* Re: Writing Book, Need Ada Ammunition
1999-07-21 0:00 Writing Book, Need Ada Ammunition Ken O. Burtch
@ 1999-07-21 0:00 ` David Botton
1999-07-21 0:00 ` Martin C. Carlisle
` (2 subsequent siblings)
3 siblings, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread
From: David Botton @ 1999-07-21 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
Check out some of the new and up and coming projects on
http://www.adapower.com
Some tasks like using COM objects are already easier with Ada then C++
It should be easy to use Annex E and GLADE and even have access to COM
objects on NT from Linux machines.
There are multiple bindings for CORBA, compilation to the JVM, and more.
David Botton
Ken O. Burtch wrote in message ...
>I'm look for any surveys/stats/personal testimonies you can give me to
>support the idea that in general Ada is not a "declining language". For
>example, anything about educational institutions using Ada, words from
>authors who have published Ada books, and the value of Ada against popular
>languages. That sort of thing.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread* Re: Writing Book, Need Ada Ammunition
1999-07-21 0:00 Writing Book, Need Ada Ammunition Ken O. Burtch
1999-07-21 0:00 ` David Botton
@ 1999-07-21 0:00 ` Martin C. Carlisle
1999-07-21 0:00 ` jerry
1999-07-23 0:00 ` Tucker Taft
3 siblings, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread
From: Martin C. Carlisle @ 1999-07-21 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
In article <FF89y7.Cq6@tiamet.vaxxine.com>,
Ken O. Burtch <ken@tiamet.vaxxine.com> wrote:
>I'm look for any surveys/stats/personal testimonies you can give me to
>support the idea that in general Ada is not a "declining language". For
>example, anything about educational institutions using Ada, words from
>authors who have published Ada books, and the value of Ada against popular
>languages. That sort of thing.
Try http://www.acm.org/sigada/education
Ada is not a well-hyped language like Java, but has solid educational value,
and Ada tools vendors report increasing sales.
--Martin
--
Martin C. Carlisle, Asst Prof of Computer Science, US Air Force Academy
carlislem@acm.org, http://www.usafa.af.mil/dfcs/bios/carlisle.html
DISCLAIMER: This content in no way reflects the opinions, standards or
policy of the US Air Force Academy or the United States Government.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: Writing Book, Need Ada Ammunition
1999-07-21 0:00 Writing Book, Need Ada Ammunition Ken O. Burtch
1999-07-21 0:00 ` David Botton
1999-07-21 0:00 ` Martin C. Carlisle
@ 1999-07-21 0:00 ` jerry
1999-07-22 0:00 ` David Botton
1999-07-22 0:00 ` Larry Kilgallen
1999-07-23 0:00 ` Tucker Taft
3 siblings, 2 replies; 14+ messages in thread
From: jerry @ 1999-07-21 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
Ken O. Burtch <ken@tiamet.vaxxine.com> wrote:
: I'm working on a book on Linux programming using Ada 95 and the gnat
: compiler. The book company I'm speaking with doesn't have a problem
: publishing a Linux book, but they feel that Ada is a "declining language"
: that nobody is interested in and that has no future.
How about the number of Ada books published by the competition... have
a look at amazon.com.
--
-- Jerry van Dijk | Leiden, Holland
-- Team Ada | jdijk@acm.org
-- see http://stad.dsl.nl/~jvandyk
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: Writing Book, Need Ada Ammunition
1999-07-21 0:00 ` jerry
@ 1999-07-22 0:00 ` David Botton
1999-07-22 0:00 ` Larry Kilgallen
1 sibling, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread
From: David Botton @ 1999-07-22 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
Or check out
http://www.adapower.com/books
There you will find a list of Ada books and links to the publishers along
with a price search engine to get you the best deal on the books.
David Botton
jerry@jvdsys.stuyts.nl wrote in message ...
>Ken O. Burtch <ken@tiamet.vaxxine.com> wrote:
>
>: I'm working on a book on Linux programming using Ada 95 and the gnat
>: compiler. The book company I'm speaking with doesn't have a problem
>: publishing a Linux book, but they feel that Ada is a "declining language"
>: that nobody is interested in and that has no future.
>
>How about the number of Ada books published by the competition... have
>a look at amazon.com.
>
>--
>-- Jerry van Dijk | Leiden, Holland
>-- Team Ada | jdijk@acm.org
>-- see http://stad.dsl.nl/~jvandyk
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: Writing Book, Need Ada Ammunition
1999-07-21 0:00 ` jerry
1999-07-22 0:00 ` David Botton
@ 1999-07-22 0:00 ` Larry Kilgallen
1999-07-22 0:00 ` Markus Kuhn
1 sibling, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread
From: Larry Kilgallen @ 1999-07-22 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
In article <FF8tz4.77@stuyts.nl>, jerry@jvdsys.stuyts.nl writes:
> Ken O. Burtch <ken@tiamet.vaxxine.com> wrote:
>
> : I'm working on a book on Linux programming using Ada 95 and the gnat
> : compiler. The book company I'm speaking with doesn't have a problem
> : publishing a Linux book, but they feel that Ada is a "declining language"
> : that nobody is interested in and that has no future.
>
> How about the number of Ada books published by the competition... have
> a look at amazon.com.
How about the fact that none of those other books are specifically
aimed at the Linux user. I would think having the only book with
a particular slant would count for something.
Larry Kilgallen
P.S., I will buy a copy.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: Writing Book, Need Ada Ammunition
1999-07-22 0:00 ` Larry Kilgallen
@ 1999-07-22 0:00 ` Markus Kuhn
1999-07-22 0:00 ` Larry Kilgallen
1999-07-23 0:00 ` Aidan Skinner
0 siblings, 2 replies; 14+ messages in thread
From: Markus Kuhn @ 1999-07-22 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
In article <1999Jul22.141618.1@eisner>, kilgallen@eisner.decus.org (Larry Kilgallen) writes:
|> > How about the number of Ada books published by the competition... have
|> > a look at amazon.com.
|>
|> How about the fact that none of those other books are specifically
|> aimed at the Linux user. I would think having the only book with
|> a particular slant would count for something.
The probably most important aspect of this book should be that it
does not only treat the Ada language along as all the other Ada
books do, but that it introduces right from the beginning the use of
all the libraries (both existing Ada bindings and directly accessing
C library functions) that are extremely important to do something
useful under Unix.
Just look at the FAQs in this newsgroup:
- how do I open a TCP connection in Ada?
- how do I write a simple web server in Ada?
- how to I clear the screen in Ada?
- how to I get the cursor to position x/y in Ada?
- how do I access the serial/parallel port in Ada?
- how do I move sprites and generate sound effects in Ada?
- how do I access the mouse and keyboard directly in Ada?
There exists at the moment not a single book that answers these
questions. Existing Linux/Unix books answer them only for C
programmers, and existing Ada books say that this is an operating
system dependent functionality, please consult the vendor documentation
(which does not exist yet for Ada on Linux at this level).
At the moment there is no book that explains how to use the Ada
bindings to ncurses, GTK+, AdaSockets, Mesa, etc.
Tip:
I still believe that introducing Ada in a platform dependent form
by explaining how to write video games is an excellent starting point
for an exciting book or course. Video games are real-time applications
that can be very elegantly formulated with Ada's tasking capabilities.
There exist various simple Linux gaming libraries for C, and you could
distribute with your book a thick Ada binding for one of them or even
better an Ada reimplementation of one of these, such that your
readers can learn as one of the larger application examples
how to write a game purely in Ada. Existing gaming libraries
are usually front-ends for /dev/sound and for Xlib's ability to
place color bitmaps stored in the server quickly only any position
in an X window.
Explaining how to write a very simple web server or client are
usually also highly motivating examples that a book purely based
on the RM without use of additional bindings cannot use.
The programming examples provided in existing Ada books are
dull and boring.
There exists no single book yet that talks about POSIX.5 and FLORIST.
I see a huge niche here, that requires AT LEAST 3-4 different books
to fill it adequately, and your proposed project could well
become one of them.
I would certainly buy it.
Markus
--
Markus G. Kuhn, Computer Laboratory, University of Cambridge, UK
Email: mkuhn at acm.org, WWW: <http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/>
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: Writing Book, Need Ada Ammunition
1999-07-22 0:00 ` Markus Kuhn
@ 1999-07-22 0:00 ` Larry Kilgallen
1999-07-23 0:00 ` Aidan Skinner
1 sibling, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread
From: Larry Kilgallen @ 1999-07-22 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
In article <7n7rq3$h1g$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>, mgk25@cl.cam.ac.uk (Markus Kuhn) writes:
> There exists at the moment not a single book that answers these
> questions. Existing Linux/Unix books answer them only for C
> programmers, and existing Ada books say that this is an operating
> system dependent functionality, please consult the vendor documentation
> (which does not exist yet for Ada on Linux at this level).
That is really a crucial point. If I want to use an operating system
from Ada, it is really annoying to have all the examples and discussion
be in C.
Larry Kilgallen
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: Writing Book, Need Ada Ammunition
1999-07-22 0:00 ` Markus Kuhn
1999-07-22 0:00 ` Larry Kilgallen
@ 1999-07-23 0:00 ` Aidan Skinner
1999-07-24 0:00 ` Markus Kuhn
1 sibling, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread
From: Aidan Skinner @ 1999-07-23 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
On 22 Jul 1999 19:35:31 GMT, Markus Kuhn <mgk25@cl.cam.ac.uk> wrote:
>The probably most important aspect of this book should be that it
>does not only treat the Ada language along as all the other Ada
When I origionally discovered the outline mode of Emacs, shortly after
I got Learning GNU Emacs, the second thing I did was write an outline
for a GNU/Linux-Ada tutorial bookything. I've since added bits to it,
but haven't gotten around to sitting down and filling it out. I
probably should do at some point...
Actually, I'll clean it up, fill out a few bits and then post an
outline on the ALT list...
>There exists no single book yet that talks about POSIX.5 and FLORIST.
This reminds me, does anybody know if the POSIX-Ada standard has been
printed yet, and if so where can I order it from?
>I would certainly buy it.
I'd probably get the university library to buy it, read it quickly and
then stick it back, but then again I'm a poor student who prefers to
have things on his monitor than in his lap. (did that sound right?)
- Aidan (maybe I should sleep...)
--
http://www.skinner.demon.co.uk/aidan/
How much can could ICANN can if ICANN could can-can?
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: Writing Book, Need Ada Ammunition
1999-07-23 0:00 ` Aidan Skinner
@ 1999-07-24 0:00 ` Markus Kuhn
0 siblings, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread
From: Markus Kuhn @ 1999-07-24 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
aidan@skinner.demon.co.uk (Aidan Skinner) writes:
|> >There exists no single book yet that talks about POSIX.5 and FLORIST.
|>
|> This reminds me, does anybody know if the POSIX-Ada standard has been
|> printed yet, and if so where can I order it from?
Yes. POSIX.5b has a dark green cover and has been sitting on my desk for
over a year now.
From <http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/ada.html>, one of the best information
sources about Ada on the Web:
The POSIX.5b standard
IEEE Std 1003.5b-1996 Standard for Information
Technology--POSIX Ada Language Interfaces--Part 1:
Binding for System Applications Program Interface (API),
550 pages, ISBN 1-55937-758-5, USD 112 (for IEEE
members), order code SH94432-NYF
can be ordered from IEEE Publications, phone +1-732-981-1393
(1-800-678-IEEE), fax +1-732-981-9667, or from IEEE
Computer Society Publications, 10662 Los Vaqueros Circle, PO
Box 3014, Los Alamitos, CA 90720-1264, USA, phone
+1-714-821-8380, fax +1-714-821-4010.
You might also want to have a quick look at a draft of POSIX.5c
(which adds TCP/IP sockets etc., but is not yet implemented
in Florist) on
http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/volatile/
I don't know whether this one has already been published in a
final version.
Markus
--
Markus G. Kuhn, Computer Laboratory, University of Cambridge, UK
Email: mkuhn at acm.org, WWW: <http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/>
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: Writing Book, Need Ada Ammunition
1999-07-21 0:00 Writing Book, Need Ada Ammunition Ken O. Burtch
` (2 preceding siblings ...)
1999-07-21 0:00 ` jerry
@ 1999-07-23 0:00 ` Tucker Taft
1999-07-26 0:00 ` David Botton
3 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread
From: Tucker Taft @ 1999-07-23 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
Ken O. Burtch wrote:
>
> I'm working on a book on Linux programming using Ada 95 and the gnat
> compiler. The book company I'm speaking with doesn't have a problem
> publishing a Linux book, but they feel that Ada is a "declining language"
> that nobody is interested in and that has no future.
Ada is doing just fine. It doesn't have a hype engine.
However, if you look at which 3rd-generation languages are
actually being used to build *real* production quality high-performance
software in any volume, Ada is one of the top five languages.
In the embedded, real-time, or safety-critical world, it is
probably in the top three. Java is still not a high-performance
language (and certainly not a safety-critical one), and once you
get past C/C++, Ada is the primary alternative. Go to any book store,
and you will see that Ada books outnumber those for all 3rd generation
languages other than Java and C/C++ (although with Y2K, there has been a
resurgence in Cobol books ;-).
> I'm look for any surveys/stats/personal testimonies you can give me to
> support the idea that in general Ada is not a "declining language". For
> example, anything about educational institutions using Ada, words from
> authors who have published Ada books, and the value of Ada against popular
> languages. That sort of thing.
>
> I've already visited www.adahome.com. Any further support would be
> appreciated.
>
> Thanks.
>
> --
> Ken O. Burtch: System Manager in a Box / Lintel : Pegasoft
> http://www.vaxxine.com/pegasoft; BBS:905-935-0569 8N1 : R.R.#1
> Bio: 33;Bsc,UI,Lang,Games;Toons,Elves,SF,Pizza;Xian : Jordan Station, ON
> ``````````````````````````````````````````````````````` Canada L0R 1S0
--
-Tucker Taft stt@averstar.com http://www.averstar.com/~stt/
Technical Director, Distributed IT Solutions (www.averstar.com/tools)
AverStar (formerly Intermetrics, Inc.) Burlington, MA USA
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread* Re: Writing Book, Need Ada Ammunition
1999-07-23 0:00 ` Tucker Taft
@ 1999-07-26 0:00 ` David Botton
1999-07-26 0:00 ` Tucker Taft
1999-07-26 0:00 ` Ken O. Burtch
0 siblings, 2 replies; 14+ messages in thread
From: David Botton @ 1999-07-26 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
Tucker Taft wrote in message <3798F299.25A647E9@averstar.com>...
>Ada is doing just fine. It doesn't have a hype engine.
But it needs one.
Is the Ada Resource Association (ARA) an working entity?
I didn't see any contacts on the web pages.
I don't know if you have tried or read up on the automatic COM binding
generator I wrote. (http://www.adapower.com/com) Even though NT may not be
the "key" market for Ada, there are few developers who do not keep tabs on
where NT is going. I am not a professional writer, so I was looking to
contact them for assistance to write some articles / PR stories for Ada and
COM.
Before I get flamed by Linux folk for not dedicating my time to the "REAL"
OS instead (yes, I have received some interesting e-mails), Microsoft puts a
whole lot of money in to pushing ActiveX and other COM technologies. Think
about the benefits to Ada if even one article gets picked up by one of the
many Microsoft Journals or other MS PR machine.
David Botton
PS. My personal OS choice is FreeBSD, not NT or Linux.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: Writing Book, Need Ada Ammunition
1999-07-26 0:00 ` David Botton
@ 1999-07-26 0:00 ` Tucker Taft
1999-07-26 0:00 ` Ken O. Burtch
1 sibling, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread
From: Tucker Taft @ 1999-07-26 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
David Botton wrote:
>
> Tucker Taft wrote in message <3798F299.25A647E9@averstar.com>...
>
> >Ada is doing just fine. It doesn't have a hype engine.
>
> But it needs one.
>
> Is the Ada Resource Association (ARA) an working entity?
Yes. We pay for the www.adaic.org website, and subsidize
the Ada Rapporteur Group and SIGAda. We also have hired someone (Ann Brandon)
to write additional white papers, journal articles, and press releases.
If you post suggestions to comp.lang.ada for such things, she will probably
see them. However, we don't have the resources for direct advertising,
at the current time, but the conventional wisdom is that public relations
is more valuable than advertising, for a given budget. In particular,
writing articles for the various trade magazines is extremely important,
and we encourage all members of the Ada community to make an effort to
do so. Ann Brandon is available to help with editing, and in getting
such papers published.
> I didn't see any contacts on the web pages.
We point to the individual ARA member web pages, which presumably
have plenty of contacts. Also, there is a pointer to the
webmaster for the ARA and Ada I/C web sites on every page (I hope).
> David Botton
--
-Tucker Taft stt@averstar.com http://www.averstar.com/~stt/
Technical Director, Distributed IT Solutions (www.averstar.com/tools)
AverStar (formerly Intermetrics, Inc.) Burlington, MA USA
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: Writing Book, Need Ada Ammunition
1999-07-26 0:00 ` David Botton
1999-07-26 0:00 ` Tucker Taft
@ 1999-07-26 0:00 ` Ken O. Burtch
1 sibling, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread
From: Ken O. Burtch @ 1999-07-26 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
Hmmm...my last followup didn't arrive on the newsgroup, but we've had a
whole series of power outages due to thunderstorms...
Thanks for all your feedback and I'll forward your views to the book
publisher.
In answer to your some of your questions, yes, I have documented
/dev/dsp and /dev/mixer, many of the standard C library calls such as
file operations and process control, the installation and use of grasp,
Pentium optimizations under gcc and use of gprof, gnat's built-in
libraries like the hash table and bubble sort packages. If the
project gets the "go-ahead", I intend to cover the variious Ada bindings
in a reference style format. Plus there's an Ada tutorial
that covers basic language features. We need a book that puts all this
information all in one place--it's the only way people will understand
the versatility of Ada under Linux.
--
Ken O. Burtch: System Manager in a Box / Lintel : Pegasoft
http://www.vaxxine.com/pegasoft; BBS:905-935-0569 8N1 : R.R.#1
Bio: 33;Bsc,UI,Lang,Games;Toons,Elves,SF,Pizza;Xian : Jordan Station, ON
``````````````````````````````````````````````````````` Canada L0R 1S0
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread