Re: Thoughts on AdaCore maintaining GCC-incompatible GNAT sources

[deadlyhead <deadlyhead@gmail.com>]

On Jan 20, 1:03 pm, Simon Wright <si...@pushface.org> wrote:
> "Yannick Duchêne (Hibou57)" <yannick_duch...@yahoo.fr> writes:
>
> We don't in general pay AdaCore to get the latest and greatest; we pay
> to get support when we have problems, or need advice, and very good it
> is too.
>
> The project I'm (still, just) working on is stuck with a really old
> compiler, for various reasons I don't think I need trouble you with. The
> general tendency is to start a project with the latest compiler,
> upgrading until some formal customer-visible release point, then freeze;
> only moving up to a new release after that when there's a really good
> reason to do so. AdaCore are still prepared (a bit grumpily, maybe,
> sometimes) to help; but really most of the time it's our understanding
> that's the issue.
>
> As to why we don't copy the latest GNAT Pro to the world -- well, it's
> not I who has the contract, it's my employer, and I don't think I'd get
> very far trying to persuade the boss to permit the copying.

I have no problem, per se, with AdaCore releasing two "versions" of
their compiler... in fact, I have no reason top believe that GNAT Pro
is any different from GNAT GPL, except for the fact that more _binary_
versions of GNAT Pro are released.  It can take a lot of work to
create a binary that will work on many systems (thinking of the GNU/
Linux world, the differences between, say, Debian and Redhat (or
Ubuntu, for that matter!) are not insignificant), and I understand if
AdaCore does not wish to release their "VxWorks hosted on Linux"
binary for any and all to use, just to be inundated with emails from
hobbyists asking why it's not working for them on GoosebumpLinux-
CrazyUnstable.

But then again, this is free software.  There's absolutely no reason
that they should not release buildable _sources_ for said hobbyists to
use.  We know that there is a community of volunteers out there
willing to step up and build on even the most obscure systems (I'm
thinking of the GnuAda project, among others) and release their
knowledge for the benefit of all.  If I could get JGNAT to build, you
_bet_ I'd tell everyone how I did it, probably right here on Usenet
first.  And, if I felt that AdaCore could/would make use of my
findings, I would send it to them specifically, in hopes that the next
release of sources would include the information, maybe even with
their contributions, too.

I'm with Ludovic as far as wishing AdaCore would do their development
in a public branch of GCC, then merge in Stage 1.  I'd love to test
and give feedback as development progresses.  We'd also be able to
test their other technologies at the same time, i.e. pull the latest
revision of the gnat-gcc branch to build against the latest revision
of GPS, fix any incompatibilities, and submit the patch back to GPS.
Less work for AdaCore, better software for the world!

I actually can't see any downside to AdaCore developing on a GCC
branch.  They could release wavefront releases for their paying
customers, just as they currently do, but they'd get the benefit of a
rapid release cycle with full community input just like the rest of
GCC.  They could integrate the Debian-style fix for libaddr2line, etc,
and stop maintaining their own custom binutils, too, and maintain
public sync for all their technologies.  How many more people might
use Ada if the GNAT technologies were as accessible as the rest of
GCC?

As for my activities that prompted my original rant, I'll keep working
on JGNAT for GNU/Linux, probably attempting to build against GCC-trunk
from here on out.  If I can get that working, I'll make sure the
entire world knows.  Also, since I use Debian as my base OS these
days, I'd also like to see if I can backport the build to the Debian
GNAT sources, in which case I'd approach Ludovic specifically.

BTW, I can't stand Java, it makes me feel dirty just to read it, but I
am compelled to develop Android apps, hence trying to build JGNAT.  I
may try binding to the Android NDK at some point, too, but that
requires GNAT-ARM crosstools.  One project at a time...

-- deadlyhead