Re: Kindness

[Robert Dewar <robert_dewar@my-deja.com>]

In article <37D01A39.F05FF3F4@res.raytheon.com>,
  Andy Askey <askeya@res.raytheon.com> wrote:
> I haven't followed all the posts in this thread, but I just
can't help
> but put in my opinion here.
>
> Suppose the poster was a student attempting to get the answer
to some
> assigned question.  So what?  What is the difference if a
student reads
> the answer in a book, a man page, or from a newsgroup?  The
goal of the
> student (and the teacher, I hope) is that the student learns
from the
> homework.  One thing I find lacking in the education system of
today is
> that it does not prepare a graduate for the working world.
Once a
> student becomes a member of some Software Engineering
department, he/she
> will loose points for wasting time figuring out something that
is
> available by questioning an experience coworker.  Part of the
> educational process should be to teach how to complete a task
in the
> most efficient manner.  No one ever got a promoting
rediscovering
> something that is common knowledge through the industry.  But
plenty
> succeed by applying the knowledge of others to develop new
ideas.


Andy, reread the thread, I think you will find that people
basically agree with you. It is fine if you have a problem
to ask for help, it is not fine to ask someone else to do
your work for you, and then claim it as your own.

In fact when I teach CS courses, I explain at the start
that it is just fine to borrow code from anywhere, under
any circumstances *PROVIDING THAT* proper credit is given,
and I note that if the top of your assignment says "this
was written entirely by so-and-so who helped me out", that
this is not cheating, but you won't get much credit.

The one and ONLY offence is plagiarism, which is copying
without attribution. This is not acceptable even when you
have a "real" job. If a coworker writes a chunk of code
for you, then that coworker should get proper credit.

In fact the best thing to do when a student asks for help,
especially if the student makes it clear that he understands
that this is what is reasonable to ask for, is to point the
student in the right direction to learn.

Remember that when a professor gives out an assignment in a
CS course, the assignment is NOT to turn in a program that
does XYZ, it is to *learn* how to write a program that does
XYZ, and I think we all understand that doing things yourself
is an essential part of learning.

Would you hire someone who had never written a program, but
had instead got someone on CLA to write all their programs
for them? I doubt it, because while you may be able to persuade
someone to write a simple program for you, you don't see people
posting here the specs for a complex project and expecting
people to do it for them.

As for the net being different from books, it is not. If what
you do is to point people to appropriate net resources, that's
just fine, and we often try to do that. But if you do someone's
work for them, that's not at all equivalent to a book!

I think competent students understand the difference without
any difficulty.


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.