ada in australia, to the mystery emailer

ada in australia, to the mystery emailer

[G]

  Someone asked me about ada in australia and i replied by email.  They
said they saw me write here and then when I got the email back with one
of those little messages to the effect that they did not actually exist
(as that email) I figured something silly was going on.

  I think he said his name was David Riehle and that he would be in
Australia for seminars or something.  He asked if there is much of an
ada 'scene' (not in so many words) in Australia and I though I had
better try and reply through here.

  Answer is, I have no idea.  Going from the newspapers and the
advertisements for jobs in IT sections - I have not seen Ada mentioned
even once.  I know that there are probably a variety of organisation
which do use it here, or teach it at least, but in answer to the man's
question, again- in as much as I know... it isn't big here, but I don't
know much.

OK, so if something went wrong with your email, Mystery mailer - I
replied here as well.
OK

-G

Re: ada in australia, to the mystery emailer

[Robert Dewar]

In article <382E91FF.621BB2DB@interact.net.au>,
  G <Dizzy@interact.net.au> wrote:

There are many Ada users in Australia. One large scale example
is the JORN project (they refer informally to the "billion
dollar JORN project" which gives an idea of the scale, although
this is of course Australian dollars :-), which does the early
warning radar system. They are among several Ada Core
Technologies customers in Australia.

Robert Dewar
Ada Core Technologies


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Before you buy.

Re: ada in australia, to the mystery emailer

[Peter Milliken]

In addition to Robert's reference to JORN. The Combat System on the Collins
Class sub (you may have heard mention of it in the papers and on the TV?
:-)) is written in Ada. Most, if not all defence companies in Australia
have done at least one project using Ada. It has been in use since at least
the mid-80's here. Most issues of the Australian have at least one
advertisement with Ada somewhere in it, there is always a cronic shortage
of experience Ada programmers here (like anywhere else :-)). But it is a
fairly limited "scene" due to the target audience (defence contractors).

Peter

G wrote:

>   Someone asked me about ada in australia and i replied by email.  They
> said they saw me write here and then when I got the email back with one
> of those little messages to the effect that they did not actually exist
> (as that email) I figured something silly was going on.
>
>   I think he said his name was David Riehle and that he would be in
> Australia for seminars or something.  He asked if there is much of an
> ada 'scene' (not in so many words) in Australia and I though I had
> better try and reply through here.
>
>   Answer is, I have no idea.  Going from the newspapers and the
> advertisements for jobs in IT sections - I have not seen Ada mentioned
> even once.  I know that there are probably a variety of organisation
> which do use it here, or teach it at least, but in answer to the man's
> question, again- in as much as I know... it isn't big here, but I don't
> know much.
>
> OK, so if something went wrong with your email, Mystery mailer - I
> replied here as well.
> OK
>
> -G

Re: ada in australia, to the mystery emailer

[Geoff Bull]

G wrote:
> 
>   Someone asked me about ada in australia 
>
>   Answer is, I have no idea.  Going from the newspapers and the
> advertisements for jobs in IT sections - I have not seen Ada mentioned
> even once. 

Maybe you just didn't look hard enough amongst the sea of Visual C++ and
and Visual basic ads.

The Sydney Morning Herald's job search page,
http://www.itjobs.fairfax.com.au/ finds 19 Ada jobs.
Some of these will be duplicates at different agencies, and some
are looking for C/C++ programmers whith Ada awareness. That still leaves
maybe a half dozen jobs that you can apply for today.

Of course, searching for other languages finds a lot more jobs:
C++     :1095
Java    : 584
Basic   : 449
Perl    : 230
COBOL   : 182
Ada     :  19
Fortran :   3

At least we don't get the wooden spoon!

The press simply isn't interested in Ada.
When the Collins submarine software had performance problems,
the press blamed the hardware, there was no mention of the
language used (presumably Ada). If a journo saw the word Ada,
they probably didn't know what it was.

On the other hand, when the stock exchange implemented a new system in
C++ there was a huge write up about what they'd done to eliminate all
those pesky memory leaks that can't be tolerated in a 24x7 system.
I suspect that particular article was sponsored by a tools vendor.

Cheers
Geoff

Re: ada in australia, to the mystery emailer

[G]

Yes, I knew that ADF used it, or so I deduced from the online listing for adfa
courses.

Nice to know someone uses it then, so if I spend years learning then it might
be worth something.
:-)
-Graeme

Peter Milliken wrote:

> In addition to Robert's reference to JORN. The Combat System on the Collins
> Class sub (you may have heard mention of it in the papers and on the TV?
> :-)) is written in Ada. Most, if not all defence companies in Australia
> have done at least one project using Ada. It has been in use since at least
> the mid-80's here. Most issues of the Australian have at least one
> advertisement with Ada somewhere in it, there is always a cronic shortage
> of experience Ada programmers here (like anywhere else :-)). But it is a
> fairly limited "scene" due to the target audience (defence contractors).
>
> Peter
>
> G wrote:
>
> >   Someone asked me about ada in australia and i replied by email.  They
> > said they saw me write here and then when I got the email back with one
> > of those little messages to the effect that they did not actually exist
> > (as that email) I figured something silly was going on.
> >
> >   I think he said his name was David Riehle and that he would be in
> > Australia for seminars or something.  He asked if there is much of an
> > ada 'scene' (not in so many words) in Australia and I though I had
> > better try and reply through here.
> >
> >   Answer is, I have no idea.  Going from the newspapers and the
> > advertisements for jobs in IT sections - I have not seen Ada mentioned
> > even once.  I know that there are probably a variety of organisation
> > which do use it here, or teach it at least, but in answer to the man's
> > question, again- in as much as I know... it isn't big here, but I don't
> > know much.
> >
> > OK, so if something went wrong with your email, Mystery mailer - I
> > replied here as well.
> > OK
> >
> > -G

Re: ada in australia, to the mystery emailer

[G]

Thanks for that.  I am using an aircraft built by Boeing and Sikorsky to
develop
a model project for a simulation.   Freely available online info on the
Comanche.

I find the concepts fascinating.  These aircraft are no less than works of art.

:-)
-G

> In addition to Robert's reference to JORN. The Combat System on the Collins
> Class sub (you may have heard mention of it in the papers and on the TV?
> :-)) is written in Ada. Most, if not all defence companies in Australia
> have done at least one project using Ada. It has been in use since at least
> the mid-80's here. Most issues of the Australian have at least one
> advertisement with Ada somewhere in it, there is always a cronic shortage
> of experience Ada programmers here (like anywhere else :-)). But it is a
> fairly limited "scene" due to the target audience (defence contractors).
>
> Peter

Re: ada in australia, to the mystery emailer

[Robert Dewar]

In article <382FC688.C98B47C4@interact.net.au>,
  G <Dizzy@interact.net.au> wrote:
> Nice to know someone uses it then, so if I spend years

learning then it might
> be worth something.
> :-)


You really can't spend years learning Ada per se (i.e. the
syntax, semantics and style).

You *can* spend years learning how to use Ada well, but most of
this knowledge is in fact language independent. For example,
if you really learn how package abstraction works, you will
be able to use headers in C to achieve many of the same
structuring advantages, even in the absence of critical
capbilities like information hiding.



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Before you buy.

Re: ada in australia, to the mystery emailer

[Richard D Riehle]

In article <382E91FF.621BB2DB@interact.net.au>,
	G <Dizzy@interact.net.au> wrote:

>  Someone asked me about ada in australia and i replied by email.  They
>said they saw me write here and then when I got the email back with one
>of those little messages to the effect that they did not actually exist
>(as that email) I figured something silly was going on.

Someone must have forwarded an email I sent elsewhere to "G".

>  I think he said his name was David Riehle and that he would be in
>Australia for seminars or something.  He asked if there is much of an
>ada 'scene' (not in so many words) in Australia and I though I had
>better try and reply through here.

Although I do like the name, David, I cannot claim it for my own. 
My first name is Richard.   I will be as of Friday of this week on
business and would not object to meeting up with some folks who are
interesting in talking about Ada.  I can be reached by email, 

             richard@adaworks.com

>OK, so if something went wrong with your email, Mystery mailer - I
>replied here as well.

It feels very strange to be called a "Mystery mailer."  I never try
to cover my tracks.   Some probably wish I would.  :-)

Richard Riehle
http://www.adaworks.com
 

Re: ada in australia, to the mystery emailer

[Andrew]

What sort of Comanche simulation are you working on ? Comanche is still in
development. Lots of changes coming down.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Andrew


"G" <Dizzy@interact.net.au> wrote in message
news:382FC770.81CA88A8@interact.net.au...
>
>
> Thanks for that.  I am using an aircraft built by Boeing and Sikorsky to
> develop
> a model project for a simulation.   Freely available online info on the
> Comanche.
>
> I find the concepts fascinating.  These aircraft are no less than works of
art.
>
> :-)
> -G
>
> > In addition to Robert's reference to JORN. The Combat System on the
Collins
> > Class sub (you may have heard mention of it in the papers and on the TV?
> > :-)) is written in Ada. Most, if not all defence companies in Australia
> > have done at least one project using Ada. It has been in use since at
least
> > the mid-80's here. Most issues of the Australian have at least one
> > advertisement with Ada somewhere in it, there is always a cronic
shortage
> > of experience Ada programmers here (like anywhere else :-)). But it is a
> > fairly limited "scene" due to the target audience (defence contractors).
> >
> > Peter
>

Re: ada in australia, to the mystery emailer

[G]

> What sort of Comanche simulation are you working on ? Comanche is still in
> development. Lots of changes coming down.
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> Andrew

Hey... well I am just doing a simple analysis.  I know the Comanche is still
under development.  I have been playing Novalogic's cool-o-rama Comanche PC
flight simulator for several years now.  This got me interested in looking at
the online (freely available) specifications for the RAH66.

I am sort of killing two birds with one stone because I am learning how to
construct
technical specifications with shockwave Flash - I am working on a presentation
for the RAH66.  So, this gives me a lot of time thinking about the various
systems and subsystems.  I am using this to learn how to weave together a
variety of elements into
a simple representation in a package or three which can be imported into a
simple simulation program.  As for the real aircraft, it has some 1.2 million
lines of code, about 83% of which is Ada - rivalling the F22 which has the odd
hundred thousand or more lines, if memory serves me.  So.. consider my
simulation as something less than that... by oh... three or four light-years
distance. :-)

I study philosophy and ontology (and then some), or have done, and these sorts
of mental gymnastics required in type casting, etc. are wonderful.

There is just so much damn technology in the rah66 that I may as well be
simulating a traffic helicopter for my own current ability - but the Comanche is
such a beautiful thing... so that keeps me inspired.  I am more interested in
the patterns of organisation required to simulate than simulation itself,
because I have a helluva lot to learn.

OK
:-)
-Graeme.

Re: ada in australia, to the mystery emailer

[Andrew]

Comanche software is written in Ada. And yes it is complex and it's going to
get more complex. It's going to be awesome. Actually, Comanche avionics is
complex than F-22s. Helicopter is much harder to fly then a plane.

Comanche 3 (Novalogic) is pretty cool.


-------------------------------------------------------------------
Andrew


"G" <Dizzy@interact.net.au> wrote in message
news:38312B69.CD29EC77@interact.net.au...
>
>
>
>
> > What sort of Comanche simulation are you working on ? Comanche is still
in
> > development. Lots of changes coming down.
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Andrew
>
> Hey... well I am just doing a simple analysis.  I know the Comanche is
still
> under development.  I have been playing Novalogic's cool-o-rama Comanche
PC
> flight simulator for several years now.  This got me interested in looking
at
> the online (freely available) specifications for the RAH66.
>
> I am sort of killing two birds with one stone because I am learning how to
> construct
> technical specifications with shockwave Flash - I am working on a
presentation
> for the RAH66.  So, this gives me a lot of time thinking about the various
> systems and subsystems.  I am using this to learn how to weave together a
> variety of elements into
> a simple representation in a package or three which can be imported into a
> simple simulation program.  As for the real aircraft, it has some 1.2
million
> lines of code, about 83% of which is Ada - rivalling the F22 which has the
odd
> hundred thousand or more lines, if memory serves me.  So.. consider my
> simulation as something less than that... by oh... three or four
light-years
> distance. :-)
>
> I study philosophy and ontology (and then some), or have done, and these
sorts
> of mental gymnastics required in type casting, etc. are wonderful.
>
> There is just so much damn technology in the rah66 that I may as well be
> simulating a traffic helicopter for my own current ability - but the
Comanche is
> such a beautiful thing... so that keeps me inspired.  I am more interested
in
> the patterns of organisation required to simulate than simulation itself,
> because I have a helluva lot to learn.
>
> OK
> :-)
> -Graeme.
>

Re: ada in australia, to the mystery emailer

[Andrew]

Regarding Comanche: current system lacks full armament and various sensor
suites. When it's all said and done Comanche will be more s/w intensive then
F-22. Just wait and see. :-)
But as with all military programs it's the politicians who control what gets
done :-(

Armored First 3 I heard is terrible. Go to www.cdmag.com and check out the
Strategy forum. People don't like it. Since Comanche 4 also uses Voxel it
may be in the same boat. That would stink.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Andrew


"G" <Dizzy@interact.net.au> wrote in message
news:38320686.C24EEC11@interact.net.au...
>
>
> Andrew wrote:
>
> > Comanche software is written in Ada. And yes it is complex and it's
going to
> > get more complex. It's going to be awesome. Actually, Comanche avionics
is
> > complex than F-22s. Helicopter is much harder to fly then a plane.
> >
> > Comanche 3 (Novalogic) is pretty cool.
> >
> >
>
> I underwrote the F22 sloc there - a mis-spelling.. should have been
several
> hundred thousand more lines of code than the Comanche quote.  At the time
of the
> graph i saw.
>
> I do suppose that this sort of project - that is, the Rah-66 as a modular,
> versatile and extensible system - it is obviously ideal for what I little
I
> understand of Ada.  I do gather that Ada was tailored to suit large-scale
> systems design and the modularity of the language (what I am calling
object
> oriented stuff and packages, etc. for lack of better understanding) is
obviously
> perfect for extensibility.
>
> From what I can gather from the documentation, the rah66 is designed such
that
> it will be able to assimilate and incorporate maturing and new
technologies when
> and if they arise.
> A flexible system would obviously help there...
>
> Novalogic ::= I play the 3 version but the 4 version is coming out now.
They
> have (apparently) improved the Voxelspace technology for more fluid and
> realistic environment
> and physics.  I was even trying to download the Armored Fist 3 version but
once
> I tried to install it I found that 166 Mhz don't do the deed for the
program - I
> needed a 233 and 64 meg RAM, where I only have 32 - you would think people
might
> mention such things in their download pages, before I proceed with a
marathon
> international 27 megabytes over a standard modem phone line download
hassle
> thing.  Bitch of a thing coz I can not get the new versions of the game.
*sigh*
>
>
> All of which has just about sfa to do with ada...
> :-)
> G
>
>
>

Re: ada in australia, to the mystery emailer

[G]

Andrew wrote:

> Comanche software is written in Ada. And yes it is complex and it's going to
> get more complex. It's going to be awesome. Actually, Comanche avionics is
> complex than F-22s. Helicopter is much harder to fly then a plane.
>
> Comanche 3 (Novalogic) is pretty cool.
>
>

I underwrote the F22 sloc there - a mis-spelling.. should have been several
hundred thousand more lines of code than the Comanche quote.  At the time of the
graph i saw.

I do suppose that this sort of project - that is, the Rah-66 as a modular,
versatile and extensible system - it is obviously ideal for what I little I
understand of Ada.  I do gather that Ada was tailored to suit large-scale
systems design and the modularity of the language (what I am calling object
oriented stuff and packages, etc. for lack of better understanding) is obviously
perfect for extensibility.

From what I can gather from the documentation, the rah66 is designed such that
it will be able to assimilate and incorporate maturing and new technologies when
and if they arise.
A flexible system would obviously help there...

Novalogic ::= I play the 3 version but the 4 version is coming out now.  They
have (apparently) improved the Voxelspace technology for more fluid and
realistic environment
and physics.  I was even trying to download the Armored Fist 3 version but once
I tried to install it I found that 166 Mhz don't do the deed for the program - I
needed a 233 and 64 meg RAM, where I only have 32 - you would think people might
mention such things in their download pages, before I proceed with a marathon
international 27 megabytes over a standard modem phone line download hassle
thing.  Bitch of a thing coz I can not get the new versions of the game. *sigh*


All of which has just about sfa to do with ada...
:-)
G