Wrong SI unit specification

Wrong SI unit specification

[Christoph Grein]

In this group, where so many people are eager to correct anybody writing
ADA instead of Ada, it astonishes me so often that wrong SI unit names are
used.

Just a late quote:

> (1) On Solaris (>=2.6 or so, I think) the default operating system
>    tick is 10 mS.

mS is NOT Millisecond, it is Millisiemens, where Siemens (in former times also 
called Mho) is the inverse of Ohm.

>>> SI units are case-sensitive. <<<

Ms is Megasecond

Also kilo is not K, but k, so Km is wrong.

It just hurts a physicist like an Adavotee hurts seeing ADA.

Re: Wrong SI unit specification

[dmitry6243]

In article <mailman.980920852.21769.comp.lang.ada@ada.eu.org>,
  comp.lang.ada@ada.eu.org wrote:
> In this group, where so many people are eager to correct anybody
> writing ADA instead of Ada, it astonishes me so often that wrong SI
> unit names are used.
>
> Just a late quote:
>
> > (1) On Solaris (>=2.6 or so, I think) the default operating system
> >    tick is 10 mS.
>
> mS is NOT Millisecond, it is Millisiemens, where Siemens (in former
> times also called Mho) is the inverse of Ohm.

I believe, Millisiemens is also wrong. Correct would be millisiemens.

> >>> SI units are case-sensitive. <<<
>
> Ms is Megasecond
>
> Also kilo is not K, but k, so Km is wrong.

And ft is not foot, but femtoton (:-))

--
Regards,
Dmitry Kazakov


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Re: Wrong SI unit specification

[Christoph Grein]

dmitry6243@my-deja.com wrote:

> I believe, Millisiemens is also wrong. Correct would be millisiemens.

No, only the abbreviated form is specified.

> And ft is not foot, but femtoton (:-))

Again no, since ton (1 ton = 1Mg) is no official SI unit, so it can't get a 
prefix. :-b

Christoph

Re: Wrong SI unit specification

[Howard W. LUDWIG]

I would expect that a German would tend to capitalize the first letter
of unit names, because unit names are nouns and all nouns in German
begin with a capital letter.  Also, we are used to many of the unit
symbols having a capital letter, so why not the names of the units?

In German it is totally appropriate to start the unit names with a
capital letter.  However, in English and French the only approrpriate
times for capitalizing the first letter of a unit name is at the
beginning of a sentence or in the specific exception of degree Celsius
(or when using only upper-case text in which case all the letters are
capitalized).  This is seen in the SI brochure Section 5.2, rule #1,
both the official French version and the English translation.  Both
of these may be obtained from the BIPM web site at

    http://www.bipm.fr/pdf/

This is affirmed in decisions by the USA National Institute of
Standards and Technology (which, by USA law and regulation, the
authority to specify and interpret SI usage in the USA) and
other similar organizations.

What about in Ada?  Clearly unit symbols as identifiers do not
work in Ada due to the conflict in situations like ms, Ms, mS,
and MS (which are four distinct units) but interpreted by Ada
compilers as the same identifier due to the case-insignificance
required in Ada.  Thus, we spell out the names, which following
the custom of other identifiers are typically written first
letter upper case and other letters lower case (no underline
between prefix and root because the unit name is always one
word, except for "degree Celsius" and its multiples and sub-
multiples).  This practice seems to meet the spirit of the
rule, whose intent is to have unit names treated as any other
common noun in text.

Howard W. LUDWIG, Ph.D.

P.S. to Christoph:  I have had problems posting to newsgroups
from work, so if you do not see this reply on comp.lang.ada,
please feel free to forward it there for me or summarize it.

Christoph Grein wrote:

> dmitry6243@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> > I believe, Millisiemens is also wrong. Correct would be millisiemens.
>
> No, only the abbreviated form is specified.
>
> > And ft is not foot, but femtoton (:-))
>
> Again no, since ton (1 ton = 1Mg) is no official SI unit, so it can't get a
> prefix. :-b
>
> Christoph

Re: Wrong SI unit specification

[Georg Bauhaus]

Howard W. LUDWIG (howard.w.ludwig@lmco.com) wrote:
: I would expect that a German would tend to capitalize the first letter
: of unit names, because unit names are nouns and all nouns in German
: begin with a capital letter.

This assumption, though plausible, is just one, and another,
leading to the opposite conclusion, is living in a land of
bureaucratic correctness, Germany, will give you NO
permission to even think so :-)

: In German it is totally appropriate to start the unit names with a
: capital letter.

No, no, it is not, at least in a technical context.
You will hear some rather impolite remarks if you do.

Georg Bauhaus

Re: Wrong SI unit specification

[Gene Nygaard]

[-- Warning: decoded text below may be mangled, UTF-8 assumed --]
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1858 bytes --]

In article <95fapr$1li$1@news-hrz.uni-duisburg.de>,
  sb463ba@l1-hrz.uni-duisburg.de (Georg Bauhaus) wrote:
> Howard W. LUDWIG (howard.w.ludwig@lmco.com) wrote:
> : I would expect that a German would tend to capitalize the first
letter
> : of unit names, because unit names are nouns and all nouns in German
> : begin with a capital letter.
>
> This assumption, though plausible, is just one, and another,
> leading to the opposite conclusion, is living in a land of
> bureaucratic correctness, Germany, will give you NO
> permission to even think so :-)
>
> : In German it is totally appropriate to start the unit names with a
> : capital letter.
>
> No, no, it is not, at least in a technical context.
> You will hear some rather impolite remarks if you do.

Yes, capitalization is appropriate in German.  It is only the symbols
for SI units which are international in nature (even the same Greek or
Roman letters in languages which do not use either of those alphabets).

The spelled-out words follow the general rules of the language in which
they are used.  The units are capitalized in German, like other nouns.
They should not be capitalized in English or French.  But French
retains the accent mark in amp�re; English generally does not.
They can be spelled meter (American English, or Norwegian, for example)
or metre (most other English) or m�tre (French) or Meter (German), or
the Italians can spell the prefix chilo- (it still has the symbol k).

One result of these local variations is that in technical use, the use
of numerals and symbols all the time is preferred.  The symbols remain
the same in any language; a "Kilogram" is kg in German, and
a "kilojoule" is kJ in English; both are also the same in any other
language.

--
Gene Nygaard
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Gene_Nygaard/


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Re: Wrong SI unit specification

[Georg Bauhaus]

Gene Nygaard (gnygaard@nccray.com) wrote:

:  a "Kilogram" is kg in German, and
: a "kilojoule" is kJ in English; both are also the same in any other
: language.

Ah, yes, names and symbols. 
Thanks for the clarification.

Re: Wrong SI unit specification

[dmitry6243]

In article <963qgh$3vl$2@a1-hrz.uni-duisburg.de>,
  sb463ba@l1-hrz.uni-duisburg.de (Georg Bauhaus) wrote:
> Gene Nygaard (gnygaard@nccray.com) wrote:
>
> :  a "Kilogram" is kg in German, and
> : a "kilojoule" is kJ in English; both are also the same in any other
> : language.
>
> Ah, yes, names and symbols.
> Thanks for the clarification.

Yes the question is whether full SI names are symbols (as short ones
are).

To make the distinction obvios: Sekunde is the German noun for second.
As such it has an article, flexies etc. Now, from the German bureaucracy
point of view, what is the full SI name of s: "Sekunde" or "second"?

--
Regards,
Dmitry Kazakov


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Re: Wrong SI unit specification

[Howard W. LUDWIG]

I would expect that a German would tend to capitalize the first letter
of unit names, because unit names are nouns and all nouns in German
begin with a capital letter.  Also, we are used to many of the unit
symbols having a capital letter, so why not the names of the units?

In German it is totally appropriate to start the unit names with a
capital letter.  However, in English and French the only approrpriate
times for capitalizing the first letter of a unit name is at the
beginning of a sentence or in the specific exception of degree Celsius
(or when using only upper-case text in which case all the letters are
capitalized).  This is seen in the SI brochure Section 5.2, rule #1,
both the official French version and the English translation.  Both
of these may be obtained from the BIPM web site at

    http://www.bipm.fr/pdf/

This is affirmed in decisions by the USA National Institute of
Standards and Technology (which, by USA law and regulation, the
authority to specify and interpret SI usage in the USA) and
other similar organizations.

What about in Ada?  Clearly unit symbols as identifiers do not
work in Ada due to the conflict in situations like ms, Ms, mS,
and MS (which are four distinct units) but interpreted by Ada
compilers as the same identifier due to the case-insignificance
required in Ada.  Thus, we spell out the names, which following
the custom of other identifiers are typically written first
letter upper case and other letters lower case (no underline
between prefix and root because the unit name is always one
word, except for "degree Celsius" and its multiples and sub-
multiples).  This practice seems to meet the spirit of the
rule, whose intent is to have unit names treated as any other
common noun in text.

Howard W. LUDWIG, Ph.D.

P.S. to Christoph:  I have had problems posting to newsgroups
from work, so if you do not see this reply on comp.lang.ada,
please feel free to forward it there for me or summarize it.

Christoph Grein wrote:

> dmitry6243@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> > I believe, Millisiemens is also wrong. Correct would be millisiemens.
>
> No, only the abbreviated form is specified.
>
> > And ft is not foot, but femtoton (:-))
>
> Again no, since ton (1 ton = 1Mg) is no official SI unit, so it can't get a
> prefix. :-b
>
> Christoph

Re: Wrong SI unit specification

[Ian Wild]

"Howard W. LUDWIG" wrote:
> 
> (...the unit name is always one
> word, except for "degree Celsius" and its multiples and sub-
> multiples).

"kelvin"

Re: Wrong SI unit specification

[Gene Nygaard]

In article <3A7837E3.2DEC0689@cfmu.eurocontrol.be>,
  Ian Wild <ian@cfmu.eurocontrol.be> wrote:
> "Howard W. LUDWIG" wrote:
> >
> > (...the unit name is always one
> > word, except for "degree Celsius" and its multiples and sub-
> > multiples).
>
> "kelvin"

Irrelevant to the point being made.  Degrees Celsius are SI derived
units with a special name.  The units here are degrees; the adjective
identifying them is capitalized in English.  There is no particular
logic in why the adjectives would be treated different from the nouns,
but that is the conventional way in which it is done.

Kelvins are SI base units, written kelvins without an initial capital
in English except when it would normally be capitalized for another
reason, as the one I have at the beginning of this sentence.

--
Gene Nygaard
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Gene_Nygaard/


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Re: Wrong SI unit specification

[Singlespeeder]

"Christoph Grein" <christoph.grein@eurocopter.de> wrote in message
news:mailman.980946140.11902.comp.lang.ada@ada.eu.org...
> dmitry6243@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> > I believe, Millisiemens is also wrong. Correct would be millisiemens.
>
> No, only the abbreviated form is specified.
>
> > And ft is not foot, but femtoton (:-))
>
> Again no, since ton (1 ton = 1Mg) is no official SI unit, so it can't get
a
> prefix. :-b
>
> Christoph
>
>
Isn't the SI version a tonne and the (ahem) "proper" version the ton. Or am
I just getting mixed up.

Not having a prefix should not be confused with not having abbreviations
since so-called Imperial units predate the SI units, e.g cwt for
hundred-weight, which is of course 100lbs in the USA, but 112lbs here in the
UK.  Of historical note the British often had several versions of the same
measure; the founding fathers eventually settled on one version, whilst we
settled on another.

So what is the short-hand for cubit?

Nick

Re: Wrong SI unit specification

[Keith Thompson]

"Singlespeeder" <singlespeeder@btinternet.com> writes:
[...]
> So what is the short-hand for cubit?

About 11 inches.

-- 
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) kst@cts.com  <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
San Diego Supercomputer Center           <*>  <http://www.sdsc.edu/~kst>
MAKE MONEY FAST!!  DON'T FEED IT!!

Re: Wrong SI unit specification

[dmitry6243]

In article <mailman.980946140.11902.comp.lang.ada@ada.eu.org>,
  comp.lang.ada@ada.eu.org wrote:
> dmitry6243@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> > I believe, Millisiemens is also wrong. Correct would be
> > millisiemens.
>
> No, only the abbreviated form is specified.

http://www.bipm.fr/enus/3_SI/si-derived.html gives both the full
(siemens) and the abbreviated (S) forms.

> > And ft is not foot, but femtoton (:-))

Again no, since ton (1 ton = 1Mg) is no official SI unit, so it can't
get a prefix. :-b

Yes, with or without a prefix it is not a SI unit. However metric ton
is often used with a SI prefix (kiloton, megaton). A nasty consequence
is that ft = 10e-12 kg = ng (:-))

--
Regards,
Dmitry Kazakov


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