Re: take the 20 second lang. survey

Re: take the 20 second lang. survey

[Gautier]

> Take the 20-second language survey.  No personal information must be
> entered.  This is only a survey steming from my personal interest--it is
> not affiliated with any organization.

> http://www.recordingwebsite.com/language.html

Please redo from start: there are HUGE mistakes in your survey:

1) there are languages where OO and procedural can be mixed
   (Delphi, extended Pascal, Ada, and surely others)

2) the 1st standardized OO language is missing in your
   OOL part: Ada (95) ...

3) all your questions are independant of OO features - and the
   main languages (with or without OO) are missing in your choices...

Highest Performance
   Ada, Fortran missing

Most Flexible
   Ada, Delphi missing

Shortest Development Time
   Ada, Delphi missing

Easiest to Learn
   all choices should be there, hey!

Most Portable
   Ada

Most "Robust" Standard Library
   Ada

-- 
Gautier

--------
http://members.xoom.com/gdemont/

Re: take the 20 second lang. survey

[Faried Nawaz]

Gautier <gautier.demontmollin@maths.unine.ch> writes:

  2) the 1st standardized OO language is missing in your
     OOL part: Ada (95) ...

CL -- standardized in 1994.

Re: take the 20 second lang. survey

[David C. Hoos, Sr.]

Faried Nawaz <fn@hungry.org> wrote in message
news:lwso5lq3zw.fsf@siren.hungry.com...
> Gautier <gautier.demontmollin@maths.unine.ch> writes:
>
>   2) the 1st standardized OO language is missing in your
>      OOL part: Ada (95) ...
>
> CL -- standardized in 1994.
He probably meant to say _internationally_ standardized.  Ada95 was the
first such.

Re: take the 20 second lang. survey

[Florian Weimer]

"David C. Hoos, Sr." <david.c.hoos.sr@ada95.com> writes:

> >   2) the 1st standardized OO language is missing in your
> >      OOL part: Ada (95) ...
> >
> > CL -- standardized in 1994.
> He probably meant to say _internationally_ standardized.  Ada95 was the
> first such.

Are you sure? IEEE Scheme dates from 1990, and it supports
message-passing style programming. ;)

Re: take the 20 second lang. survey

[David C. Hoos, Sr.]

Florian Weimer <fw@s.netic.de> wrote in message
news:871zd58njm.fsf@deneb.cygnus.qad.org...
> "David C. Hoos, Sr." <david.c.hoos.sr@ada95.com> writes:
>
> > >   2) the 1st standardized OO language is missing in your
> > >      OOL part: Ada (95) ...
> > >
> > > CL -- standardized in 1994.
> > He probably meant to say _internationally_ standardized.  Ada95 was the
> > first such.
>
> Are you sure? IEEE Scheme dates from 1990, and it supports
> message-passing style programming. ;)

When did IEEE Scheme achieve IEC/ISO standardization?

Re: take the 20 second lang. survey

[Florian Weimer]

"David C. Hoos, Sr." <david.c.hoos.sr@ada95.com> writes:

> > > He probably meant to say _internationally_ standardized.  Ada95 was the
> > > first such.
> >
> > Are you sure? IEEE Scheme dates from 1990, and it supports
> > message-passing style programming. ;)
> 
> When did IEEE Scheme achieve IEC/ISO standardization?

IEEE standardization documents do qualify as international standards,
don't they?

Re: take the 20 second lang. survey

[Marin David Condic]

"David C. Hoos, Sr." wrote:

> Florian Weimer <fw@s.netic.de> wrote in message
> news:871zd58njm.fsf@deneb.cygnus.qad.org...
> > "David C. Hoos, Sr." <david.c.hoos.sr@ada95.com> writes:
> >
> > > >   2) the 1st standardized OO language is missing in your
> > > >      OOL part: Ada (95) ...
> > > >
> > > > CL -- standardized in 1994.
> > > He probably meant to say _internationally_ standardized.  Ada95 was the
> > > first such.
> >
> > Are you sure? IEEE Scheme dates from 1990, and it supports
> > message-passing style programming. ;)
>
> When did IEEE Scheme achieve IEC/ISO standardization?

I'll bet this could qualify on the following grounds: "Standards are such a
wonderful thing that everyone should have one of their own." ;-) Doesn't
something become "standardized" once you have written down a set of rules? How
widely accepted and used the "standard" is may be debatable.

Of course having a validation suite and some form of legal control of the
language name might go a long way to making a standard actually mean something.
For example, I don't know that you can't write a compiler for some language,
label it C++ and have the unsuspecting assume that your compiler adheres to any
sort of language standard at all. I think when Ada got started, the DoD's
ownership of the name and insistence on validation gave some credibility to the
standard.

MDC
--
Marin David Condic
Real Time & Embedded Systems, Propulsion Systems Analysis
United Technologies, Pratt & Whitney, Large Military Engines
M/S 731-95, P.O.B. 109600, West Palm Beach, FL, 33410-9600
***To reply, remove "bogon" from the domain name.***

Visit my web page at: http://www.mcondic.com/

Re: take the 20 second lang. survey

[Gisle S�lensminde]

In article <lwso5lq3zw.fsf@siren.hungry.com>, Faried Nawaz wrote:
>Gautier <gautier.demontmollin@maths.unine.ch> writes:
>
>  2) the 1st standardized OO language is missing in your
>     OOL part: Ada (95) ...
>
>CL -- standardized in 1994.

Ada was the first _International_ standarized language, and became an
international standard in 1995 short time before Common Lisp. Common Lisp
became an American standard i 1994, but that was not the first
standardized OO language.

Simula became Swedish standard in 1967, 27 years before Common Lisp.

--
Gisle S�lensminde ( gisle@ii.uib.no )   

Re: take the 20 second lang. survey

[Sian Leitch]

[-- Warning: decoded text below may be mangled, UTF-8 assumed --]
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1127 bytes --]

gisle@apal.ii.uib.no (Gisle S�lensminde) writes:

> In article <lwso5lq3zw.fsf@siren.hungry.com>, Faried Nawaz wrote:
> >Gautier <gautier.demontmollin@maths.unine.ch> writes:
> >
> >  2) the 1st standardized OO language is missing in your
> >     OOL part: Ada (95) ...
> >
> >CL -- standardized in 1994.
> 
> Ada was the first _International_ standarized language, and became an
> international standard in 1995 short time before Common Lisp. Common Lisp
> became an American standard i 1994, but that was not the first
> standardized OO language.

Why do you omit the fact that in December 1968 the General Assembly of IFIP
approved the document "Report on the Algorithmic Language Algol 68"?
That was an international standard long before Ada was ever thought
of, let alone standardised. The "Revised Report on the Algorithmic
Language Algol 68" was also approved by IFIP in 1974. You omitted that
also.

Is that because you're an Ada freak and so other international
programming languages just don't exist?

-- 
Sian Leitch

Are you one of the lucky people who has prepared for Y2K?
Or is your head still in the sand?

Re: take the 20 second lang. survey

[Peter da Silva]

[-- Warning: decoded text below may be mangled, UTF-8 assumed --]
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 508 bytes --]

In article <37B53B2E.93F493C@maths.unine.ch>,
Gautier  <gautier.demontmollin@maths.unine.ch> wrote:
>2) the 1st standardized OO language is missing in your
>   OOL part: Ada (95) ...

Ada is object oriented? I know it has operator overloading, but that's only
a small part of OO.

-- 
In hoc signo hack, Peter da Silva <peter@baileynm.com>
 `-_-'   Ar rug t� barr�g ar do mhact�re inniu? 
  'U`    << <KH> you did technical support for Hell ?
            <susan> Didn't we all, in our youth? >:) >>

Re: take the 20 second lang. survey

[Gautier]

> Ada is object oriented? I know it has operator overloading, but that's only
> a small part of OO.

The Ada*95* standard has brought inheritance, classes, etc.
There is no prefixed notation - so 2 kinds of objects
can be parameters of a method or a binary operator without jaleaousy...
Procedural and OO can live happily together, it seems.
Surely people more advanced in OO programming in Ada will
comtribute to the discussion...

Note that the Ada 83 has already an inheritance notion
with subtypes.

-- 
Gautier

--------
http://members.xoom.com/gdemont/

Re: take the 20 second lang. survey

[Thomas Quinot]

[-- Warning: decoded text below may be mangled, UTF-8 assumed --]
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 492 bytes --]

Dans comp.lang.ada, Peter da Silva �crit :

>Ada is object oriented? I know it has operator overloading, but that's only
>a small part of OO.

Operator overloading has little to do with OO. The key mechanisms
that are useful to support the OO programming model in a language
are encapsulation (the association of a data type and its operation
in a language construct), inheritance and run-time polymorphism.
Yes, Ada 95 has all of these.

Thomas.

-- 
    Thomas.Quinot@Cuivre.FR.EU.ORG

Re: take the 20 second lang. survey

[Samuel Tardieu]

>>>>> "Peter" == Peter da Silva <peter@baileynm.com> writes:

Peter> Ada is object oriented? I know it has operator overloading, but
Peter> that's only a small part of OO.

"Ada" means "the latest Ada ISO standard", a.k.a "Ada95" today. And it 
has inheritance with extensions, polymorphism, etc. See
http://www.adahome.com/ for a good start.

  Sam
-- 
Samuel Tardieu -- sam@ada.eu.org

Re: take the 20 second lang. survey

[David C. Hoos, Sr.]

Peter da Silva <peter@baileynm.com> wrote in message
news:7p40ge$7la@web.nmti.com...
> In article <37B53B2E.93F493C@maths.unine.ch>,
> Gautier  <gautier.demontmollin@maths.unine.ch> wrote:
> >2) the 1st standardized OO language is missing in your
> >   OOL part: Ada (95) ...
>
> Ada is object oriented? I know it has operator overloading, but that's
only
> a small part of OO.
>
Well.. perhaps you didn't know that record and private types may be extended
as part of type derivation to support general single inheritance; class-wide
types provide class-wide type matching, and use automatic dispatching when
passed to a primitive operation to provide run- time polymorphism.

Re: take the 20 second lang. survey

[Peter da Silva]

[-- Warning: decoded text below may be mangled, UTF-8 assumed --]
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 841 bytes --]

In article <7p4437$ii8@hobbes.crc.com>,
David C. Hoos, Sr. <david.c.hoos.sr@ada95.com> wrote:
>> Ada is object oriented? I know it has operator overloading, but that's
>only
>> a small part of OO.

>Well.. perhaps you didn't know that record and private types may be extended
>as part of type derivation to support general single inheritance; class-wide
>types provide class-wide type matching, and use automatic dispatching when
>passed to a primitive operation to provide run- time polymorphism.

No, sir, I didn't. This new-fangled Ada-95 stuff is really something, ain't
it?

Thanks for all the email, folks.

-- 
In hoc signo hack, Peter da Silva <peter@baileynm.com>
 `-_-'   Ar rug t� barr�g ar do mhact�re inniu? 
  'U`    << <KH> you did technical support for Hell ?
            <susan> Didn't we all, in our youth? >:) >>