* Britannica on Ada @ 2000-02-29 0:00 David Botton 2000-03-01 0:00 ` Geoff Bull ` (2 more replies) 0 siblings, 3 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: David Botton @ 2000-02-29 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) Just got my Britannica DVD 2000 and look what comes up: "Ada is similar to Pascal but contains many additional features that are convenient for the development of large-scale programs. Because of its abundant features, however, ordinary users may feel awkward using Ada. Thus, Ada has not been widely used in programs other than those for the Department of Defense." I certainly find Ada easier then Java, C or C++ particularly when it comes time to read some one else's code ;-) David Botton ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: Britannica on Ada 2000-02-29 0:00 Britannica on Ada David Botton @ 2000-03-01 0:00 ` Geoff Bull 2000-03-01 0:00 ` Frode Tenneboe 2000-03-06 0:00 ` jehamby 2 siblings, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Geoff Bull @ 2000-03-01 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) David Botton wrote: > > Just got my Britannica DVD 2000 and look what comes up: > > ... ordinary users may feel awkward using Ada. ... > > I certainly find Ada easier then Java, C or C++ particularly when it comes > time to read some one else's code ;-) Yes David, but you are not exactly ordinary! :-) Perhaps you could send them a better entry for the 2001 edition? Cheers Geoff ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: Britannica on Ada 2000-02-29 0:00 Britannica on Ada David Botton 2000-03-01 0:00 ` Geoff Bull @ 2000-03-01 0:00 ` Frode Tenneboe 2000-03-01 0:00 ` Robert Dewar 2000-03-02 0:00 ` Gautier 2000-03-06 0:00 ` jehamby 2 siblings, 2 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Frode Tenneboe @ 2000-03-01 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) David Botton <David@botton.com> wrote: : Just got my Britannica DVD 2000 and look what comes up: : "Ada is similar to Pascal but contains many additional features that are : convenient for the development of large-scale programs. Because of its : abundant features, however, ordinary users may feel awkward using Ada. Thus, : Ada has not been widely used in programs other than those for the Department : of Defense." This seems to be a very common misconception in encyclopediaes - look what the Jargon Lexicon has to say about Ada (http://sagan.earthspace.net/jargon/jargon_16.html#TAG8): "Ada /n./ A Pascal-descended language that has been made mandatory for Department of Defense software projects by the Pentagon. Hackers are nearly unanimous in observing that, technically, it is precisely what one might expect given that kind of endorsement by fiat; designed by committee, crockish, difficult to use, and overall a disastrous, multi-billion-dollar boondoggle (one common description is "The PL/I of the 1980s"). Hackers find Ada's exception-handling and inter-process communication features particularly hilarious. Ada Lovelace (the daughter of Lord Byron who became the world's first programmer while cooperating with Charles Babbage on the design of his mechanical computing engines in the mid-1800s) would almost certainly blanch at the use to which her name has latterly been put; the kindest thing that has been said about it is that there is probably a good small language screaming to get out from inside its vast, elephantine bulk. " Clearly - something has to be done. Has anyone got a nice, accurate resume which we can send to ill-informed editors? : I certainly find Ada easier then Java, C or C++ particularly when it comes : time to read some one else's code ;-) Or ones own code. :-) -Frode -- ^ Frode Tenneb� | email: ft@edh.ericsson.se ^ | Ericsson Radar AS. N-1788 Halden | | | Phone: +47 69 21 41 47 | Frode@IRC | | with Standard.Disclaimer; use Standard.Disclaimer; | ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: Britannica on Ada 2000-03-01 0:00 ` Frode Tenneboe @ 2000-03-01 0:00 ` Robert Dewar 2000-03-02 0:00 ` jehamby 2000-03-02 0:00 ` Gautier 1 sibling, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread From: Robert Dewar @ 2000-03-01 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) In article <951897836.859085@edh3>, Frode Tenneboe <ft@alne.edh.ericsson.se> wrote: > Hackers > find Ada's exception-handling and inter-process communication features > particularly hilarious. I guess the even more "hilarious" exception handling in C++ and Java must really give the hackers a good laugh :-) Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: Britannica on Ada 2000-03-01 0:00 ` Robert Dewar @ 2000-03-02 0:00 ` jehamby 2000-03-03 0:00 ` Ehud Lamm 0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread From: jehamby @ 2000-03-02 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) In article <89j5un$j49$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, Robert Dewar <robert_dewar@my-deja.com> wrote: > I guess the even more "hilarious" exception handling in C++ > and Java must really give the hackers a good laugh :-) I think there's a double standard at work here. Who knows, perhaps whoever wrote the original Ada entry *would* have had a good laugh at the expense of C++ and Java. "Real hackers use C", right? From my limited experiences at DEFCON and other places where self-proclaimed (as opposed to widely-acknowledged) hackers congregate, it's obvious to me that rule #1 is to love what everyone else loves and knock whatever everyone else is knocking. So if everyone loves Linux, you gotta love Linux. If everyone's using C, you gotta use C. If your clique of friends likes C++, then you can use C++, but if your clique hates C++, then you have to badmouth it. "Java's slow", "Ada sucks", "Windows blows", "VMS bites" (note that the first criticism is relative, and the other three are meaningless.. that's on purpose, because that's what I hear most often!). What happened to judging languages on their own merits? If you don't like Ada, or C++, or Windows, then you're entitled to your opinions (after all, *I* don't particularly like C++ or Windows!), but make sure they're *your* opinions, and that they're not just nth-generation copies of someone else's (possibly decades-old!) opinions. -Jake Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: Britannica on Ada 2000-03-02 0:00 ` jehamby @ 2000-03-03 0:00 ` Ehud Lamm 0 siblings, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Ehud Lamm @ 2000-03-03 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) One of the nasty terms i like in the Jargon file is "wannabee" "A woul-be hacker" Someone merely repeating what others say is at best a wannabee. Or perhaps a computer program, with poor chances of passing the Turing test. Ehud Lamm mslamm@mscc.huji.ac.il http://purl.oclc.org/NET/ehudlamm <== My home on the web Check it out and subscribe to the E-List- for interesting essays and more! ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: Britannica on Ada 2000-03-01 0:00 ` Frode Tenneboe 2000-03-01 0:00 ` Robert Dewar @ 2000-03-02 0:00 ` Gautier 1 sibling, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Gautier @ 2000-03-02 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) One day I'll write a pair of programs using a common small dictionnary with words such as "huge", "complex", "comitee" etc. The first will read a text source to measure its "stupid gossip" density (the Jargon file article about Ada will serve as scaling reference); the second will automatically and randomly generate these sorts of sentences - maybe in parallel, like the "dining philosophers". A look to Dilbert web site with its random mission statement generator can help too... -- Gautier _____\\________________\_______\_________ http://members.xoom.com/gdemont/gsoft.htm ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: Britannica on Ada 2000-02-29 0:00 Britannica on Ada David Botton 2000-03-01 0:00 ` Geoff Bull 2000-03-01 0:00 ` Frode Tenneboe @ 2000-03-06 0:00 ` jehamby 2000-03-07 0:00 ` Ted Dennison 2 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread From: jehamby @ 2000-03-06 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) In article <AC0v4.7618$zv.1333461@news4.usenetserver.com>, "David Botton" <David@Botton.com> wrote: > Just got my Britannica DVD 2000 and look what comes up: BTW, whatis.com has a much more flattering definition of Ada (complete with several different descriptions from different sources, including the Hacker's Dictionary, along with the comment that many "hackers" don't agree with that definition), here: http://www.whatis.com/ada.htm -Jake Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: Britannica on Ada 2000-03-06 0:00 ` jehamby @ 2000-03-07 0:00 ` Ted Dennison 2000-03-07 0:00 ` Tucker Taft 0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread From: Ted Dennison @ 2000-03-07 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) In article <8a1afv$e5c$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, jehamby@lightside.com wrote: > BTW, whatis.com has a much more flattering definition of Ada (complete > with several different descriptions from different sources, including > the Hacker's Dictionary, along with the comment that many "hackers" > don't agree with that definition), here: Interesting that the two vendors mentioned are two of the smaller ones. -- T.E.D. http://www.telepath.com/~dennison/Ted/TED.html Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: Britannica on Ada 2000-03-07 0:00 ` Ted Dennison @ 2000-03-07 0:00 ` Tucker Taft 0 siblings, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Tucker Taft @ 2000-03-07 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) Ted Dennison wrote: > > In article <8a1afv$e5c$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, > jehamby@lightside.com wrote: > > > BTW, whatis.com has a much more flattering definition of Ada (complete > > with several different descriptions from different sources, including > > the Hacker's Dictionary, along with the comment that many "hackers" > > don't agree with that definition), here: > > Interesting that the two vendors mentioned are two of the smaller ones. [Green Hills and OCSystems are the two mentioned.] Actually, Green Hills is one of the bigger Ada vendors. In terms of Ada 95 sales, I suspect they are second only to Rational. Of course, it is a little hard to compare "sales" figures when comparing with GNAT ;-). > > -- > T.E.D. > > http://www.telepath.com/~dennison/Ted/TED.html > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Before you buy. -- -Tucker Taft stt@averstar.com http://www.averstar.com/~stt/ Technical Director, Distributed IT Solutions (www.averstar.com/tools) AverStar (formerly Intermetrics, Inc.) Burlington, MA USA ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2000-03-07 0:00 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 10+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2000-02-29 0:00 Britannica on Ada David Botton 2000-03-01 0:00 ` Geoff Bull 2000-03-01 0:00 ` Frode Tenneboe 2000-03-01 0:00 ` Robert Dewar 2000-03-02 0:00 ` jehamby 2000-03-03 0:00 ` Ehud Lamm 2000-03-02 0:00 ` Gautier 2000-03-06 0:00 ` jehamby 2000-03-07 0:00 ` Ted Dennison 2000-03-07 0:00 ` Tucker Taft
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