Re: Beginner's Language?

[Friedrich Dominicus <frido@q-software-solutions.com>]

David Gillon <david.gillon@baesystems.com> writes:

> I much prefer the following to the example above and I believe that even
> with all comments stripped out it would be inherently easier to
> understand for a struggling student:
> 
> procedure Sum_Five_Values is
> 
>   -- Description : 
>   --   Example showing clear coding practice, sums five integer inputs 
>   --   and displays result
> 
>   -- Input Parameters  : 
>   --   None (uses keyboard)
>   -- Output Parameters : 
>   --   None (uses screen)
> 
>   -- Modification History :
>   --   10-05-2001, Initial version, DWG
>   --   <DD-MM-YYYY>,<Description of change>,<Author>
> 
>   Total_Count   : Integer := 0;
>   Entered_Value : Integer;
> 
> begin
> 
>   -- Sum five inputs from the keyboard
>   for Loop_Counter := 1 .. 5 do
>   begin
>     Put_Line ("Enter an integer value and press return");
>     Get (Entered_Value);
>     Total_Count := Total_Count + Entered_Value;
>   end;
> 
>   -- report the final result to the screen
>   Put("Total Value = ");
>   Put_Line(Total_Count);
> 
> end Sum_Five_Values;
(defun sum-n-numbers (n)
  "Read n numbers from the standard input and add them all"
  (let ((element 0)
        (total-sum 0))
    (loop for i from 1 to n
          do
          (format t "Give me a number please : ")
          (setf element (read))
          (setf total-sum (+ total-sum element))
          
          finally
          (format t "Total Sum = ~A~%" total-sum))))


Now I don't think I ever would write it that way, but hey it's as
verbose as you want it to be ;-)

Now alternatively one could write:
(defun sum-n-numbers (n)
  (loop for i from 1 to n
        for prompt = (format t "Give me a number please ")
        for element = (read)
        sum element into total-sum

        finally (format t "Total Sum = ~A~%" total-sum)))


     
or
(defun sum-n-numbers (n)
  (let ((total-sum 0))
    (dotimes (i n)
      (format t "Give me a number please: ")
      (let ((element (read)))
        (incf total-sum element)))
    (format t "Total Sum = ~A~%" total-sum)
     (values)))

or
....

I doubt that the Basic solution is easier on the eyes for a beginner
than one of the Common Lisp solutions.

Anyway programming I would conclude that learning programming is
work it can be even very hard. As usual if you start with something
completly new you're lost in the details. You do not know what really
is important all looks more or less like black magic. So what a
beginner needs is either a very good book or a good teacher and he/she
must really want to learn programming.

What we never should forget is that having fun while learning is a
maybe not the worst thing. If you can get nice results fast, it's very
encouraging.

One can compare programming with a lot of other things. It's like a
game, a puzzle or like building a model.


Every game has it's rules a puzzle can be build just in one way and
you have to follow a order to get a model build. All this holds for
programming the rules are what the language asks you for, getting the
pieces together will gave the whole picture. If you miss one piece
well, your programm like you puzzle will be incomplete. The model is
the idea you have while working on you program.

I really can't tell what a beginer is looking for, those times are
still gone for me and for you. That means if we show "what we think"
is understandable or "readable" for a beginner, it's nearly completly
irrelevant to them. They have their own idea, there will some which
like C, Assembler, Pascal, Modula-2, C++, Java, Lisp, Haskell or
whatever and find some other things totally stupid.

So I suggest not to put one of the languages down, but assist anyone
who wants to learn programming in whatever you like. Let him/her make
the choice and fine...

Regards
Friedrich