Design discussion for Ada "package manager" (online library)

Design discussion for Ada "package manager" (online library)

[Shark8]

We've started to disscuss the design of an Ada project-manager. We'd love more involvement from the community, as I think thiss could be a chance to really show off Ada's strengths.

https://github.com/mosteo/alire/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue

Re: Design discussion for Ada "package manager" (online library)

[Randy Brukardt]

"Shark8" <onewingedshark@gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:b27acb57-59dc-49f6-afa0-f13ebc9a7462@googlegroups.com...
> We've started to disscuss the design of an Ada project-manager. We'd love 
> more involvement from the community, as I think thiss could be a chance to 
> really show off Ada's strengths.
>
> https://github.com/mosteo/alire/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue

I think I said more than enough on the topic here, and I need to do more 
work and less community time. So I won't be joining your discussion now. 
Hopefully someone will package up some of my thoughts for your discussion.

                                        Randy.

Re: Design discussion for Ada "package manager" (online library)

[Tero Koskinen]

19.2.2016, 4.11, Randy Brukardt wrote:
> "Shark8" <onewingedshark@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:b27acb57-59dc-49f6-afa0-f13ebc9a7462@googlegroups.com...
>> We've started to disscuss the design of an Ada project-manager. We'd love
>> more involvement from the community, as I think thiss could be a chance to
>> really show off Ada's strengths.
>>
>> https://github.com/mosteo/alire/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue
>
> I think I said more than enough on the topic here, and I need to do more
> work and less community time. So I won't be joining your discussion now.
> Hopefully someone will package up some of my thoughts for your discussion.
>
>                                          Randy.

I think one "problem" Ada community has, is the endless discussions 
about what should be done.

I like the "Shut up and hack" mentality of (Open)BSD and how *BSD people 
do stuff instead of just discussing about it.

For example, check Synth, package manager for *BSDs, written by John 
Marino using Ada:
https://github.com/jrmarino/synth

Yours,
  Tero

Re: Design discussion for Ada "package manager" (online library)

[Shark8]

While I agree that the Ada community tends to be a bit more deliberative, there are some serious problems with the "shut up and hack" mindset.

One of my former co-workers had the ability to do VERY quick coding, very useful for the "we need a [temporary] fix NOW!"-solutions... but even though he was quick, he often applied superficial 'solutions', like suggesting that CSV could be handled with string-splitting on commas.

For a community that generally wants to "do the right thing" (real software engineering), I think it's a good thing to try to find out what the right thing IS.

Re: Design discussion for Ada "package manager" (online library)

[Olivier Henley]

On Friday, February 19, 2016 at 12:18:17 PM UTC-5, Tero Koskinen wrote:

> I think one "problem" Ada community has, is the endless discussions 
> about what should be done.

One week of discussion for a community plan/effort is not what I call endless.   

> I like the "Shut up and hack" mentality of (Open)BSD and how *BSD people 
> do stuff instead of just discussing about it.

The hacking culture brought us exactly where we are; A computer driven society plagued with bugs. 

-All my 'latest generation smartphones' suffered crazy episodes from time to time.
-The tech pipeline at my job is choking on me 3-4 times a day minimum.
-At home, my brand new installed debian box explodes at least once every two weeks.
-When my gnoga driven website behaves weird the problem ALWAYS comes from the client side (JS, C++ and friends) 

What about "Death to hacking! Design then program."?

> For example, check Synth, package manager for *BSDs, written by John 
> Marino using Ada:
> https://github.com/jrmarino/synth

1. Check the diagrams at the end of the readme... it makes up a design.
2. To me he looks more like a "navy seal" of programming than a "baroque proser using a computer".  https://www.linkedin.com/in/marinojr

my two cents.

Re: Design discussion for Ada "package manager" (online library)

[Jeffrey R. Carter]

On 02/19/2016 05:19 PM, Olivier Henley wrote:
> On Friday, February 19, 2016 at 12:18:17 PM UTC-5, Tero Koskinen wrote:
> 
>> I like the "Shut up and hack" mentality of (Open)BSD and how *BSD people 
>> do stuff instead of just discussing about it.
> 
> The hacking culture brought us exactly where we are; A computer driven society plagued with bugs.

I'm not a fan of "Shut up and hack", either, but I think one can make a point
for "Shut up and design."

> 1. Check the diagrams at the end of the readme... it makes up a design.

This seems like an example of SUAD.

-- 
Jeff Carter
"You empty-headed animal-food-trough wiper."
Monty Python & the Holy Grail
04

Re: Design discussion for Ada "package manager" (online library)

[Olivier Henley]

On Friday, February 19, 2016 at 12:18:17 PM UTC-5, Tero Koskinen wrote:
> https://github.com/jrmarino/synth
> 
> Yours,
>   Tero

btw, thx for the reference.

Re: Design discussion for Ada "package manager" (online library)

[Georg Bauhaus]

On 20.02.16 01:19, Olivier Henley wrote:
> What about "Death to hacking! Design then program."?

Balancing all of this is what makes consulting work (in many senses).


-- 
"HOTDOGS ARE NOT BOOKMARKS"
Springfield Elementary teaching staff

Re: Design discussion for Ada "package manager" (online library)

[Alejandro R. Mosteo]

On 19/02/16 18:18, Tero Koskinen wrote:
> 19.2.2016, 4.11, Randy Brukardt wrote:
>> "Shark8" <onewingedshark@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:b27acb57-59dc-49f6-afa0-f13ebc9a7462@googlegroups.com...
>>> We've started to disscuss the design of an Ada project-manager. We'd
>>> love
>>> more involvement from the community, as I think thiss could be a
>>> chance to
>>> really show off Ada's strengths.
>>>
>>> https://github.com/mosteo/alire/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue
>>
>> I think I said more than enough on the topic here, and I need to do more
>> work and less community time. So I won't be joining your discussion now.
>> Hopefully someone will package up some of my thoughts for your
>> discussion.
>>
>>                                          Randy.
>
> I think one "problem" Ada community has, is the endless discussions
> about what should be done.
>
> I like the "Shut up and hack" mentality of (Open)BSD and how *BSD people
> do stuff instead of just discussing about it.

Linus dixit: https://lkml.org/lkml/2000/8/25/132

> For example, check Synth, package manager for *BSDs, written by John
> Marino using Ada:
> https://github.com/jrmarino/synth

That project looks great, thanks for the pointer.

>
> Yours,
>   Tero
>
>