Slightly OT: Linux distributions and Ada

Slightly OT: Linux distributions and Ada

[Tomek Walkuski]

Hi,

I've been using Gentoo since 2004 and it has IMO marvelous Ada
support, but I need something more "enterprise class" distribution, in
which I have many things out of the box (I don't have time to tinker
all the time, despite Gentoo is for lazy people after a few-days
installation :) ).

Which distribution has good support for Ada? Or maybe step further...
another OS (not Linux: BSD? (Open)Solaris?)?

I think to give a try to Fedora (there will be F9 in April, and that
brings CentOS 6).

Re: Slightly OT: Linux distributions and Ada

[Ludovic Brenta]

Tomek Walkuski wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I've been using Gentoo since 2004 and it has IMO marvelous Ada
> support, but I need something more "enterprise class" distribution, in
> which I have many things out of the box (I don't have time to tinker
> all the time, despite Gentoo is for lazy people after a few-days
> installation :) ).
>
> Which distribution has good support for Ada? Or maybe step further...
> another OS (not Linux: BSD? (Open)Solaris?)?
>
> I think to give a try to Fedora (there will be F9 in April, and that
> brings CentOS 6).

If you want an "enterprise" distribution, rule out all "community"
distributions; go for Red Hat Enterprise Linux or SuSE Linux
Enterprise or Solaris (not "Open" or "Express"), plus a supported
version of GNAT Pro, and make sure you pay the subscription services
for all.

If you want a "quasi-enterprise" distribution:

Debian stable. Install once per machine then forget about it. 18-month
(approximately) release cycle; in-place upgrades when you choose (i.e.
no reinstallation from scratch, no forced upgrades). Prebuilt binary
packages for 12 architectures (i.e. you never need to recompile). All
Ada libraries adhere to a common Debian Policy for Ada [1]: compiled
with the same compiler so you can use all of them in the same program;
all come with a standard GNAT project file; all come in shared and
static versions. GNAT library under GMGPL so you can make proprietary
programs with it (but most of the other libraries are pure GPL). Many
Ada packages. Clear and consistent roadmap for future development as
far as Ada is concerned. Independent consultants available for support
worldwide, but no central authority to turn to.

[1] http://www.ada-france.org/debian/debian-ada-policy.html

PS. The transition to GCC 4.3 I described earlier applies to the next
version of Debian; you can continue using 4.0 "Etch" (or 3.1 "Sarge"
for that matter) for as long as you like.

PPS. Of course I'm partial, don't be surprised :)

PPPS. I don't think this is off-topic at all :)

--
Ludovic Brenta.

Re: Slightly OT: Linux distributions and Ada

[Tomek Walkuski]

On Feb 5, 3:51 pm, Ludovic Brenta <ludo...@ludovic-brenta.org> wrote:
> If you want a "quasi-enterprise" distribution:
>
Yes, "quasi-enterprise". I think CentOS is "quasi-enterprise".

This Debian policy applies also to Ubuntu?

Re: Slightly OT: Linux distributions and Ada

[Ludovic Brenta]

Tomek Walkuski wrote:
> On Feb 5, 3:51 pm, Ludovic Brenta <ludo...@ludovic-brenta.org> wrote:
> > If you want a "quasi-enterprise" distribution:
> >
> Yes, "quasi-enterprise". I think CentOS is "quasi-enterprise".

Right, but it doesn't have good Ada support. You'd have to turn to add-
ons such as the GNU Ada project (http://gnuada.sourceforge.net) and,
while I know they support various versions of Fedora, I'm not aware of
any specific support for CentOS.

> This Debian policy applies also to Ubuntu?

Insofar as Ubuntu takes the Debian packages without any changes, yes.
However I do not monitor Ubuntu forums, bug reports or the like. Also,
a 6-month release cycle that does not guarantee that Ada packages are
all in good shape at the time of Ubuntu's release is not "enterprise",
not even "quasi" :)

--
Ludovic Brenta.

Re: Slightly OT: Linux distributions and Ada

[Tomek Walkuski]

It is maybe a silly question, but: are there any gnat-gpl-2007
packages for Debian-like distributions? Is it possible to mix (like
slots in Gentoo) GCC and AdaCore complilers?

Re: Slightly OT: Linux distributions and Ada

[Ludovic Brenta]

Tomek Walkuski writes:
> It is maybe a silly question, but: are there any gnat-gpl-2007
> packages for Debian-like distributions?

Not in .deb format to my knowledge.  I only have time to support one
compiler.  However, it is perfectly possible to install AdaCore's
.tar.gz file on a Debian system.

> Is it possible to mix (like slots in Gentoo) GCC and AdaCore
> complilers?

With free software, anything is possible :)

But Debian does not provide any direct support for this, and this is a
deliberate design decision.  The design goals are:

- to make all Ada libraries and programs binary-compatible; hence they
  must all be compiled with the same compiler.

- to provide a stable, production-worthy development platform: the
  user who writes Ada programs should not have to care about how to
  choose his compiler or configure PATH variables or whatnot.  Just
  "gnatmake".

- to provide precompiled binary packages; therefore Debian cannot
  force the user to recompile any packages.

In short, Debian is perfect for people who want to write and deploy
Ada programs, while Gentoo is perfect for people who want to
experiment with various compiler versions.

Of course, you can still experiment with various compiler versions in
Debian; there are ways like:

- create chroots for alternative environments (e.g. unstable, 32-bit,
  64-bit)

- compile GCC for yourself and install it in /opt/gcc

- install AdaCore's binary distro in /opt/gnat-gpl

but then you have to fiddle with PATH etc.

-- 
Ludovic Brenta.

Re: Slightly OT: Linux distributions and Ada

[Tomek Walkuski]

Now I'm partial, but, for me, Debian "forces" me to use particular
compiler, because of lack of packages in proper (deb) format. :)
Please treat this like a joke, package management and lots of packages
are important to me (and I think not only for me) and can attract
people to distribution. Of course, I can try to produce own packages,
but maybe I don't have knowledge or time.

Of course it is weakness of Linux (and its diversity), not Ada.

Re: Slightly OT: Linux distributions and Ada

[Ludovic Brenta]

Tomek Walkuski writes:
> Now I'm partial, but, for me, Debian "forces" me to use particular
> compiler, because of lack of packages in proper (deb) format. :)

No offense taken.

You did ask for a "quasi-enterprise" distribution, didn't you?  Well
that's what Debian stable is (and it can be full "enterprise" if you
hire contractors for support).

I have explained the target audience for Debian: people who want a
stable platform and don't want to spend their time installing and
configuring packages, checking their PATH, or recompiling the world
because they've upgraded their compiler.  In other words, this is a
distro for the adult in you.  Yes, I "force" you to choose the version
of GCC I have selected.  However I also listen to users when making
that choice.

> Please treat this like a joke, package management and lots of
> packages are important to me (and I think not only for me) and can
> attract people to distribution.

I know that a lot of people are attracted to distributions that allow
them a lot of choice and opportunities to play with the package
manager, and to recompile their software with 4 different compilers to
see which is best.  That's what Gentoo is for.  Gentoo and Debian are
not competitors; they are for different audiences.  I have high
respect for the quality and amount of work the Ada for Gentoo
maintainers have provided.

If you want "quasi-enterprise", Debian stable.
If you want "play with compilers and package manager", Gentoo.

> Of course, I can try to produce own packages, but maybe I don't have
> knowledge or time.

You are welcome to contribute to any distro you choose.  BWT, if you
really want to "play with compilers", nothing beats packaging and
patching GCC in Debian "unstable" :)

> Of course it is weakness of Linux (and its diversity), not Ada.

I'm not sure what you mean by "it".  I see the choice between Gentoo
and Debian as a strength of free software in general: there are
distros for all tastes.  Ada is blessed with *two* excellent distros
for two different target audiences.  The glass is half full :)

-- 
Ludovic Brenta.