* Where is the Ada for LINUX Team site? @ 2000-11-19 0:00 Alec Hill 2000-11-20 1:41 ` Juergen Pfeifer 0 siblings, 1 reply; 22+ messages in thread From: Alec Hill @ 2000-11-19 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) I have just tried to visit this extremely useful site (www.gnuada.org/alt.html) only to encounter the message: "This site is closed. Please look at the official places for the GNAT tarfiles." Does anyone know what has happened to it? Alec Hill ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 22+ messages in thread
* Re: Where is the Ada for LINUX Team site? 2000-11-19 0:00 Where is the Ada for LINUX Team site? Alec Hill @ 2000-11-20 1:41 ` Juergen Pfeifer 2000-11-20 2:27 ` Robert Dewar ` (2 more replies) 0 siblings, 3 replies; 22+ messages in thread From: Juergen Pfeifer @ 2000-11-20 1:41 UTC (permalink / raw) > I have just tried to visit this extremely useful site > (www.gnuada.org/alt.html) only to encounter the message: > > "This site is closed. Please look at the official places for the GNAT > tarfiles." > > Does anyone know what has happened to it? > Yes, the site is closed and it's uncertain whether or not I'll continue to contribute. This doesn't mean that other people may take over the site and continue to operate it. As you all may know, I did all the www.gnuada.org stuff in my spare time as a pure hobbyist activity. Packaging is boring stuff, but I was motivated by the overwhelmingly positive feedback. There obviously is a need for out-of-the-box installation of GNAT on GNU/Linux. A lot of students used it, and that was the biggest motivation for me to help these guys to discover Ada on GNU/Linux without installation pain. But it has been brought to my attention that ACT and the FSF see major deficiencies in the ALT packages. All these discussions have been done behind my back without involving me. There seems to be an ongoing discussion of GNAT packaging issues where ALT is not involved any my mail offering to transfer our packaging knowledge remained unanswered. As I'm doing this as hobby the least thing I'm interested in is politics, flaming and FUD. Withdrawing my contribution is the easiest way for me to step out of the fireline. It has also the advantage that people can now start from scratch without a need to take care of an existing and established packaging scheme. I'll focus on other projects in the meantime. Sorry for the bad news. J�rgen ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 22+ messages in thread
* Re: Where is the Ada for LINUX Team site? 2000-11-20 1:41 ` Juergen Pfeifer @ 2000-11-20 2:27 ` Robert Dewar 2000-11-20 0:00 ` Florian Weimer ` (3 more replies) 2000-11-20 3:32 ` Brian Rogoff 2000-11-21 0:05 ` Juergen Pfeifer 2 siblings, 4 replies; 22+ messages in thread From: Robert Dewar @ 2000-11-20 2:27 UTC (permalink / raw) In article <8v9vgk$v8j$06$1@news.t-online.com>, "Juergen Pfeifer" <juergen.pfeifer@gmx.net> wrote: > But it has been brought to my attention that ACT and the FSF > see major deficiencies in the ALT packages. A little background here. Richard Stallman questioned why ACT was not providing RPM's directly. He worried that our failure to provide RPM's meant we were neglecting the needs of GNU/Linux. I explained that there were two problems. 1) There were some technical problems with shared libraries. The ALT folks felt that they were not severe enough, and decided that shared libraries were valuable enough not to worry too much about the problems. 2) Precise Ada compliance requires the provision of the alternative FSU threads package, since Linux threads are not Annex D compliant. The ALT folks decided that for simple use, that did not matter. THe current status is that problem 1) has now been solved in the latest GNAT technology, but problem 2) remains. I think here at ACT we quite understand decision 2) above, and it seems just fine to provide these RPM's with limited capability for the purposes for which they were being provided, but I explained to Richard that we need at ACT to be distributing a fully compliant version. We will study the issues of providing RPM's with both threads packages, and we think it can probably be done for the next release of GNAT now that problem 1) is solved (problem 1 was a show stopper at previous points for ACT provision of RPM's). But to be absolutely clear, we always felt that the RPM's provided at the ALT site have been very useful to a lot of people, and have always pointed users of the public version of GNAT in that direction. I know of no post from the FSF that could even possibly be construed as saying that there were major deficiencies in the ALT packaging. I have to wonder if Juergen actually read the thread in question. If anyone was being criticized in this thread it was ACT for *not* providing these RPM's :-) > All these discussions have been done behind my back > without involving me. There seems to be an ongoing discussion > of GNAT packaging issues where ALT is not involved These discussions were on the main gnu mailing list, open to participation by any interested parties (this is a very large list, with lots of people being involved), "behind my back" is a bit of an odd description of discussions happening on the GNU list, given you decided not to participate in this list, which is the main place that issues of this kind are discussed. > any my mail offering to transfer our packaging > knowledge remained unanswered. Well I must say I am a bit non-plussed by this! I received a friendly message from Juergen on last Monday morning. I have not answered yet, because last week was SigAda, and a lot of email is backed up from being away. In that message he offers to help us with RPM technology, and indeed that will be very helpful. > As I'm doing this as hobby the least thing I'm interested in > is politics, flaming and FUD. I really did not see anything vaguely like politics, flaming or FUD on the list, so I am a bit of a loss here. > Withdrawing my contribution is the easiest way for me to step > out of the fireline. Well of course anyone can withdraw their contribution, but I definitely fail to see any fireline here (anyone who likes is welcome to checkout the threads in question -- actually I think it is quite healthy that active discussions of GNAT and how it should be handled in the framework of the standard gnu/gcc distributions is very healthy!) Juergen, I think you should read the thread in question, and I think you will find that it has been mischaracterized to you! > It has also the advantage that people can now start from > scratch without a need to take care of an existing and > established packaging scheme. I am not sure of what "take care of" here means. Most certainly we won't start from scratch in the sense of ignoring what has already been done. At the same time, we do need to figure out how to deal with the issue of the multiple thread libraries. Although most people couldn't care less, we care that the Ada compiler that is part of the GNU/Linux system should indeed be fully conforming to the standard. Hopefully once the transition to the new public tree (which will of course be 2.9x/3.0 based) is complete, many of these problems will disappear. We are also hoping that Linux Threads can be fixed to solve the scheduling problems Robert Dewar Ada Core Technologies Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 22+ messages in thread
* Re: Where is the Ada for LINUX Team site? 2000-11-20 2:27 ` Robert Dewar @ 2000-11-20 0:00 ` Florian Weimer 2000-11-20 0:00 ` David Gressett ` (2 subsequent siblings) 3 siblings, 0 replies; 22+ messages in thread From: Florian Weimer @ 2000-11-20 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) Robert Dewar <robert_dewar@my-deja.com> writes: > We are also hoping that Linux Threads can be fixed to solve the > scheduling problems Ulrich Drepper has indicated that the GNU libc thread support for the Linux kernel is likely to get rewritten (see <m3snp2ruas.fsf@otr.mynet.cygnus.com>). ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 22+ messages in thread
* Re: Where is the Ada for LINUX Team site? 2000-11-20 2:27 ` Robert Dewar 2000-11-20 0:00 ` Florian Weimer @ 2000-11-20 0:00 ` David Gressett 2000-11-21 1:52 ` Robert Dewar 2000-11-20 0:00 ` David Starner 2000-11-20 0:00 ` Ted Dennison 3 siblings, 1 reply; 22+ messages in thread From: David Gressett @ 2000-11-20 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) On Mon, 20 Nov 2000 02:27:36 GMT, Robert Dewar <robert_dewar@my-deja.com> wrote: --- snip --- > 1) There were some technical problems with shared libraries. > The ALT folks felt that they were not severe enough, and > decided that shared libraries were valuable enough not to > worry too much about the problems. > > 2) Precise Ada compliance requires the provision of the > alternative FSU threads package, since Linux threads are > not Annex D compliant. The ALT folks decided that for > simple use, that did not matter. > >THe current status is that problem 1) has now been solved in >the latest GNAT technology, but problem 2) remains. > What exactly is problem 1)? Is problem 1) fixable in 3.13p, or do we need to wait for 3.14p? For problem 2), how simple is simple?, i.e., what kind of stuff breaks when run with Linux threads? >I think here at ACT we quite understand decision 2) above, and >it seems just fine to provide these RPM's with limited >capability for the purposes for which they were being provided, >but I explained to Richard that we need at ACT to be >distributing a fully compliant version. > >We will study the issues of providing RPM's with both >threads packages, and we think it can probably be done for >the next release of GNAT now that problem 1) is solved (problem >1 was a show stopper at previous points for ACT provision of >RPM's). --- snip --- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 22+ messages in thread
* Re: Where is the Ada for LINUX Team site? 2000-11-20 0:00 ` David Gressett @ 2000-11-21 1:52 ` Robert Dewar 0 siblings, 0 replies; 22+ messages in thread From: Robert Dewar @ 2000-11-21 1:52 UTC (permalink / raw) In article <9t5j1ts2m031nfi5g9lkj1837ttv6lhvm9@4ax.com>, David Gressett <gressett@iglobal.net> wrote: > For problem 2), how simple is simple?, i.e., what kind of > stuff breaks when run with Linux threads? All we can say is that GNAT is strictly conforming with Annex D of the RM when FSU threads are used, and the semantics in this case can be determined from the RM. If Linux threads are used, you get standard Linux threads dispatching behavior, and you should consult the relevant Linux documentation to understand exactly what that means. For sure, the Linux threads are NOT Annex D compliant, but we do not attempt to exactly characterize the disparity. We do not expect this situation to change for the 3.14 release, so if you need exact RM compliance, you must use FSU threads. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 22+ messages in thread
* Re: Where is the Ada for LINUX Team site? 2000-11-20 2:27 ` Robert Dewar 2000-11-20 0:00 ` Florian Weimer 2000-11-20 0:00 ` David Gressett @ 2000-11-20 0:00 ` David Starner 2000-11-20 0:00 ` Ted Dennison 3 siblings, 0 replies; 22+ messages in thread From: David Starner @ 2000-11-20 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) On Mon, 20 Nov 2000 02:27:36 GMT, Robert Dewar wrote: >In article <8v9vgk$v8j$06$1@news.t-online.com>, > "Juergen Pfeifer" <juergen.pfeifer@gmx.net> wrote: > >> All these discussions have been done behind my back >> without involving me. There seems to be an ongoing discussion >> of GNAT packaging issues where ALT is not involved > >These discussions were on the main gnu mailing list, open to >participation by any interested parties (this is a very large >list, with lots of people being involved), "behind my back" >is a bit of an odd description of discussions happening on >the GNU list, given you decided not to participate in this >list, which is the main place that issues of this kind are >discussed. This discussion was done on gcc@gcc.gnu.org, a public mailing list with a public archive at gcc.gnu.org. Most of the converstation was explaining to Richard Stallman how GNAT was packaged and why, during which RMS argued (from a philosphical/politcal standpoint) that GNAT should be better integrated into the GNU system and not need ALT to package it for GNU. As a disintrested bystander, I found the whole converstation irrelevant. RMS was not familar with the Ada for Linux Team, nor was he really familar with GNAT. Robert Dewar, the main person in the discussion who was familar with ALT and capable of changing something, expressed no desire to do so (beyond the long standing goal of getting GNAT in GCC 3.0, of course*). In any case, whether or not ALT's package of GNAT is needed, ALT has done a lot of helpful work on other Ada packages that were not even vaguely discussed, and is still useful and will still be useful if someone else (the distributers, hopefully) take over the building of GNAT rpms. [Is it just me, or does anyone else find it amusing that this thread, in a newsgroup so senstive over Ada in all caps, has a subject referering to LINUX instead of Linux?] * I know this is an oversimplification, okay? I think most of the relevant people understand what I mean, and anyone who wants to know the whole details of GNAT and GCC 3.0 are welcome to look at the recent (last couple months) archives of gcc@gcc.gnu.org at http://gcc.gnu.org -- David Starner - dstarner98@aasaa.ofe.org http://dvdeug.dhis.org As centuries of pulp novels and late-night Christian broadcasting have taught us, anything we don't understand can be used for the purposes of Evil. -- Kenneth Hite, Suppressed Transmissions ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 22+ messages in thread
* Re: Where is the Ada for LINUX Team site? 2000-11-20 2:27 ` Robert Dewar ` (2 preceding siblings ...) 2000-11-20 0:00 ` David Starner @ 2000-11-20 0:00 ` Ted Dennison 2000-11-20 0:00 ` Vincent Marciante ` (2 more replies) 3 siblings, 3 replies; 22+ messages in thread From: Ted Dennison @ 2000-11-20 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) In article <8va26k$bqb$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, Robert Dewar <robert_dewar@my-deja.com> wrote: > These discussions were on the main gnu mailing list, open to > participation by any interested parties (this is a very large Out of curiosity, exactly which list was it? I was unable to find any such discussion in the archives of gnu-misc-discuss. I can't find mention of any more general or "main" list on the gnu website (just finding gnu-misc-discuss was challenge enough). -- T.E.D. http://www.telepath.com/~dennison/Ted/TED.html Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 22+ messages in thread
* Re: Where is the Ada for LINUX Team site? 2000-11-20 0:00 ` Ted Dennison @ 2000-11-20 0:00 ` Vincent Marciante 2000-11-20 0:00 ` David Starner 2000-11-21 1:42 ` Robert Dewar 2 siblings, 0 replies; 22+ messages in thread From: Vincent Marciante @ 2000-11-20 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) Ted Dennison wrote: > > In article <8va26k$bqb$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, > Robert Dewar <robert_dewar@my-deja.com> wrote: > > > These discussions were on the main gnu mailing list, open to > > participation by any interested parties (this is a very large > > Out of curiosity, exactly which list was it? I was unable to find any > such discussion in the archives of gnu-misc-discuss. I can't find > mention of any more general or "main" list on the gnu website (just > finding gnu-misc-discuss was challenge enough). > Its in http://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc/ and the subject is "Re: Why not gnat Ada in gcc?" ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 22+ messages in thread
* Re: Where is the Ada for LINUX Team site? 2000-11-20 0:00 ` Ted Dennison 2000-11-20 0:00 ` Vincent Marciante @ 2000-11-20 0:00 ` David Starner 2000-11-21 1:42 ` Robert Dewar 2 siblings, 0 replies; 22+ messages in thread From: David Starner @ 2000-11-20 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) On Mon, 20 Nov 2000 16:02:17 GMT, Ted Dennison wrote: >In article <8va26k$bqb$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, > Robert Dewar <robert_dewar@my-deja.com> wrote: > >> These discussions were on the main gnu mailing list, open to >> participation by any interested parties (this is a very large > >Out of curiosity, exactly which list was it? I was unable to find any >such discussion in the archives of gnu-misc-discuss. I can't find >mention of any more general or "main" list on the gnu website (just >finding gnu-misc-discuss was challenge enough). If I'm not mistaken, he's talking about a discussion on gcc@gcc.gnu.org (archived at gcc.gnu.org). I don't know why he calls it the 'main gnu' list, though, because it's just the list for one project (GCC). gnu-misc-discuss is a list set up to divert noise and flamewars (particularly licensing) from other GNU lists. I've never seen a main gnu mailing list referenced on debian-devel/legal or the gcc list, and we cc RMS a lot, so if there is one, it doesn't look like it's very active. -- David Starner - dstarner98@aasaa.ofe.org http://dvdeug.dhis.org As centuries of pulp novels and late-night Christian broadcasting have taught us, anything we don't understand can be used for the purposes of Evil. -- Kenneth Hite, Suppressed Transmissions ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 22+ messages in thread
* Re: Where is the Ada for LINUX Team site? 2000-11-20 0:00 ` Ted Dennison 2000-11-20 0:00 ` Vincent Marciante 2000-11-20 0:00 ` David Starner @ 2000-11-21 1:42 ` Robert Dewar 2000-11-21 0:00 ` Ted Dennison 2 siblings, 1 reply; 22+ messages in thread From: Robert Dewar @ 2000-11-21 1:42 UTC (permalink / raw) In article <8vbhu4$fqh$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, Ted Dennison <dennison@telepath.com> asked about the location of the discussion thread. The thread in question is "Why not gnat Ada in gcc?" and the list is gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc/. The entire relevant discussion is in this list. The confusion apparently arose because Juergen was not following this list, but got concerned when someone sent him some out of context messages. The ironic thing is that the actual dynamics was complaints from Richard Stallman about ACT's behavior. He was concerned that NOT providing RPM's meant we were not doing our job :-) It was in that context that I explained why we were not directly distributing the RPM's in question! No one was saying that these RPM's were somehow evil, just that they made decisions that resulted in a non-conforming implementation, and we have an obligation from the validation procedures not to distribute compilers that do not pass the validation suite. The whole matter will eventually be OBE when we can provide RPM's which DO have full functionality, which is in our plans for the near future. Meanwhile, the existing RPM's are very useful for a lot of people, and we have often pointed users of the public version in this direction, since especially for casual users and students, the convenience of the RPM's far outweighs the fairly obscure issues of non-conformance. It is one of the advantages of the open source distribution model that even though we restricted our distributions to (arguably less convenient, but more strictly conforming) non-RPM versions, volunteers were able to take a different approach that met other needs. Robert Dewar Ada Core Technologies Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 22+ messages in thread
* Re: Where is the Ada for LINUX Team site? 2000-11-21 1:42 ` Robert Dewar @ 2000-11-21 0:00 ` Ted Dennison 2000-11-22 5:14 ` Robert Dewar 2000-11-22 5:16 ` Robert Dewar 0 siblings, 2 replies; 22+ messages in thread From: Ted Dennison @ 2000-11-21 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) In article <8vcjtb$ees$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, Robert Dewar <robert_dewar@my-deja.com> wrote: > In article <8vbhu4$fqh$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, > Ted Dennison <dennison@telepath.com> asked about the > location of the discussion thread. > > The thread in question is "Why not gnat Ada in gcc?" and > the list is gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc/. Ahhh. So it wasn't "the main gnu list", but rather the main gcc list. Not precicely a list I'd expect a RPM packager to subscribe to, unless they are in the habit of subscribing to random lists out of paranoia. > The entire relevant discussion is in this list. The confusion > apparently arose because Juergen was not following this list, > but got concerned when someone sent him some out of context > messages. I read through the thread, and I certianly saw no mention of ACT planning to start making their own RPMs. There was one message in particular ( http://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc/2000-11/msg00259.html ) that, taken out of context, could lead one to believe that though. Perhaps that's what happened. There were several messages in there from RMS marvelling that there would be a need for a separate group to support the Gnu Ada compiler on GNU/Linux platforms. But all of the messages I saw from ACT personel were *defending* that group's (ALT) right and need to exist. > The ironic thing is that the actual dynamics was complaints > from Richard Stallman about ACT's behavior. He was concerned > that NOT providing RPM's meant we were not doing our job :-) It looked to me more like RMS just didn't know that RPM's were ALT's focus, and thought (probably due to their name) that they might be a group created to make the GNU Ada compiler workable on GNU/Linux systems. Once RPMs were mentioned, his position seemed to be that they (RPM's) aren't really an issue he cares about, and in any event Debian packages should be supported by GNU projects before RPMs are. However, there were some side grumblings in there about how ALT was originally supposed to be doing much more. (perhaps even maintaining the GNAT source tree?). It certianly looks like there has been some extra discord between ALT and ACT that wasn't explictly talked about much. I have to wonder if some of Jurgen's problems aren't related to that, with the RPM thing (misunderstanding?) just being the "final straw"... -- T.E.D. http://www.telepath.com/~dennison/Ted/TED.html Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 22+ messages in thread
* Re: Where is the Ada for LINUX Team site? 2000-11-21 0:00 ` Ted Dennison @ 2000-11-22 5:14 ` Robert Dewar 2000-11-22 5:16 ` Robert Dewar 1 sibling, 0 replies; 22+ messages in thread From: Robert Dewar @ 2000-11-22 5:14 UTC (permalink / raw) In article <8venks$634$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, Ted Dennison <dennison@telepath.com> wrote: > Ahhh. So it wasn't "the main gnu list", but rather the main > gcc list. Not precicely a list I'd expect a RPM packager to > subscribe to, unless they are in the habit of subscribing to > random lists out of paranoia. I would recommend that anyone involved in development of the gcc system (certainly true of the ALT group) can benefit from following the gcc list. > However, there were some side grumblings in there about how > ALT was originally supposed to be doing much more. It is not a matter of "supposed to be", but rather "hoped to do". We all know that when you volunteer, you don't know how much time and effort you have to spend, and these things take a lot of time. We had a lot of hopes at the Paris meeting of ACT and the ALT team, but not everything came to pass. >(perhaps even maintaining the GNAT source tree?) At the Paris meeting, we had hoped that this might happen, resulting in a public tree much earlier, but as you know it did not, and that is why ACT is now taking the lead in creating this public tree. > It certianly looks like there has been some extra > discord between ALT and ACT that wasn't explictly talked about > much. Not that I or anyone else at ACT is aware of! And certainly nothing that any of the ALT people have brought to my attention. The first I knew of Juergen getting upset was his post to CLA, he had said nothing to anyone at ACT before this post. The only mail I had received was a message six days earlier, a perfectly friendly message offering to contribute his RPM technology, since we had announced we would be building RPM's for a future release of GNAT. > I have to wonder if some of Jurgen's problems aren't related > to that, with the RPM thing (misunderstanding?) just being the > "final straw"... Well you can always sew uncertainty and doubt with wonderings, but all I can say is that if you know this to be the case you know more than me. Robert Dewar Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 22+ messages in thread
* Re: Where is the Ada for LINUX Team site? 2000-11-21 0:00 ` Ted Dennison 2000-11-22 5:14 ` Robert Dewar @ 2000-11-22 5:16 ` Robert Dewar 2000-11-22 5:27 ` Robert Dewar 1 sibling, 1 reply; 22+ messages in thread From: Robert Dewar @ 2000-11-22 5:16 UTC (permalink / raw) By the way, in case people don't know, I am the official maintainer of GNAT for the FSF (me personally, not ACT, maintainers are always individuals or groups of individuals, never companies, so when I am talking about the public tree etc, I usually have the hat on as Robert Dewar FSF/GNAT maintainer Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 22+ messages in thread
* Re: Where is the Ada for LINUX Team site? 2000-11-22 5:16 ` Robert Dewar @ 2000-11-22 5:27 ` Robert Dewar 2000-11-23 23:36 ` Juergen Pfeifer 0 siblings, 1 reply; 22+ messages in thread From: Robert Dewar @ 2000-11-22 5:27 UTC (permalink / raw) Just to further clarify, the fact that the ALT team did not achieve everything we hoped they might from our Paris meeting was neither a surprise or a disappointment. We were operating in maximal optimistic mode in Paris, and part of the important dynamic here was that we were not somehow depending on volunteer work, so that we were disappointed when it did not all get done. In particular, setting up and maintaining a public tree is a huge effort, not one easily done with just volunteer effort (after all no one has done it for GNAT yet ... and we certainly know how much work is involved). On the contrary, we sketched out a plan of action that would benefit the GNU/Linux community, and as you know a lot was achieved. As I have mentioned in the past, I consider the RPM's very useful to a lot of people, and indeed the technology developed there will be very useful to us in distributing RPM's in future (as some of you may or may not know, the RPM technology for these GNAT RPM's is particularly sophisticated and effective. Robert Dewar Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 22+ messages in thread
* Re: Where is the Ada for LINUX Team site? 2000-11-22 5:27 ` Robert Dewar @ 2000-11-23 23:36 ` Juergen Pfeifer [not found] ` <3A2838CD.18F2446A@ebox.tninet.se> 0 siblings, 1 reply; 22+ messages in thread From: Juergen Pfeifer @ 2000-11-23 23:36 UTC (permalink / raw) After the Paris meeting last year between ACT and ALT I was also optimistic that bits of what we discussed could be achieved. But what happened was, that all the ALT people attending the meeting except me disappeared, at least nobody started any significant activity to address one of the topics discussed at the meeting. Building and maintaining the RPMs eats up a lot of the spare time that I personally can spend on that, so to move ALT forward it simply needs people to take care of projects. For some time ALT was simply me. There was a discussion in Paris about a public GNAT CVS operated by the ALT group for the purpose of a more open development of GNAT, at least on Linux. But for sure - at least for me - it was quite clear that integrating GNAT into the gcc 3.0 tree is something that should be done by ACT. Only since I had some delay with the 3.13 RPMs and asked on GNATLIST for help, a few people offered there help for the packaging stuff. That's fine and I hope that we'll move this forward to a system where Ada programmers can use some kind of wizards to produce their own ALT compliant RPMs. J�rgen ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 22+ messages in thread
[parent not found: <3A2838CD.18F2446A@ebox.tninet.se>]
* Re: Where is the Ada for LINUX Team site? [not found] ` <3A2838CD.18F2446A@ebox.tninet.se> @ 2000-12-22 20:33 ` Juergen Pfeifer 0 siblings, 0 replies; 22+ messages in thread From: Juergen Pfeifer @ 2000-12-22 20:33 UTC (permalink / raw) > > and I hope that we'll move this forward to a system where Ada programmers > > can use some kind of wizards to produce their own ALT compliant RPMs. > > ALT compliant RPMs in this case is about the fact that > RPMSs of sw written in Ada must be packaged in a certain > way to allow run-time linking with the shared-libraries > in gnat-*-runtime. > Actually it means a bit more. It means that an authors RPM should fit into the dependency tree of ALT packages, that it relocates the same way the current ALT packages can do (note: all ALT packages are designed to be relocatable, i.e. you may use --prefix as rpm option to install it in a user defined location; this is a prereq. for non-root installs). Moreover the software in the package should follow the ALT directory scheme where to store the packages and the objects. The software in the package itself need not to care about being build as shared lib or not. The only real difference wrt. to a shared runtime is, that we changed the default behaviour of GNAT. Also ACTs version on Linux supports a shared runtime, but the default is to link statically. IMHO ALT compliance is therefore more related to package organisation and overall coherence of the ALT packages and not so much about the shared runtime default. The idea behind all that is to allow you to install an ALT package and just use it without any further configuration, environment settings etc. Everything fits together. J�rgen ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 22+ messages in thread
* Re: Where is the Ada for LINUX Team site? 2000-11-20 1:41 ` Juergen Pfeifer 2000-11-20 2:27 ` Robert Dewar @ 2000-11-20 3:32 ` Brian Rogoff 2000-11-20 0:00 ` Florian Weimer 2000-11-20 4:01 ` Robert Dewar 2000-11-21 0:05 ` Juergen Pfeifer 2 siblings, 2 replies; 22+ messages in thread From: Brian Rogoff @ 2000-11-20 3:32 UTC (permalink / raw) On Mon, 20 Nov 2000, Juergen Pfeifer wrote: > > I have just tried to visit this extremely useful site > > (www.gnuada.org/alt.html) only to encounter the message: > > > > "This site is closed. Please look at the official places for the GNAT > > tarfiles." > > > > Does anyone know what has happened to it? > > > Yes, the site is closed and it's uncertain whether or not I'll continue to > contribute. This > doesn't mean that other people may take over the site and continue to > operate it. > > As you all may know, I did all the www.gnuada.org stuff in my spare time as > a pure I urge you to reconsider. As Robert Dewar points out in his reply the lack of response to your e-mail query is simply due to being away. The ALT stuff has been very useful, and very much appreciated. Fortunately I grabbed the 3.13p ALT package before you shut down. Don't let this misunderstanding escalate any further, your efforts are really important! -- Brian ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 22+ messages in thread
* Re: Where is the Ada for LINUX Team site? 2000-11-20 3:32 ` Brian Rogoff @ 2000-11-20 0:00 ` Florian Weimer 2000-11-20 4:01 ` Robert Dewar 1 sibling, 0 replies; 22+ messages in thread From: Florian Weimer @ 2000-11-20 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) Brian Rogoff <bpr@shell5.ba.best.com> writes: > The ALT stuff has been very useful, and very much appreciated. > Fortunately I grabbed the 3.13p ALT package before you shut down. The ALT RPMs are still mirrored at http://de.gnuada.org/alt.html... ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 22+ messages in thread
* Re: Where is the Ada for LINUX Team site? 2000-11-20 3:32 ` Brian Rogoff 2000-11-20 0:00 ` Florian Weimer @ 2000-11-20 4:01 ` Robert Dewar 1 sibling, 0 replies; 22+ messages in thread From: Robert Dewar @ 2000-11-20 4:01 UTC (permalink / raw) In article <Pine.BSF.4.21.0011191924540.493-100000@shell5.ba.best.com>, Brian Rogoff <bpr@shell5.ba.best.com> wrote: > The ALT stuff has been very useful, and very much appreciated. > Fortunately I grabbed the 3.13p ALT package before you shut down. > Don't let this misunderstanding escalate any further, your efforts > are really important! I am sure that adapower can put up the 3.13p ALT package, ask Dave Botton, we can also put it in contrib at NYU. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 22+ messages in thread
* Re: Where is the Ada for LINUX Team site? 2000-11-20 1:41 ` Juergen Pfeifer 2000-11-20 2:27 ` Robert Dewar 2000-11-20 3:32 ` Brian Rogoff @ 2000-11-21 0:05 ` Juergen Pfeifer 2000-11-20 0:00 ` peter 2 siblings, 1 reply; 22+ messages in thread From: Juergen Pfeifer @ 2000-11-21 0:05 UTC (permalink / raw) After my private mailbox gets flooded with emails trying to motivate me to continue the www.gnuada.org site, I conclude that it was not the right decision to disappoint the community of ALT users just because I'm upset. I apologize for that. The community appears to be larger than I thought;-) Nevertheless I still believe that I had a valid reason to be upset, but that's another story. So www.gnuada.org is back on the net and loaded with a new release. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 22+ messages in thread
* Re: Where is the Ada for LINUX Team site? 2000-11-21 0:05 ` Juergen Pfeifer @ 2000-11-20 0:00 ` peter 0 siblings, 0 replies; 22+ messages in thread From: peter @ 2000-11-20 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) In article <8vce9e$fk7$03$1@news.t-online.com>, "Juergen says... > >So www.gnuada.org is back on the net and loaded with >a new release. thank you Juergen! we really appreciate all your work for the Ada community, and the effort you are putting into this on your own time. people like you are very valuable, and everyone thanks you for what you are doing. may you be blessed. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 22+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2000-12-22 20:33 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 22+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2000-11-19 0:00 Where is the Ada for LINUX Team site? Alec Hill 2000-11-20 1:41 ` Juergen Pfeifer 2000-11-20 2:27 ` Robert Dewar 2000-11-20 0:00 ` Florian Weimer 2000-11-20 0:00 ` David Gressett 2000-11-21 1:52 ` Robert Dewar 2000-11-20 0:00 ` David Starner 2000-11-20 0:00 ` Ted Dennison 2000-11-20 0:00 ` Vincent Marciante 2000-11-20 0:00 ` David Starner 2000-11-21 1:42 ` Robert Dewar 2000-11-21 0:00 ` Ted Dennison 2000-11-22 5:14 ` Robert Dewar 2000-11-22 5:16 ` Robert Dewar 2000-11-22 5:27 ` Robert Dewar 2000-11-23 23:36 ` Juergen Pfeifer [not found] ` <3A2838CD.18F2446A@ebox.tninet.se> 2000-12-22 20:33 ` Juergen Pfeifer 2000-11-20 3:32 ` Brian Rogoff 2000-11-20 0:00 ` Florian Weimer 2000-11-20 4:01 ` Robert Dewar 2000-11-21 0:05 ` Juergen Pfeifer 2000-11-20 0:00 ` peter
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