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From: Ben Pfaff <pfaffben@msu.edu>
Subject: Re: Which language pays most -- C++ vs. Java?
Date: 1999/07/29
Date: 1999-07-29T00:00:00+00:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <87yafzi9k1.fsf@pfaffben.user.msu.edu> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 34D2BDE3.6ECF9A19@siu.edu

Larry Wiggins <lwiggins@siu.edu> writes:

   the only thing that most of the people on this group have failed to
   notice.  That is the fact that most programmers are required by their
   college curricula to complete two years of math covering calculus,
   linear algebra, discrete math, and statistics, and probability

That doesn't mean that programmers without a degree don't know
anything about those subjects.  For instance, I learned most of the
relevant parts of these subjects well in advance of going to college
simply because I needed them to write the software that I wanted to
write.

   ....as well as physics and chemistry

Which are irrelevant for programmers unless you're writing software
for use with either of these subjects.

   ....so there for, many programmer's with an actual degree will do
   well, possibly better, because they will have been formally taught
   these subject as well as structured programs....

I haven't been impressed with the ability of the CS students I've met
to write structured programs.  All of the best programmers I've met
have been self-taught.

-- 
"In My Egotistical Opinion, most people's C programs should be indented six
 feet downward and covered with dirt." -- Blair P. Houghton




  reply	other threads:[~1999-07-29  0:00 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 344+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <199712121931.LAA25389@sirius.infonex.com>
1997-12-12  0:00 ` Which language pays most 17457 -- C++ vs. Java? Roedy Green
1997-12-17  0:00   ` Wes Groleau
1997-12-16  0:00     ` steve
1997-12-18  0:00       ` Alicia Carla Longstreet
1997-12-17  0:00         ` steve
1997-12-19  0:00           ` Larry Elmore
1997-12-19  0:00             ` James Giles
1997-12-18  0:00         ` John Seitz
1997-12-18  0:00           ` Robert Robbins
1997-12-19  0:00             ` Mark Wilden
1997-12-19  0:00           ` Ian Upright
1997-12-19  0:00             ` William Murray
1997-12-19  0:00               ` steve
1997-12-20  0:00               ` Robert Munck
     [not found]         ` <01bd0c0b$53cc1860$26db45cf@juddesk>
1997-12-17  0:00           ` steve
1997-12-18  0:00           ` Peter Seebach
1997-12-17  0:00             ` steve
1997-12-19  0:00               ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-12-17  0:00                 ` steve
1997-12-22  0:00               ` Lawrence Kirby
1997-12-21  0:00                 ` steve
1997-12-28  0:00                   ` Lawrence Kirby
1997-12-18  0:00             ` James Giles
1997-12-17  0:00               ` steve
1997-12-19  0:00                 ` James Giles
1997-12-18  0:00                   ` steve
1997-12-19  0:00                     ` James Giles
1997-12-18  0:00                       ` steve
1997-12-19  0:00                         ` James Giles
1997-12-22  0:00                       ` Lawrence Kirby
1997-12-21  0:00                         ` James Giles
1997-12-21  0:00                           ` steve
1997-12-30  0:00                             ` Chris Gray
1997-12-28  0:00                           ` Lawrence Kirby
1997-12-28  0:00                             ` John Winters
1997-12-30  0:00                             ` paulr
1997-12-31  0:00                               ` Which language pays most " arnie sherman
1997-12-30  0:00                                 ` Dann Corbit
1997-12-31  0:00                                 ` John Slaman
     [not found]                                   ` <01bd198f$4050d960$68c8b5cc@dhite.unicomp.net>
1998-01-06  0:00                                     ` Jedi
1998-01-10  0:00                                     ` Highlander Consulting
1998-01-11  0:00                                       ` Patricia Shanahan
1998-01-11  0:00                                         ` Barrabazz
1998-01-11  0:00                                           ` Patricia Shanahan
1998-01-12  0:00                                           ` Ron Peterson
1998-01-14  0:00                                             ` anonymous
1998-01-19  0:00                                               ` Joe Gwinn
     [not found]                                                 ` <01bd2526$66b70fa0$d6d945cf@juddesk>
1998-01-23  0:00                                                   ` dnns
1998-01-23  0:00                                                     ` Philosophers Nick Roberts
1998-01-23  0:00                                                       ` Spam--> was:Re: Philosophers Dann Corbit
1998-01-24  0:00                                                         ` Nick Roberts
1998-01-26  0:00                                                           ` Doug Miller
1998-01-24  0:00                                                       ` Philosophers John G.
     [not found]                                                         ` <Pine.LNX.3.95. <34cd2808.10685219@newsroom.tassie.net.au>
1998-01-28  0:00                                                           ` Philosophers docdwarf
     [not found]                                                             ` <01bd2c40$b62837a0$7261b693@HP5079Q>
1998-01-28  0:00                                                               ` Philosophers The Goobers
1998-02-01  0:00                                                                 ` Philosophers Scott Adams
     [not found]                                                                 ` <01bd2cc0$f0042b70$7261b693@HP5079Q>
1998-02-04  0:00                                                                   ` Philosophers The Goobers
1998-02-10  0:00                                                                 ` Back to the topic of CS students. (was Re: Philosophers) cyanide
1998-02-10  0:00                                                                   ` Nick Roberts
1998-01-30  0:00                                                             ` Philosophers jim
1998-01-30  0:00                                                               ` Philosophers docdwarf
1998-01-30  0:00                                                                 ` Philosophers suzie
1998-01-30  0:00                                                                   ` Philosophers docdwarf
1998-01-31  0:00                                                                 ` Philosophers Martin Richardson
1998-01-31  0:00                                                                   ` Philosophers Jeff York
1998-02-01  0:00                                                                     ` Philosophers Martin Richardson
1998-02-02  0:00                                                                       ` Philosophers Jeff York
1998-02-02  0:00                                                                       ` Philosophers Eddie Armstrong
1998-02-03  0:00                                                                         ` Philosophers Nyk Tarr
1998-02-02  0:00                                                                       ` Philosophers Pat O'Connell
1998-02-02  0:00                                                                     ` Philosophers Robert Garskof
1998-02-02  0:00                                                                       ` Philosophers Dave Tholen
1998-01-30  0:00                                                               ` Philosophers Samuel Mize
1998-02-10  0:00                                                             ` Philosophers cyanide
1998-02-09  0:00                                                               ` Philosophers The Goobers
1998-02-18  0:00                                                             ` Philosophers Mad Hamish
1999-07-29  0:00                                                         ` Philosophers firewind
1998-01-24  0:00                                                           ` Philosophers John G.
1998-02-10  0:00                                                             ` Drifting further off topic cyanide
1998-01-25  0:00                                                           ` Philosophers Jens Schweikhardt
1998-01-28  0:00                                                           ` Philosophers Mad Hamish
1998-01-27  0:00                                                             ` Philosophers Kurt Wall
1998-01-24  0:00                                                       ` Philosophers Mike Whiten
1998-01-24  0:00                                                         ` Philosophers The Goobers
1998-01-25  0:00                                                           ` Philosophers Arnold Trembley
1998-01-25  0:00                                                             ` Philosophers The Goobers
1998-01-26  0:00                                                           ` :-) Philosophers Giovanni Drogo [drogo@rn.bastiani.it]
1998-01-29  0:00                                                           ` Philosophers Steve Dekorte
1998-01-29  0:00                                                             ` Philosophers The Goobers
1998-01-27  0:00                                                     ` Which language pays most -- C++ vs. Java? Robert Garskof
1998-01-28  0:00                                                 ` Steve Dekorte
1998-01-28  0:00                                                   ` Barrabazz
1998-01-28  0:00                                                     ` dogmat
1998-01-29  0:00                                                       ` Tim Oxler
1998-01-29  0:00                                                       ` Tim Oxler
1998-01-29  0:00                                                       ` Joe Gwinn
1998-01-29  0:00                                                         ` coryb
1998-01-29  0:00                                                         ` Wayne L. Beavers
1998-01-29  0:00                                                           ` Frank A. Adrian
1998-02-03  0:00                                                           ` GLE
1998-02-03  0:00                                                             ` The Goobers
1998-02-03  0:00                                                             ` Harold Stevens ** PLEASE SEE SIG **
1998-01-30  0:00                                                         ` Robert S. White
1998-01-30  0:00                                                           ` Patricia Shanahan
1998-01-31  0:00                                                           ` Paul Van Bellinghen
1998-02-01  0:00                                                             ` Nick Roberts
1998-02-09  0:00                                                         ` cyanide
1998-02-10  0:00                                                           ` dogmat
1998-02-10  0:00                                                           ` Bill Lynch
1998-02-10  0:00                                                             ` Michael Rot13 Klein
1998-02-10  0:00                                                             ` Jeff Knaggs
1998-02-09  0:00                                                       ` cyanide
1998-02-10  0:00                                                         ` dogmat
1999-07-29  0:00                                                       ` Edwin Purvee
     [not found]                                                     ` <01bd2c3c$6726d520$8101b8c7@MIS-RKW95.spartan.com>
1998-02-10  0:00                                                       ` Steve Dekorte
1998-02-10  0:00                                                         ` Bill Lynch
1998-02-11  0:00                                                         ` dogmat
1998-01-29  0:00                                                   ` Joe Gwinn
1998-01-31  0:00                                                 ` Larry Wiggins
1999-07-29  0:00                                                   ` Ben Pfaff [this message]
1999-07-29  0:00                                                     ` Kaz Kylheku
1998-02-02  0:00                                                 ` This thread has drifted miles from its subject line Wes Groleau
     [not found]                                                 ` <6alu5l$onm$1@owl.slip <01bd2c3c$6726d520$8101b8c7@MIS-RKW95.spartan.com>
1998-02-02  0:00                                                   ` Which language pays most -- C++ vs. Java? Kaz Kylheku
1998-02-02  0:00                                                     ` Michael C. Kasten
     [not found]                                                 ` <6alu5l$ <34D6243C.2A53@gc057.fw.hac.com>
1998-02-05  0:00                                                   ` This thread has drifted miles from its subject line Paul Osborn
     [not found]                                                 ` <6alu5l$onm$1@owl.slip <34E0D798.E29D6CA0@cableol.co.uk>
1998-02-11  0:00                                                   ` Which language pays most -- C++ vs. Java? Kaz Kylheku
     [not found]                                               ` <gwinn-1901981219520001@dh5055142. <01bd284c$4b0b4fe0$c0f682c1@xhv46.dial.pipex.com>
1998-01-24  0:00                                                 ` Philosophers Kaz Kylheku
     [not found]                                               ` <gwinn-1901981219520001@dh5055142. <34CE059C.634DE881@snet.com>
1998-01-27  0:00                                                 ` Which language pays most -- C++ vs. Java? Kaz Kylheku
1998-01-28  0:00                                                   ` Robert Garskof
     [not found]                                               ` <gwinn-1901981219520001@dh5055142. <34C9F3D0.6B5A@erols.com>
1998-01-28  0:00                                                 ` Philosophers Warren B. Focke
1998-01-29  0:00                                                   ` Philosophers The Goobers
1998-02-05  0:00                                                     ` Philosophers Warren B. Focke
1998-02-05  0:00                                                       ` Philosophers The Goobers
1998-02-06  0:00                                                         ` Philosophers dogmat
1998-02-06  0:00                                                           ` Philosophers docdwarf
1998-02-06  0:00                                                             ` Philosophers dogmat
1998-02-06  0:00                                                               ` Philosophers docdwarf
1998-02-06  0:00                                                       ` Philosophers Harold Stevens ** PLEASE SEE SIG **
1998-02-10  0:00                                                         ` Film "Contact" Nick Roberts
1998-02-09  0:00                                             ` Which language pays most -- C++ vs. Java? cyanide
1998-01-11  0:00                                       ` Kaz Kylheku
1998-01-11  0:00                                         ` Carsten Arnholm
1998-01-15  0:00                                         ` Highlander Consulting
1998-01-16  0:00                                         ` Charles F Hankel
1999-08-09  0:00                                         ` Paul Groves
1999-08-09  0:00                                           ` Kaz Kylheku
1998-01-02  0:00                                 ` Philip Hunt
1997-12-31  0:00                             ` Which language pays most 17457 " Guillermo Schwarz
1997-12-31  0:00                               ` Billy Chambless
1998-01-03  0:00                                 ` Berna L Massingill
1998-01-04  0:00                               ` Lawrence Kirby
1997-12-19  0:00                   ` Peter Seebach
1997-12-19  0:00                     ` James Giles
1997-12-18  0:00                       ` steve
1997-12-23  0:00                       ` Guillermo Schwarz
1997-12-19  0:00         ` Chip Ling
1997-12-17  0:00     ` James Giles
     [not found] ` <349793cb.33600861@news.wxs.nl>
     [not found]   ` <34923264.75B5@netup.cl>
     [not found]     ` <670qio$8a$1@sparcserver.lrz-muenchen.de>
     [not found]       ` <3494B7DA.5463@ici.net>
     [not found]         ` <34958D16.190C@gsg.eds.com>
     [not found]           ` <679807$8gm@ws1.emirates.net.ae>
     [not found]             ` <e9k976.8h3.ln@localhost>
1997-12-18  0:00               ` Klaus-Georg Adams
     [not found]               ` <67bjnv$j35$1@brie.direct.ca>
     [not found]                 ` <349B0417.D4DB6A30@its.cl>
1997-12-20  0:00                   ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-12-20  0:00                     ` William J. Leary Jr.
1997-12-20  0:00                       ` Kurt Watzka
1997-12-20  0:00                         ` William J. Leary Jr.
1997-12-21  0:00                           ` Peter Seebach
1997-12-21  0:00                       ` Peter Seebach
1997-12-21  0:00                         ` William J. Leary Jr.
1997-12-22  0:00                           ` Peter Seebach
1997-12-22  0:00                         ` Lawrence Kirby
1997-12-22  0:00                           ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-12-22  0:00                           ` Kurt Watzka
1997-12-28  0:00                             ` Lawrence Kirby
1997-12-24  0:00                           ` John Porter
1997-12-24  0:00                             ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-12-27  0:00                               ` Which language pays most? Smalltalk, not C++ nor Java Guillermo Schwarz
1997-12-27  0:00                                 ` Patricia Shanahan
1997-12-27  0:00                                 ` Joshua Waxman
1997-12-27  0:00                                 ` Robert Dewar
1997-12-29  0:00                                   ` John Porter
1997-12-29  0:00                                     ` Robert Dewar
     [not found]                                       ` <01bd14b4$dc6f6a80$6428b4cf@carla.ici.net>
1997-12-29  0:00                                         ` Robert Dewar
1997-12-30  0:00                                           ` Billy Chambless
1997-12-31  0:00                                         ` David Thornley
1997-12-31  0:00                                           ` Keith G. Murphy
1998-01-01  0:00                                           ` Robert Dewar
1998-01-01  0:00                                             ` Patricia Shanahan
1998-01-02  0:00                                               ` Robert Dewar
1998-01-02  0:00                                                 ` Peter Seebach
1998-01-02  0:00                                                   ` Robert Dewar
1998-01-02  0:00                                                   ` firewind
1998-01-02  0:00                                                     ` Ian Piumarta
1998-01-03  0:00                                                     ` Richard Kenner
1998-01-02  0:00                                           ` Shelly Mujtaba
1998-01-02  0:00                                             ` Guillermo Schwarz
1998-01-03  0:00                                               ` Jacqueline U. Robertson
1998-01-03  0:00                                               ` Dean Roddey
1998-01-03  0:00                                                 ` Jacqueline U. Robertson
1998-01-03  0:00                                                   ` Dean Roddey
1998-01-05  0:00                                                     ` Guillermo Schwarz
1998-01-05  0:00                                                       ` Kaz Kylheku
1998-01-03  0:00                                         ` Lawrence Kirby
1997-12-29  0:00                                     ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-12-29  0:00                                     ` Lawrence Kirby
1997-12-29  0:00                                     ` Patricia Shanahan
     [not found]                                     ` <01bd147e$11496760$6a28b4cf@carla.ici.net>
1997-12-29  0:00                                       ` Billy Chambless
1997-12-30  0:00                                       ` Jeffrey Templon
1997-12-30  0:00                                         ` Patricia Shanahan
1997-12-30  0:00                                           ` Charles R Martin
1998-01-03  0:00                                       ` Lawrence Kirby
1998-01-28  0:00                                     ` SmallTalk Execute files Thaminda Erangane Perera
1998-01-28  0:00                                       ` Dann Corbit
1998-01-29  0:00                                         ` Griff Lewis
1997-12-28  0:00                                 ` Which language pays most? Smalltalk, not C++ nor Java Kurt Watzka
1997-12-29  0:00                                   ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-12-29  0:00                                   ` Guillermo Schwarz
1997-12-29  0:00                                     ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-12-30  0:00                                     ` Lawrence Kirby
1997-12-30  0:00                                       ` Patricia Shanahan
1998-01-03  0:00                                         ` Lawrence Kirby
1998-01-03  0:00                                           ` Patricia Shanahan
1997-12-30  0:00                                     ` Billy Chambless
1997-12-30  0:00                                     ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-12-30  0:00                                     ` Joshua Waxman
1997-12-30  0:00                                       ` Robert Dewar
1997-12-30  0:00                                         ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-12-30  0:00                                       ` Kaz Kylheku
1997-12-30  0:00                                         ` Joshua Waxman
1997-12-30  0:00                                         ` Robert Dewar
1997-12-30  0:00                                           ` Dann Corbit
1997-12-31  0:00                                             ` David Thornley
1997-12-31  0:00                                               ` Robert Dewar
1997-12-31  0:00                                             ` John Porter
1997-12-31  0:00                                               ` Jon S Anthony
1998-01-02  0:00                                                 ` Robert Dewar
1997-12-30  0:00                                       ` firewind
1997-12-30  0:00                                         ` Joshua Waxman
1997-12-31  0:00                                           ` Robert Dewar
1997-12-31  0:00                                         ` Brock
1997-12-31  0:00                                           ` Dann Corbit
1997-12-31  0:00                                           ` Joshua Waxman
1998-01-01  0:00                                           ` firewind
1997-12-29  0:00                                 ` Kaz Kylheku
1998-01-02  0:00                                 ` Tor Iver Wilhelmsen
1997-12-25  0:00                             ` Which language pays most 17457 -- C++ vs. Java? Kurt Watzka
1997-12-19  0:00 ` Quowong P Liu
1997-12-19  0:00   ` William J. Leary Jr.
1997-12-24  0:00   ` Richard D Riehle
1998-01-30  0:00 Which language pays most " scott
1998-01-30  0:00 ` James Giles
1998-01-30  0:00 ` Charles W. Hall
1998-01-30  0:00   ` Kaz Kylheku
1998-01-30  0:00     ` Jahfre
1998-01-30  0:00     ` Art/Jeannie Daly
1998-02-02  0:00     ` Ian Chivers
1999-07-29  0:00     ` Edwin Purvee
1999-07-30  0:00       ` Kaz Kylheku
1999-07-30  0:00         ` Paul Mesken
1998-02-18  0:00   ` Mad Hamish
1998-02-17  0:00     ` Dennis Weldy
1998-02-18  0:00     ` mei
1998-02-18  0:00       ` Charles W. Hall
1998-02-19  0:00     ` Rennie Allen
1998-02-10  0:00 ` Graham Broadbridge
1998-02-10  0:00   ` dogmat
1998-02-11  0:00     ` Richard Kenner
1998-02-11  0:00       ` The Goobers
1998-02-11  0:00         ` Frank A. Adrian
1998-02-12  0:00           ` docdwarf
1998-02-12  0:00             ` Frank A. Adrian
1998-02-12  0:00               ` docdwarf
1998-02-12  0:00                 ` Frank A. Adrian
1998-02-12  0:00                   ` docdwarf
1998-02-12  0:00                     ` dogmat
1998-02-13  0:00                       ` Ethics Gradient
1998-02-13  0:00                     ` Steven B Mohler
1998-02-18  0:00                       ` Mad Hamish
1998-02-14  0:00                     ` Richard Kenner
1998-02-14  0:00                       ` The Goobers
1998-02-13  0:00             ` Steven B Mohler
1998-02-14  0:00               ` The Goobers
1998-02-13  0:00             ` Ethics Gradient
1998-02-15  0:00               ` Flaagg
1998-02-16  0:00                 ` The Goobers
1998-02-16  0:00                   ` Flaagg
1998-02-16  0:00                     ` The Goobers
1998-02-17  0:00                       ` Flaagg
1998-02-17  0:00                         ` The Goobers
1998-02-17  0:00                     ` Anthony Jenkins
1998-02-18  0:00                       ` Sakurambo
1998-02-19  0:00                         ` Vinay Mutha
1998-02-20  0:00                           ` WeeSaul
1998-02-21  0:00                             ` Sakurambo
1998-02-21  0:00                               ` The Goobers
1998-02-19  0:00                         ` Dave Hillstrom
1998-02-16  0:00               ` WeeSaul
1998-02-12  0:00           ` Peter Hermann
1998-02-13  0:00           ` Ethics Gradient
1998-02-19  0:00             ` Paulo Pena
1998-02-19  0:00               ` Dik T. Winter
1998-02-19  0:00                 ` D J Mann
1998-02-19  0:00                   ` Harold Stevens ** PLEASE SEE SIG **
1998-02-19  0:00                   ` Kaz Kylheku
     [not found]                     ` <6cigl4$m11@news.Hawaii.Edu>
1998-02-20  0:00                       ` Paul Stevenson
1998-02-20  0:00                         ` The Goobers
1998-03-02  0:00             ` Mailuser
1998-02-12  0:00         ` Eric Clayberg
1998-02-11  0:00           ` Dietmar Stumpe
1998-02-11  0:00             ` Patricia Shanahan
1998-02-12  0:00               ` Michael Entwistle
1998-02-12  0:00                 ` docdwarf
1998-02-12  0:00               ` Chris Gray
1998-02-12  0:00             ` Stephen Taylor
1998-02-12  0:00               ` John W. Lewellen
1998-02-12  0:00             ` docdwarf
1998-02-12  0:00             ` Michael Rubenstein
1998-02-12  0:00               ` James Giles
1998-02-12  0:00                 ` Michael Rubenstein
1998-02-12  0:00                   ` James Giles
1998-02-13  0:00                     ` Michael Rubenstein
1998-02-13  0:00                       ` Benz
1998-02-13  0:00                       ` James Giles
1998-02-17  0:00                         ` K. C. Putnam
1998-02-17  0:00                           ` gypsy
1998-02-12  0:00               ` docdwarf
1998-02-12  0:00                 ` Michael Rubenstein
1998-02-12  0:00                   ` The Goobers
1998-02-13  0:00               ` Tor Iver Wilhelmsen
1998-02-12  0:00           ` docdwarf
     [not found]             ` <01bd37cf$fa30c4e0$56dacdcf@ms112188.mindspring.com>
1998-02-12  0:00               ` docdwarf
1998-02-12  0:00                 ` Michael Rot13 Klein
1998-02-12  0:00                   ` The Goobers
1998-02-12  0:00         ` Will Rose
1998-02-12  0:00           ` docdwarf
     [not found]             ` <01bd3803$441d4c30$ee6de288@ato-10098>
1998-02-13  0:00               ` Jeff York
1998-02-13  0:00                 ` docdwarf
1998-02-13  0:00                   ` M.L. Scott
1998-02-13  0:00                     ` The Goobers
1998-02-13  0:00               ` The Goobers
1998-02-16  0:00             ` tgg
1998-02-16  0:00               ` The Goobers
1998-02-16  0:00             ` tgg
1998-02-16  0:00               ` The Goobers
1998-02-17  0:00                 ` martin dowie
1998-02-14  0:00       ` cyanide
1998-02-17  0:00       ` Joseph T. Adams
1998-02-17  0:00         ` Richard Kenner
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