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From: mark_lundquist@my-deja.com
Subject: Re: Do we need "Mission-Critical" software? Was: What to Do?
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 21:01:25 GMT
Date: 2001-01-11T21:01:25+00:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <93l6ut$pvf$1@nnrp1.deja.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 93fnao$49u$1@nnrp1.deja.com

In article <93fnao$49u$1@nnrp1.deja.com>,
  dmitry6243@my-deja.com wrote:

> To make a language popular,
> one need advertising. It must be as insolent as "Ada is an extension
of
> C++ especially designed for Windows", then it works.

Of course this is hyperbole, but I see your point.

I think a good case could be made that Ada is Java++...

Ada runs on the JVM.

Java believes in strong static typing.  That's a step in the right
direction, but they kept the impoverished type system of C++.  Ada has
a type system that's not only strong, but rich as well.  To start with,
you can have subtypes, and you have the ability to create user-defined
primitive types, etc.

Java wanted to get rid of pointer-related bugs.  Unfortunately, you
kind of have to have pointers!  So Java is a by-reference language,
hiding the pointer-ness of everything so that it's impossible to do
math on pointers.  By-reference languages have their own problems,
though.  Ada solves the pointer arithmetic problems by distinguishing
between pointers and addresses, and by defining pointers to be
something other than scalar types.

Java figured out that truth value has nothing to do with integer math,
so it got a Boolean type like Ada's.

Java believes that support for concurrency belongs in the language, not
just some random OS library.  Java is right about that!  They just
didn't think it through all the way and botched the details.

Java wanted to have better namespace control, so Java has packages.
These are better than C++ namespaces and more like Ada packages. But
the encapsulation construct in Java is still the "class", and in at
least two important senses (there are several) of the value
of "separation of interface and implementation", Java classes fall
short, because method bodies are defined in the class declaration.
(And no, Java "interface"s are not the answer to this).

Java's arrays are bounds-checked.  That's good.  Ada has a more
generalized system of range constraints that is involved with both
arrays and the subtyping system.  This allows for automated range
assertions beyond just for array accesses, and makes it possible for
the compiler to eliminate many run-time array bounds checks.

All these things can be viewed either negatively as half-measures, or
positively as steps in the right direction.  The idea is that Java
incorporated all these elements for good reasons, and the fuller
support that Ada gives them is better.

So that's one way to spin it, what do you think?

-- mark



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  parent reply	other threads:[~2001-01-11 21:01 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 184+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2000-12-31 16:09 What to Do? Petra Lynn Hofman
2000-12-31 16:58 ` Robert Dewar
2000-12-31 17:41   ` Ted Dennison
2001-01-01 15:24     ` Marin David Condic
2001-01-01 17:18       ` Robert Dewar
2001-01-02 15:05         ` Marin David Condic
2001-01-01 17:54       ` Ted Dennison
2001-01-02 15:14         ` Marin David Condic
2001-01-01 21:22       ` Lao Xiao Hai
2001-01-01 15:15   ` Marin David Condic
2000-12-31 18:06 ` E. Robert Tisdale
2000-12-31 21:07   ` tmoran
2001-01-01 16:10   ` Marin David Condic
2001-01-01 17:08     ` Ehud Lamm
2001-01-01 17:53       ` Do we need "Mission-Critical" software? Was: " Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-01-01 18:29         ` Ted Dennison
2001-01-01 20:25           ` Robert Dewar
2001-01-02 19:03             ` Ted Dennison
2001-01-02 20:22               ` Robert Dewar
2001-01-02 22:23               ` Florian Weimer
2001-01-02 22:27               ` Florian Weimer
2001-01-01 20:26           ` Robert Dewar
2001-01-02 19:05             ` Ted Dennison
2001-01-02 20:24               ` Robert Dewar
2001-01-02 22:53                 ` Ted Dennison
2001-01-03 18:39           ` Georg Bauhaus
2001-01-03 19:22             ` Ted Dennison
2001-01-04  1:18               ` Cesar Scarpini Rabak
2001-01-01 19:28         ` Ehud Lamm
2001-01-02 14:56         ` Cesar Scarpini Rabak
2001-01-03  3:32           ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-01-04  1:02             ` Cesar Scarpini Rabak
2001-01-04  3:53               ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-01-04 12:04               ` Marin David Condic
2001-01-04 13:48                 ` Marc A. Criley
2001-01-06 20:23                   ` Lao Xiao Hai
2001-01-04 17:09                 ` Ted Dennison
2001-01-04 20:30                   ` Kevin Rigotti
2001-01-05  9:15                     ` n_brunot
2001-01-05  9:57                       ` Tarjei T. Jensen
2001-01-05 10:41                         ` n_brunot
2001-01-05 13:41                       ` Robert Dewar
2001-01-05 14:15                         ` n_brunot
2001-01-06 17:17                           ` Robert Dewar
2001-01-08  8:51                             ` n_brunot
2001-01-09  4:00                               ` Robert Dewar
2001-01-09 10:20                                 ` n_brunot
2001-01-09 12:34                                   ` Karel Thoenissen
2001-01-09 14:18                                   ` Robert Dewar
2001-01-09 15:29                                     ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
2001-01-09 19:25                                     ` tmoran
2001-01-09 20:11                                     ` Florian Weimer
2001-01-09 14:20                                   ` Robert Dewar
2001-01-10  2:08                                 ` Keith Thompson
     [not found]                               ` <93e2d1$spv$1@ <3A5B054B.3CF03325@hello.nl>
2001-01-09 22:05                                 ` Simon Wright
2001-01-05 15:35                         ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
2001-01-05 19:20                           ` Object naming conventions (was: Do we need "Mission-Critical" software?) Kevin Rigotti
2001-01-06 17:30                             ` Robert Dewar
2001-01-06 17:24                           ` Do we need "Mission-Critical" software? Was: What to Do? Robert Dewar
2001-01-08  9:14                             ` n_brunot
2001-01-09  0:28                               ` Cesar Scarpini Rabak
2001-01-09  8:35                                 ` Florian Weimer
2001-01-10  2:21                                 ` mark_lundquist
2001-01-09  2:34                               ` DuckE
2001-01-09  4:12                               ` Robert Dewar
2001-01-09  9:12                                 ` n_brunot
2001-01-09 12:24                                   ` David Gillon
2001-01-09 12:58                                   ` Marc A. Criley
2001-01-09 13:42                                   ` Marin David Condic
2001-01-09 14:00                                     ` Marin David Condic
2001-01-12  0:21                                       ` Larry J. Elmore
2001-01-12  1:24                                         ` Al Christians
2001-01-12  5:19                                         ` Ken Garlington
2001-01-12 18:05                                         ` Marin David Condic
2001-01-09 14:27                                   ` Robert Dewar
2001-01-09 15:15                                     ` n_brunot
2001-01-09 19:41                                       ` Robert Dewar
2001-01-09 20:44                                         ` Florian Weimer
2001-01-10 12:22                                           ` Marin David Condic
2001-01-10 13:49                                             ` Ken Garlington
2001-01-10 20:41                                           ` Robert Dewar
2001-01-09 23:04                                         ` tmoran
2001-01-27 16:58                                           ` Alejandro R. Mosteo
2001-01-10 16:37                                         ` Jerry Petrey
2001-01-10 19:12                                           ` Georg Bauhaus
2001-01-11  1:43                                           ` Frank Manning
2001-01-09 16:12                                     ` n_brunot
2001-01-09 19:48                                       ` Robert Dewar
2001-01-09 20:43                                         ` Britt Snodgrass
2001-01-10 20:43                                           ` Robert Dewar
2001-01-11 13:41                                             ` JOVIAL (was Do we need "Mission-Critical" software?) Ken Garlington
2001-01-12 15:32                                               ` carr_tom
2001-01-12 16:58                                                 ` Ira D. Baxter
2001-01-22 23:18                                                 ` jls
2001-01-13 14:20                                               ` Ken Garlington
2001-01-10 10:41                                         ` Do we need "Mission-Critical" software? Was: What to Do? David Kristola
2001-01-10 13:44                                           ` Ken Garlington
2001-01-10 21:39                                           ` Robert Dewar
2001-01-10 11:47                                         ` n_brunot
2001-01-10 12:25                                           ` Marin David Condic
2001-01-10 21:36                                           ` Robert Dewar
2001-01-11 10:00                                             ` n_brunot
2001-01-12  0:42                                               ` Larry J. Elmore
2001-01-12  1:47                                                 ` Robert Dewar
2001-01-12 16:05                                               ` Georg Bauhaus
2001-01-16 19:52                                               ` Do we need any Dewar-bashing? Wes Groleau
2001-01-09 19:03                                     ` Do we need "Mission-Critical" software? Was: What to Do? dmitry6243
2001-01-09 19:51                                       ` Robert Dewar
2001-01-09 20:46                                         ` Florian Weimer
2001-01-09 21:57                                         ` Warren W. Gay VE3WWG
2001-01-10  8:55                                         ` dmitry6243
2001-01-10 13:39                                           ` Pascal Obry
2001-01-11  8:58                                             ` dmitry6243
2001-01-11 21:01                                       ` mark_lundquist [this message]
2001-01-12 11:41                                         ` dmitry6243
2001-01-12 20:29                                           ` Subprogram types vs. "limited access" (was " mark_lundquist
2001-01-12 21:58                                             ` Randy Brukardt
2001-01-13  1:35                                               ` Robert Dewar
2001-01-13  1:20                                             ` Robert Dewar
2001-01-13 17:29                                             ` dmitry6243
2001-01-15 21:06                                               ` mark_lundquist
2001-01-16  0:32                                                 ` Robert Dewar
2001-01-16  2:57                                                   ` mark_lundquist
2001-01-16  5:47                                                     ` Robert Dewar
2001-01-16 17:47                                                       ` mark_lundquist
2001-01-16  9:12                                                 ` dmitry6243
2001-01-16 20:04                                         ` Wes Groleau
2001-02-02  6:45                                           ` Java packages (was " mark_lundquist
2001-01-15 20:04                                   ` Lao Xiao Hai
2001-01-15 20:28                                     ` Jerry Petrey
2001-01-15 21:05                                       ` tmoran
2001-01-16  0:36                                         ` Robert Dewar
2001-01-16 13:23                                           ` Marin David Condic
2001-01-15 21:44                                     ` Tucker Taft
2001-01-15 22:26                                       ` BSCrawford
2001-01-23  2:19                                       ` Lao Xiao Hai
     [not found]                                         ` <94kkme$amg$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
2001-01-26 20:43                                           ` Lao Xiao Hai
2001-01-27  9:36                                             ` David Kristola
2001-01-27 21:54                                             ` Ken Garlington
2001-01-27 23:09                                               ` Pat Rogers
2001-01-28 22:30                                                 ` Ken Garlington
2001-01-09 13:37                                 ` Marin David Condic
2001-01-12  1:11                                   ` Larry J. Elmore
2001-01-09 14:52                               ` Larry Kilgallen
2001-01-10 10:26                                 ` Florian Weimer
2001-01-10 21:43                                   ` Robert Dewar
2001-01-11 18:51                               ` mark_lundquist
2001-01-11 20:11                     ` mark_lundquist
2001-01-12 11:49                       ` Kevin Rigotti
2001-01-12 19:19                         ` mark_lundquist
2001-01-16 20:20                           ` Wes Groleau
2001-01-04 16:48               ` Ted Dennison
2001-01-05 13:15                 ` Cesar Scarpini Rabak
2001-01-06 20:19               ` Lao Xiao Hai
2001-01-01 21:37       ` Lao Xiao Hai
2001-01-01 21:44         ` Ehud Lamm
2001-01-03  4:00         ` William Starner
2001-01-01 23:44       ` David Kristola
2001-01-02  0:41         ` Brian Rogoff
2001-01-02  3:14           ` tmoran
2001-01-02 20:35             ` David Kristola
2001-01-02 22:56               ` Ted Dennison
2001-01-02  7:38           ` Ehud Lamm
2001-01-02 15:08           ` Ted Dennison
2001-01-02 20:59           ` What to Do? Silly Valley JF Harrison
2001-01-02 23:22             ` William Dale
2001-01-06 20:45               ` Lao Xiao Hai
2001-01-08 18:15                 ` William Dale
2001-01-08 19:00                   ` Florian Weimer
2001-01-08 19:01                   ` Florian Weimer
2000-12-31 21:47 ` What to Do? Robert Love
2001-01-01 21:31   ` Robert Love
2001-01-10 22:06 ` km0762
2001-01-10 22:06 ` km0762
2001-01-11  0:00   ` James Rogers
2001-01-11  1:03     ` Al Christians
2001-01-29 16:09       ` spider_templar2
2001-01-11 13:57     ` John English
2001-01-11 18:00       ` William Dale
2001-01-12  0:27         ` John English
2001-01-12  2:57           ` David Botton
2001-01-13  3:34             ` Petra Lynn Hofman
2001-01-13  6:05               ` Robert Dewar
2001-01-13 13:52               ` Ken Garlington
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