Re: off-topic ...

Re: off-topic ...

[Peter Milliken]

I don't find in all that strange. Such information regarding Fortran and C++
compilers is (presumably) generally because they have just implemented some
(new/existing) feature of the language i.e. their product has "grown" in some
dimension etc Whereas, Ada has a well recognised standard, the compiler either
comforms (in which case it is released and sold) or it doesn't conform (in
which case it is not yet on the market :-)). The only thing Ada vendors can
"brag" about is either additions wrt the Annexes (which you do see as
announcements) or bug fixes (which no-one really wants to noise about anyway
:-)).

Peter

nobat wrote:

> I was checking the website of different commercial Ada compiler vendors. I
> was surprised that none of these companies give version of their compilers
> (say for example Ada compiler version 3.5), what is new in the latest
> release and what are the improvements in comparison to older versions (this
> is a common practice for Fortran and C++ vendors)...I find it somehow
> strange...

Re: off-topic ...

[Ted Dennison]

In article <38336E5A.D744214E@australia.boeing.com>,
  Peter Milliken <peter.milliken@australia.boeing.com> wrote:

> which case it is not yet on the market :-)). The only thing Ada
> vendors can "brag" about is either additions wrt the Annexes (which
> you do see as announcements) or bug fixes (which no-one really wants
> to noise about anyway :-)).

...or perhaps actually implementing the implementation advice. :-)

--
T.E.D.


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Re: off-topic ...

[Nobat]

Hi Peter,
Thank you for you comments;

Please note I am not criticizing anyone. I only found this business model
very different from other compiler Vendors. (I am not neither expert in
Business nor in Ada95). I think aggressive presentation of Ada compiler in
vendor websites and other high-traffic websites (Developer.com, Planet IT,
CNET, ZDNET,..look at JAVE companies), as well as advertising in
professional journals (talking about advantages of using Ada95, advertising
some of success stories), talking with proud about new implemented features
and benchmark results (developing and distributing some home-made
benchmarks),etc. would probably help the Ada vendors and community ...
IMHO, you cannot sell an excellent product without aggressively presenting
it...(maybe I am wrong)
Regards;
Nobat


news:38336E5A.D744214E@australia.boeing.com...
> I don't find in all that strange. Such information regarding Fortran and
C++
> compilers is (presumably) generally because they have just implemented
some
> (new/existing) feature of the language i.e. their product has "grown" in
some
> dimension etc Whereas, Ada has a well recognised standard, the compiler
either
> comforms (in which case it is released and sold) or it doesn't conform (in
> which case it is not yet on the market :-)). The only thing Ada vendors
can
> "brag" about is either additions wrt the Annexes (which you do see as
> announcements) or bug fixes (which no-one really wants to noise about
anyway
> :-)).
>

Re: off-topic ...

[Marin Condic]

Peter Milliken wrote:

> I don't find in all that strange. Such information regarding Fortran and C++
> compilers is (presumably) generally because they have just implemented some
> (new/existing) feature of the language i.e. their product has "grown" in some
> dimension etc Whereas, Ada has a well recognised standard, the compiler either
> comforms (in which case it is released and sold) or it doesn't conform (in
> which case it is not yet on the market :-)). The only thing Ada vendors can
> "brag" about is either additions wrt the Annexes (which you do see as
> announcements) or bug fixes (which no-one really wants to noise about anyway
> :-)).
>

Well, couldn't they possibly brag about additional support tools or compiler
specific libraries? I notice that GNAT typically comes with a few new tools
bundled in with a new release. It quite often comes with some new capabilities -
cross reference listing, better integration with AdaGIDE, etc. Or there are
libraries like the Win32Ada stuff or new GNAT.Something files. Other vendors must
have similar stuff to brag about, eh?

I've had older Ada compilers where the company had some form of formal change
control process & they would list closed out change requests that were included in
a new release. Many were bug fixes, but a lot were improvements (various
optimizations in generated code, etc.). Maybe the vendor of your choice has some
similar process - just not advertised on the web page. There often is no
substitute for calling some sales associate in the company and asking a few
questions.

MDC
--
Marin David Condic
If you hurry you can, for a short time only, still find me at:
Real Time & Embedded Systems, Propulsion Systems Analysis
United Technologies, Pratt & Whitney, Large Military Engines
M/S 731-95, P.O.B. 109600, West Palm Beach, FL, 33410-9600
***To reply, remove "bogon" from the domain name.***

Visit my web page at: http://www.mcondic.com/

off-topic ...

[nobat]

I was checking the website of different commercial Ada compiler vendors. I
was surprised that none of these companies give version of their compilers
(say for example Ada compiler version 3.5), what is new in the latest
release and what are the improvements in comparison to older versions (this
is a common practice for Fortran and C++ vendors)...I find it somehow
strange...

Re: off-topic ...

[Vladimir Olensky]

Robert Dewar wrote in message <812o0p$1n7$1@nnrp1.deja.com>...

> Each new version of GNAT has many valuable new features.
> Here is a little preview of some new features in the next version
>of GNAT for example:


>
>  The NT version of GNAT now generates object files that are
>  fully compatible with the standard Microsoft linker, so this
>  linker can be used instead of the GNU ld program to build NT
>  executables.


This would be  a great leap forward  on the NT platform !!!
Ability to work with the platform native linker would give a
lot of advantages.
I understand that this also would make it much simpler to
build DLLs.

Will  there be an option to tell GNAT which linker to use ?

One of the very important  advantages would also be the ability to
remove unreferenced  code in the executable, provided that
GNAT compiler would have the  option  that allows the compiler
to package individual  functions in  the form of packaged
functions (COMDATs). MS linker  requires that functions be
packaged separately as COMDATs to exclude or order individual
functions in a DLL or .EXE file.

Then we will be able to use the MS linker's /OPT:REF option to exclude
unreferenced packaged functions from the .EXE file.

After that GNAT will be highly competitive with other software development
tools for WinNT ( including MSVC itself).

Another great feature would be direct support of Pentium II and above
streaming SIMD extensions and MMXT technology which is extremely
important in signal processing.
Now one need to use assembler to be able to use that  in Ada.

Regards,
Vladimir Olensky

Re: off-topic ...

[Nobat]

"Robert Dewar" <dewar@gnat.com> wrote in message
>
> I can't speak for any other vendor. But Ada Core Technologies
> always provides detailed lists of improvements in each new
> version. This is the file features included in the release.
> I also post the contents of this file on CLA each time a new
> version of GNAT is released.
>

Thank you for your comments;



> I agree that this is important information
>
> Of course it may be that you just did not check carefully
> enough in the case of other vendors!
>

It is quite possible, and I hope I just did not check carefully...

Every time I stopped in Borland Inspire website: I found enough information
related to their products such as demos, white papers, presentations,
success stories, new enhancements, compiler specification,...  to find
myself directly in Buy-on-Line area (without actually contacting to their
sales personnel). When I check  Fortran Vendors websites (Lahey, Compaq,
...) I find enough information related to the last version, new
enhancements, Compiler speed, debugging technology, Optimization Procedures,
Adds-in Products and ...  this means that when you talk to a salesman you
are almost sure that you will buy it.  (and many many other examples)

Nevertheless, when I checked Ada Compiler Vendors websites I didn't feel the
same (No sufficient information, thus no Buy-on-Line area)

I still hope I just did not check carefully...

I apologize to everyone for provoking this off-topic discussion


Nobat

Re: off-topic ...

[Robert Dewar]

In article <kDdZ3.4725$0c2.83998@carnaval.risq.qc.ca>,
  "Nobat" <nobat@hotmail.com> wrote:
>(No sufficient information, thus no Buy-on-Line area)

At least speaking for Ada Core Technologies, our services are
definitely not in the Buy-on-Line category. We find that we
need to discuss specific needs with each potential customer
directly.

Of course, in the case of GNAT, you can always download the
public version to get the full documentation (including the
features file), and use it to kick the tires and see what
is there. For any serious evaluation, we suggest you contact
sales@gnat.com to set up a formal evaluation.

Robert Dewar
Ada Core Technologies


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Re: off-topic ...

[Robert Dewar]

In article <ehIY3.7063$7m.380540@newshog.newsread.com>,
  "nobat" <nobat@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I was checking the website of different commercial Ada
compiler vendors. I
> was surprised that none of these companies give version of
their compilers
> (say for example Ada compiler version 3.5), what is new in the
latest
> release and what are the improvements in comparison to older
versions (this
> is a common practice for Fortran and C++ vendors)...I find it
somehow
> strange...


I can't speak for any other vendor. But Ada Core Technologies
always provides detailed lists of improvements in each new
version. This is the file features included in the release.
I also post the contents of this file on CLA each time a new
version of GNAT is released.

I agree that this is important information

Of course it may be that you just did not check carefully
enough in the case of other vendors!

Robert Dewar
Ada Core Technologies


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Re: off-topic ...

[Robert Dewar]

In article <38336E5A.D744214E@australia.boeing.com>,
  Peter Milliken <peter.milliken@australia.boeing.com> wrote:

> The only thing Ada vendors can
> "brag" about is either additions wrt the Annexes (which you do
> see as announcements) or bug fixes (which no-one really wants
> to noise about anyway

That's really quite wrong! We have literally hundreds of ideas
for enhancements that come from us and our customers. Each
new version of GNAT has many valuable new features. Here
is a little preview of some new features in the next version
of GNAT for example:

  It is now permissible to specify the non-default Bit_Order
  for record subtypes.  Component clauses for such types must
  either specify an integral number of bytes, or the component
  must lie entirely within one byte.  Note that, in accordance
  with the RM, no reordering of bytes is done, the only effect
  is to renumber bits.  This feature is therefore only of
  limited use in dealing with big/little-endian interfacing.

  The listing generated by the -gnatR switch now includes
  alignment values for array and record types.

  The NT version of GNAT now generates object files that are
  fully compatible with the standard Microsoft linker, so this
  linker can be used instead of the GNU ld program to build NT
  executables.

  New restrictions No_Implicit_Conditionals and
  No_Implicit_Loops have been added for greater control over
  generated code.  This is particularly useful in a
  safety-critical/certification environment using GNORT (GNAT
  with no run time)

  A new package GNAT.Calendar.Time_IO is provided.  This
  package implements formatted output of Ada.Calendar.Time.
  The format string uses a format similar to the one used by
  the date UNIX command.

This is just a small random selection, the list is
already about 50 items long, and we are not yet
at the release point.


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Re: off-topic ...

[Robert Dewar]

In article <8113an$pq8$1@nnrp1.deja.com>,
  Ted Dennison <dennison@telepath.com> wrote:

> ...or perhaps actually implementing the implementation advice.

What is it with T.E.D. and implementation advice, have you
had bad experience with a vendor not implementing the advice,
or is it just a theoretical hobby horse?


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