* New Home for Ada-Malaysia @ 1999-12-02 0:00 Adrian Hoe 1999-12-02 0:00 ` Ted Dennison 0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread From: Adrian Hoe @ 1999-12-02 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) Hello All, Ada-Malaysia has moved to new home at http://greenlime.com/Ada-Malaysia. Enjoy surfing! -- Adrian BY, Hoe -------------- Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: New Home for Ada-Malaysia 1999-12-02 0:00 New Home for Ada-Malaysia Adrian Hoe @ 1999-12-02 0:00 ` Ted Dennison 1999-12-02 0:00 ` Robert I. Eachus 1999-12-03 0:00 ` Pascal Obry 0 siblings, 2 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Ted Dennison @ 1999-12-02 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) In article <824s0t$h2r$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, Adrian Hoe <byhoe@my-deja.com> wrote: > Ada-Malaysia has moved to new home at > http://greenlime.com/Ada-Malaysia. There's an Ada/Linux success story on that site that's worth a read ( http://greenlime.com/Ada-Malaysia/success_story_1.html ). The project was the complete reimplementation of a system, and the realtive statistics for the two systems are quite striking. Of course one could argue that a complete redesign in *any* langauge might have achived similar benifits. -- T.E.D. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: New Home for Ada-Malaysia 1999-12-02 0:00 ` Ted Dennison @ 1999-12-02 0:00 ` Robert I. Eachus 1999-12-03 0:00 ` Pascal Obry 1 sibling, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Robert I. Eachus @ 1999-12-02 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) Ted Dennison wrote: > Of course one could argue that a complete redesign in *any* langauge > might have achived similar benifits. "..and I can call Spirits from the Vasty Deep." "Why, so can I. So can any man. But do they come when you call them?" (From Shakespeare's The Tempest) You could so argue. But I don't think I, or any software engineer, would believe you after seeing those graphs. The relative costs and downtime are impressive, but what is even more impressive is the contrast between steady increases for version 2, and fast decreases toward zero for the Ada version. -- Robert I. Eachus with Standard_Disclaimer; use Standard_Disclaimer; function Message (Text: in Clever_Ideas) return Better_Ideas is... ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: New Home for Ada-Malaysia 1999-12-02 0:00 ` Ted Dennison 1999-12-02 0:00 ` Robert I. Eachus @ 1999-12-03 0:00 ` Pascal Obry 1999-12-03 0:00 ` Larry Kilgallen 1 sibling, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread From: Pascal Obry @ 1999-12-03 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) [-- Warning: decoded text below may be mangled, UTF-8 assumed --] [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1597 bytes --] Ted Dennison <dennison@telepath.com> a �crit dans le message : 8260kf$aan$1@nnrp1.deja.com... > In article <824s0t$h2r$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, > Adrian Hoe <byhoe@my-deja.com> wrote: > > > Ada-Malaysia has moved to new home at > > http://greenlime.com/Ada-Malaysia. > > There's an Ada/Linux success story on that site that's worth a read ( > http://greenlime.com/Ada-Malaysia/success_story_1.html ). The project > was the complete reimplementation of a system, and the realtive > statistics for the two systems are quite striking. > > Of course one could argue that a complete redesign in *any* langauge > might have achived similar benifits. I would not have assumed that for the "Down Time". One could expect to see more problems during the first months for the new version. That's a real nice feedback ! Pascal. -- --|------------------------------------------------------------ --| Pascal Obry Team-Ada Member | --| | --| EDF-DER-IPN-SID- T T I | --| Intranet: http://cln46gb | --| Bureau N-023 e-mail: pascal.obry@edf.fr | --| 1 Av G�n�ral de Gaulle voice : +33-1-47.65.50.91 | --| 92141 Clamart CEDEX fax : +33-1-47.65.50.07 | --| FRANCE | --|------------------------------------------------------------ --| --| http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/pascal_obry --| --| "The best way to travel is by means of imagination" ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: New Home for Ada-Malaysia 1999-12-03 0:00 ` Pascal Obry @ 1999-12-03 0:00 ` Larry Kilgallen 1999-12-05 0:00 ` Adrian Hoe 1999-12-05 0:00 ` Adrian Hoe 0 siblings, 2 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Larry Kilgallen @ 1999-12-03 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) [-- Warning: decoded text below may be mangled, UTF-8 assumed --] [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 917 bytes --] In article <828522$bho$1@clnews.edf.fr>, "Pascal Obry" <p.obry@der.edf.fr> writes: > > Ted Dennison <dennison@telepath.com> a �crit dans le message : > 8260kf$aan$1@nnrp1.deja.com... >> There's an Ada/Linux success story on that site that's worth a read ( >> http://greenlime.com/Ada-Malaysia/success_story_1.html ). The project >> was the complete reimplementation of a system, and the realtive >> statistics for the two systems are quite striking. >> >> Of course one could argue that a complete redesign in *any* langauge >> might have achived similar benifits. > > I would not have assumed that for the "Down Time". One could expect to > see more problems during the first months for the new version. That's a > real nice feedback ! That success story looked _so_ good (in general) as to be questionable. Has anyone obtained independent corroboration, other than reading this web site ? Larry Kilgallen ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: New Home for Ada-Malaysia 1999-12-03 0:00 ` Larry Kilgallen @ 1999-12-05 0:00 ` Adrian Hoe 1999-12-05 0:00 ` Larry Kilgallen [not found] ` <01bf3ef8$ebdec540$022a6282@dieppe> 1999-12-05 0:00 ` Adrian Hoe 1 sibling, 2 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Adrian Hoe @ 1999-12-05 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) [-- Warning: decoded text below may be mangled, UTF-8 assumed --] [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1943 bytes --] In article <1999Dec3.104237.1@eisner>, Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam wrote: > In article <828522$bho$1@clnews.edf.fr>, "Pascal Obry" <p.obry@der.edf.fr> writes: > > > > Ted Dennison <dennison@telepath.com> a �crit dans le message : > > 8260kf$aan$1@nnrp1.deja.com... > > >> There's an Ada/Linux success story on that site that's worth a read ( > >> http://greenlime.com/Ada-Malaysia/success_story_1.html ). The project > >> was the complete reimplementation of a system, and the realtive > >> statistics for the two systems are quite striking. > >> > >> Of course one could argue that a complete redesign in *any* langauge > >> might have achived similar benifits. > > > > I would not have assumed that for the "Down Time". One could expect to > > see more problems during the first months for the new version. That's a > > real nice feedback ! Well, it took Lexical's team four years to complete the entire systems and during the process, they had given all their best into every single LOC squeezed out of their brain cells. Separate testing and debugging sessions were exercised during the course. 25 hours of downtime for V3 in the first month compare to 75 hours for v2 is not too far apart. > > That success story looked _so_ good (in general) as to be questionable. My team has given every efforts to compile, if not accurate, near-accurate statistics for the purpose. If anyone has doubts, please contact those contact persons listed at the end of the document. I am sure they will give every best they have to answer your questions. > Has anyone obtained independent corroboration, other than reading this > web site ? > > Larry Kilgallen > My team members are quite sad on the feedbacks on CLA. For Ada sake, these people are trying to give their best in helping to promote Ada in Malaysia. Why put down their spirit??? -- Adrian BY, Hoe -------------- Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: New Home for Ada-Malaysia 1999-12-05 0:00 ` Adrian Hoe @ 1999-12-05 0:00 ` Larry Kilgallen 1999-12-06 0:00 ` katy_yong [not found] ` <01bf3ef8$ebdec540$022a6282@dieppe> 1 sibling, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread From: Larry Kilgallen @ 1999-12-05 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) In article <82ctkj$ti$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, Adrian Hoe <byhoe@my-deja.com> writes: > My team members are quite sad on the feedbacks on CLA. For Ada sake, > these people are trying to give their best in helping to promote Ada in > Malaysia. Why put down their spirit??? I had not seen any discussion other than "the report looks great". My only interest was to ensure that we didn't _all_ say that and end up with egg on our face by discovering that there was no such project or no such company. My feeling is that this report will end up being quite famous. Knowing that there is a human on CLA who can discuss the project and answer questions gives me reassurance. That being said, I personally have no further questions. Larry Kilgallen ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: New Home for Ada-Malaysia 1999-12-05 0:00 ` Larry Kilgallen @ 1999-12-06 0:00 ` katy_yong 0 siblings, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: katy_yong @ 1999-12-06 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) In article <1999Dec5.101105.1@eisner>, Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam wrote: > In article <82ctkj$ti$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, Adrian Hoe <byhoe@my-deja.com> writes: > > > My team members are quite sad on the feedbacks on CLA. For Ada sake, > > these people are trying to give their best in helping to promote Ada in > > Malaysia. Why put down their spirit??? > > I had not seen any discussion other than "the report looks great". > My only interest was to ensure that we didn't _all_ say that and > end up with egg on our face by discovering that there was no such > project or no such company. My feeling is that this report will > end up being quite famous. > > Knowing that there is a human on CLA who can discuss the project > and answer questions gives me reassurance. That being said, I > personally have no further questions. > > Larry Kilgallen > Thanks Adrian (byhoe) for explaining to CLA. The reading on these three graphs look "unrealistic" may have these reasons: 1. The reading for mix-language (V2) may not be accurate, meaning the actual values may be less or more than the published. These reading are gathered from the invoices that we had billed to the clients and there were no remarks indicating which exactly the job categories. Take downtime for example, the reading may include downtime caused by hardware or OS failure which this could never be stated on the old invoices. These invoices are more than 4 years old! 2. The reading for Ada port (V3) look promising 'good' because V3's algorithms and business rules are ported from V2 which had been stable for couple of years. Most of the bugs were being eliminated during design and coding phases. We have got three layers of QA for every lines/modules. We understand CLAs concerns over the authenticity of the study/document. If anyone would like further clarification, he/she is always welcomed. The posts in this thread, no doubt, has put some pressure to my team members. My team and I can comprehend that and I would like to represent them to let you know that this thread has given a lot of valuable experience in posting such success story and we will certainly exercise a more comprehensive practice in future success story. No hard feeling, yeah? :,) Warmest regards and many thanks to all who have visited Ada-Malaysia website and given their valuable and constructive critics. We appreciate very much. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
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* Re: New Home for Ada-Malaysia [not found] ` <01bf3ef8$ebdec540$022a6282@dieppe> @ 1999-12-06 0:00 ` Adrian Hoe 0 siblings, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Adrian Hoe @ 1999-12-06 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) [-- Warning: decoded text below may be mangled, UTF-8 assumed --] [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1161 bytes --] In article <01bf3ef8$ebdec540$022a6282@dieppe>, "Pascal Obry" <pascal_obry@csi.com> wrote: > > > Adrian Hoe <byhoe@my-deja.com> a �crit dans l'article > <82ctkj$ti$1@nnrp1.deja.com>... > > My team members are quite sad on the feedbacks on CLA. For Ada sake, > > these people are trying to give their best in helping to promote Ada in > > Malaysia. Why put down their spirit??? > > I don't think that was the goal here. Just that your data are so good that > everybody > was in right to doubt a bit :-) Anyway it is definitly a very good > feedbacks given > your comments. Thanks for the effort, I do know that it is not that easy to > build > this kind of statistics. > > Bear in mind that we are certainly all here to promote Ada, but for that we > must > just be careful to not buy blindly any comment we can found on the Web :-) > This > will for sure deserve Ada greatly! We can't deny this site look so `great' that some further comments have been left out. > Again, thanks for the data, I have bookmarked this page :) thanks for bookmarking the site. Adrian BY, Hoe -------------- Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: New Home for Ada-Malaysia 1999-12-03 0:00 ` Larry Kilgallen 1999-12-05 0:00 ` Adrian Hoe @ 1999-12-05 0:00 ` Adrian Hoe 1 sibling, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Adrian Hoe @ 1999-12-05 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) [-- Warning: decoded text below may be mangled, UTF-8 assumed --] [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 3263 bytes --] In article <1999Dec3.104237.1@eisner>, Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam wrote: > In article <828522$bho$1@clnews.edf.fr>, "Pascal Obry" <p.obry@der.edf.fr> writes: > > > > Ted Dennison <dennison@telepath.com> a �crit dans le message : > > 8260kf$aan$1@nnrp1.deja.com... > > >> There's an Ada/Linux success story on that site that's worth a read ( > >> http://greenlime.com/Ada-Malaysia/success_story_1.html ). The project > >> was the complete reimplementation of a system, and the realtive > >> statistics for the two systems are quite striking. > >> > >> Of course one could argue that a complete redesign in *any* langauge > >> might have achived similar benifits. > > > > I would not have assumed that for the "Down Time". One could expect to > > see more problems during the first months for the new version. That's a > > real nice feedback ! > > That success story looked _so_ good (in general) as to be questionable. > Has anyone obtained independent corroboration, other than reading this > web site ? > > Larry Kilgallen > The graphs showed the averaged values. Take support costs for instance, both cost for mix language application (version 2) and version 3 indicates the averaged costs taken into account of man-hours involved to pinpoint a software bugs that include rectifying the problem. Version 2 showed at high of RM7500 for the first month of implementation compare to version 3 of the first month of implementation. It's clearly that to debug version 2, will involve more developers than version 3 becuase of the mixed-language modules in version2. But the readers have to take the version 3, which is built on top of the stabilized version 2 into account. Here, it will be difficult to separate the actual cost of debugging a stable codes and unstable codes. We take into accounts of the jobs done onto reported bugs. The number of reported bugs in version 3 is actually almost equaled to version 2. this statistic was not shown. But bear in mind that the bugs in V3 are a mix of human-causes and algorithms. On down time, integration between debugged modules and other existing modules are relatively easier. In v2, debugging a single modules with bug(s) involved other modules dued to language interfacing. That means shutdown of other modules as well. Hence resulting the increased downtime for v2 compared to v3. We don't guarantee the accuracy of the graphs (v2 values are based on total amounts billed to our client. For that time, we did not intend to collect this kind of statistics) but we had done the best to take all values into accounts. We don't have any independent corroborations on this. Lexical has done her best in compiling the statistics for the sake of comparing Ada to other languages. The statistics were intended for internal studies only but we decided to share this with other Ada advocates and those who have interests in Ada. It is up to individual to interpret the message we are trying to deliver. But if one needs further explanation, they can always contact those persons listed at the end of the document. We will most certainly give our best to explain. Hope this give a statisfying feedback everyone. -- Adrian BY, Hoe -------------- Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~1999-12-06 0:00 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 10+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 1999-12-02 0:00 New Home for Ada-Malaysia Adrian Hoe 1999-12-02 0:00 ` Ted Dennison 1999-12-02 0:00 ` Robert I. Eachus 1999-12-03 0:00 ` Pascal Obry 1999-12-03 0:00 ` Larry Kilgallen 1999-12-05 0:00 ` Adrian Hoe 1999-12-05 0:00 ` Larry Kilgallen 1999-12-06 0:00 ` katy_yong [not found] ` <01bf3ef8$ebdec540$022a6282@dieppe> 1999-12-06 0:00 ` Adrian Hoe 1999-12-05 0:00 ` Adrian Hoe
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