:19               ` Lao Xiao Hai
2001-01-01 21:37       ` Lao Xiao Hai
2001-01-01 21:44         ` Ehud Lamm
2001-01-03  4:00         ` William Starner
2001-01-01 23:44       ` David Kristola
2001-01-02  0:41         ` Brian Rogoff
2001-01-02  3:14           ` tmoran
2001-01-02 20:35             ` David Kristola
2001-01-02 22:56               ` Ted Dennison
2001-01-02  7:38           ` Ehud Lamm
2001-01-02 15:08           ` Ted Dennison
2001-01-02 20:59           ` What to Do? Silly Valley JF Harrison
2001-01-02 23:22             ` William Dale
2001-01-06 20:45               ` Lao Xiao Hai
2001-01-08 18:15                 ` William Dale
2001-01-08 19:00                   ` Florian Weimer
2001-01-08 19:01                   ` Florian Weimer
2000-12-31 21:47 ` What to Do? Robert Love
2001-01-01 21:31   ` Robert Love
2001-01-10 22:06 ` km0762
2001-01-10 22:06 ` km0762
2001-01-11  0:00   ` James Rogers
2001-01-11  1:03     ` Al Christians
2001-01-29 16:09       ` spider_templar2
2001-01-11 13:57     ` John English
2001-01-11 18:00       ` William Dale
2001-01-12  0:27         ` John English
2001-01-12  2:57           ` David Botton
2001-01-13  3:34             ` Petra Lynn Hofman
2001-01-13  6:05               ` Robert Dewar
2001-01-13 13:52               ` Ken Garlington
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