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From: Richard D Riehle <laoXhai@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Desirability of C++
Date: 2000/05/01
Date: 2000-05-01T03:51:36+00:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <8eiv08$820$1@slb1.atl.mindspring.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 4F706057FEE2A550.BF5FE19AE279EFCD.A55706B3F9D07043@lp.airnews.net

In article <4F706057FEE2A550.BF5FE19AE279EFCD.A55706B3F9D07043@lp.airnews.net>,
	rlove@antispam.neosoft.com (Robert B. Love ) wrote:

>In <8eclae$afj$1@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> Richard D Riehle wrote:
>> Here is the U.S. it gets pretty silly sometimes.  Last week, yet
>> another senior military officer pronounced in an influential meeting,
>> "Ada is dead."  
>
>Care to name him?  I sometimes write Congresscritters.  No reason why
>I can't write this officer, if I knew where to address the envelope.

Sorry, Robert.  I have gotten myself into more than enough
trouble over the years by naming names.  In fact, it doesn't
matter, in this case that we don't have the actual person's
name.  It is, sad to say, a widespread belief within the military
and, more recently among military contractors.   More important,
such pronouncements are not made maliciously, nor are they intended
to create yet more conflict in the language wars.  Rather, they 
reflect the influence of very bad advice from civilian organizations
with vested interests in other technologies.  

On top of that, the interpretation, by many, of former Assitant 
Secretary of Defense Paige's memo, is that Ada is no longer a DoD 
language.  It is a stupid interpretation and completely wrongheaded, 
but people will read what they want into it.  Notice the plethora
of articles at the time of the publication of that memo that declared
that Ada was "dead."  How can we blame military officers for mistakenly
thinking it is dead when they read that it is in popular magazines
such as Dr. Dobbs and Government Computing News.  

My current group of students was required to take a class in C++
as one of their preparatory courses for the program in which they
are enrolled.  When I ask the question, "Would you want to fly in 
an aiplane that depends on software written in C++?" they almost
unanimously answer, "No."   Meanwhile, contractors and others are
happily building software with C++.  To their credit, those 
contractors are deeply concerned about the quality of their product,
and some have indicated that, the deployed software must be reliable
regardless of what language is used.  

In my opinion, not often witheld, the defect density of software 
written in C++ is very likely to be higher than that written in 
Ada.  Moreover, it is more difficult to locate those defects as
early in the software lifecycle as it is with Ada.  

So when someone from the DoD says, "Ada is dead," and then answers
the question of "What is the alternative?" with "C++,"  I find myself
getting really annoyed at the poor advice these folks are getting.
And that is just the point.  Every senior officer in the military,
every DoD official, every DoD contractor, wants to produce quality
software.  They rely on advice from others to do so.  The advice
they get is from people with heavy investments in selling technology,
and services, mostly for languages other than Ada.  
 
Now that Secretary Paige is no longer in the DoD to champion the cause
of Ada, we need to find some mechanism to alert these senior decision
makers to the need for selecting the appropriate language for high quality
software, particularly in weapons systems. Our approach should not be to 
nag these senior officials but to find some way to raise their level of 
awareness about the dangers of the alternative technologies.  

Anyone who chooses C++ over Ada for a safety-critical DoD software system 
either 1) does not understand C++, 2) does not understand Ada, 3) does 
not understand either, or 4) has an agenda based on criteria other than
the relative merits of the technologies.  

Richard Riehle  




  reply	other threads:[~2000-05-01  0:00 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 176+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2000-02-04  0:00 where can we get a job with ada HollymaN
2000-02-03  0:00 ` David Kristola
2000-02-04  0:00   ` EKoerber
2000-02-04  0:00     ` Ted Dennison
2000-02-04  0:00       ` Brian Rogoff
2000-02-05  0:00         ` David Kristola
2000-02-06  0:00           ` Simon Brady
2000-02-07  0:00             ` Gareth
2000-02-07  0:00               ` Simon Brady
2000-02-07  0:00               ` Kent Paul Dolan
2000-02-07  0:00                 ` Gareth
2000-02-08  0:00                   ` Kent Paul Dolan
2000-02-11  0:00                 ` where can we ... [off topic] Nick Roberts
2000-02-07  0:00               ` where can we get a job with ada Ted Dennison
2000-02-12  0:00               ` Jeff Carter
2000-02-07  0:00             ` Ted Dennison
2000-02-28  0:00             ` Florian Weimer
2000-02-29  0:00               ` Ted Dennison
2000-03-01  0:00               ` Wes Groleau
2000-03-04  0:00               ` Robert B. Love 
2000-03-05  0:00                 ` Ada on International Space Station (Re: where can we get a job with ada) Vladimir Olensky
2000-03-08  0:00                   ` Robert B. Love 
2000-03-08  0:00                     ` Vladimir Olensky
2000-03-08  0:00                     ` Jean St-Pierre
2000-04-03  0:00                   ` Andrew Thomas Wilson
2000-04-12  0:00                     ` David Hoffman
2000-04-13  0:00                       ` Robert B. Love 
2000-04-14  0:00                         ` Desirability of C++ (was Re: Ada on International Space Station (Re: where can we get a job with ada)) David Kristola
2000-04-14  0:00                           ` Wes Groleau
2000-04-14  0:00                             ` Desirability of C++ Stanley R. Allen
2000-04-14  0:00                               ` Marin D. Condic
2000-04-15  0:00                                 ` Tarjei T. Jensen
2000-04-15  0:00                                   ` Marin D. Condic
2000-04-15  0:00                                     ` Tarjei T. Jensen
2000-04-17  0:00                                   ` Alfred Hilscher
2000-04-17  0:00                                     ` Gautier
2000-04-18  0:00                                       ` Tarjei T. Jensen
2000-04-18  0:00                                         ` Gautier
2000-04-28  0:00                                         ` Richard D Riehle
2000-05-02  0:00                                           ` Tarjei T. Jensen
2000-04-18  0:00                                       ` Pascal Obry
2000-04-23  0:00                                       ` David Kristola
2000-04-18  0:00                                     ` Tarjei T. Jensen
2000-04-17  0:00                                 ` Alfred Hilscher
2000-04-17  0:00                                   ` Marin D. Condic
2000-04-17  0:00                                     ` Gary Scott
2000-04-28  0:00                               ` Richard D Riehle
2000-04-30  0:00                                 ` Robert B. Love 
2000-05-01  0:00                                   ` Richard D Riehle [this message]
2000-05-01  0:00                                     ` E. Robert Tisdale
2000-04-30  0:00                                       ` Keith Thompson
2000-05-01  0:00                                         ` E. Robert Tisdale
2000-05-01  0:00                                           ` Keith Thompson
2000-05-01  0:00                                       ` Tarjei Tj�stheim Jensen
2000-05-01  0:00                                         ` Pascal Obry
2000-05-01  0:00                                           ` Gautier
2000-05-01  0:00                                             ` Ted Dennison
2000-05-01  0:00                                           ` Tarjei Tj�stheim Jensen
2000-05-01  0:00                                         ` Gautier
2000-05-01  0:00                                       ` Gautier
2000-05-01  0:00                                         ` Marin D. Condic
2000-05-01  0:00                                         ` Hyman Rosen
2000-05-01  0:00                                           ` Gautier
2000-05-01  0:00                                             ` Brian Rogoff
2000-05-02  0:00                                               ` Gautier
2000-05-02  0:00                                             ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
2000-05-01  0:00                                           ` Tarjei Tj�stheim Jensen
2000-05-01  0:00                                             ` tmoran
2000-05-02  0:00                                               ` Tarjei T. Jensen
2000-05-02  0:00                                                 ` Preben Randhol
2000-05-02  0:00                                                   ` Strings TP/Ada (was Desirability of C++) Gautier
2000-05-02  0:00                                                   ` Desirability of C++ Keith Thompson
2000-05-03  0:00                                                   ` Tarjei T. Jensen
2000-05-03  0:00                                                     ` Robert A Duff
2000-05-02  0:00                                               ` Gautier
2000-05-02  0:00                                                 ` Jean-Pierre Rosen
2000-05-02  0:00                                                   ` Gautier
2000-05-02  0:00                                                     ` Jean-Pierre Rosen
2000-05-03  0:00                                                       ` Robert A Duff
2000-05-03  0:00                                                         ` Jean-Pierre Rosen
2000-05-03  0:00                                                       ` Marin D. Condic
2000-05-03  0:00                                                         ` Jean-Pierre Rosen
2000-05-03  0:00                                                           ` Wes Groleau
2000-05-04  0:00                                                         ` Robert I. Eachus
2000-05-05  0:00                                                           ` Marin D. Condic
2000-05-02  0:00                                                     ` Robert A Duff
2000-05-03  0:00                                                       ` Tarjei T. Jensen
2000-05-03  0:00                                                         ` Pascal Obry
2000-05-03  0:00                                                           ` Paul Graham
2000-05-03  0:00                                                             ` Pascal Obry
2000-05-03  0:00                                                               ` Paul Graham
2000-05-03  0:00                                                                 ` Robert A Duff
2000-05-04  0:00                                                               ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
2000-05-04  0:00                                                                 ` Pascal Obry
2000-05-04  0:00                                                                 ` Preben Randhol
2000-05-04  0:00                                                                   ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
2000-05-04  0:00                                                                     ` Preben Randhol
2000-05-05  0:00                                                             ` Gautier
2000-05-04  0:00                                                           ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
2000-05-03  0:00                                                         ` Robert A Duff
2000-05-03  0:00                                                           ` Delphi Strings (was Re: Desirability of C++) Ray Blaak
2000-05-03  0:00                                                       ` Desirability of C++ Robert I. Eachus
2000-05-03  0:00                                                         ` Robert A Duff
2000-05-04  0:00                                                           ` Robert I. Eachus
2000-05-02  0:00                                               ` Al Christians
2000-05-02  0:00                                             ` Gautier
2000-05-02  0:00                                           ` Richard D Riehle
2000-05-01  0:00                                         ` E. Robert Tisdale
2000-05-01  0:00                                           ` Pat Rogers
2000-05-01  0:00                                             ` E. Robert Tisdale
2000-05-01  0:00                                               ` Pat Rogers
2000-05-01  0:00                                                 ` Michael P. Walsh
2000-05-01  0:00                                                   ` Pat Rogers
2000-05-01  0:00                                                     ` E. Robert Tisdale
2000-05-02  0:00                                                       ` Bill Greene
2000-05-01  0:00                                             ` David Starner
2000-05-01  0:00                                               ` Florian Weimer
2000-05-01  0:00                                                 ` Ted Dennison
2000-05-01  0:00                                                   ` Tarjei Tj�stheim Jensen
2000-05-01  0:00                                                     ` Ted Dennison
2000-05-02  0:00                                                       ` Preben Randhol
2000-05-02  0:00                                                       ` Florian Weimer
2000-05-02  0:00                                                   ` Application in Ada (was Desirability of C++) Jean-Pierre Rosen
2000-05-02  0:00                                                     ` Ted Dennison
2000-05-02  0:00                                                       ` Jean-Pierre Rosen
2000-05-03  0:00                                                       ` Tarjei Tj�stheim Jensen
2000-05-03  0:00                                                         ` Ted Dennison
2000-05-01  0:00                                                 ` Desirability of C++ tmoran
2000-05-01  0:00                                                 ` David Starner
2000-05-01  0:00                                                 ` Lionel Draghi
2000-05-02  0:00                                                   ` Florian Weimer
2000-05-01  0:00                                               ` Pat Rogers
2000-05-01  0:00                                                 ` Ted Dennison
2000-05-01  0:00                                                   ` E. Robert Tisdale
2000-05-01  0:00                                                     ` Pat Rogers
2000-05-01  0:00                                                     ` Gautier
2000-05-01  0:00                                               ` David Starner
2000-05-01  0:00                                       ` Ted Dennison
2000-05-07  0:00                                       ` ANTHONY GAIR
2000-05-07  0:00                                         ` Richard D Riehle
2000-05-07  0:00                                           ` ANTHONY GAIR
2000-05-08  0:00                                             ` Pascal Obry
2000-05-08  0:00                                               ` Ehud Lamm
2000-05-08  0:00                                                 ` Larry Kilgallen
2000-05-08  0:00                                           ` Stanley R. Allen
2000-05-09  0:00                                             ` Richard D Riehle
2000-05-08  0:00                                           ` Mario Klebsch
2000-05-08  0:00                                             ` E. Robert Tisdale
2000-05-08  0:00                                               ` Gautier
2000-05-09  0:00                                               ` Stanley R. Allen
2000-05-10  0:00                                                 ` Alfred Hilscher
2000-05-10  0:00                                                 ` Mario Klebsch
2000-05-07  0:00                                         ` Hyman Rosen
2000-05-07  0:00                                           ` ANTHONY GAIR
2000-05-08  0:00                                             ` Hyman Rosen
2000-05-09  0:00                                               ` Pascal Obry
2000-05-11  0:00                                             ` wv12
2000-05-11  0:00                                               ` Frank J. Lhota
2000-05-11  0:00                                               ` Warner Bruns
2000-05-18  0:00                                                 ` ANTHONY GAIR
2000-05-18  0:00                                                 ` Warner Bruns
2000-05-19  0:00                                                   ` ANTHONY GAIR
2000-05-24  0:00                                                   ` Richard Kenner
2000-05-07  0:00                                         ` Robert Dewar
2000-05-01  0:00                                     ` Tarjei Tj�stheim Jensen
2000-05-01  0:00                                 ` Ken Garlington
2000-04-29  0:00                         ` Ada on International Space Station (Re: where can we get a job with ada) Chris Johnston
2000-05-01  0:00                           ` Ted Dennison
2000-05-01  0:00                       ` Desirability of C++ Larry Kilgallen
     [not found]                       ` <7EA1B852F5D4D8C6.26EEE9181C8Reply-To: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam <Ij4OaidfGTH8@eisner.decus.org>
2000-05-01  0:00                         ` E. Robert Tisdale
2000-03-05  0:00                 ` where can we get a job with ada Ted Dennison
2000-03-22  0:00                 ` Florian Weimer
2000-03-05  0:00               ` David Kristola
2000-02-04  0:00 ` Stanley R. Allen
2000-02-04  0:00   ` Stanley R. Allen
2000-02-06  0:00 ` David Tannen
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