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From: mgk25@cl.cam.ac.uk (Markus Kuhn)
Subject: Re: Ada OO Mechanism
Date: 1999/06/08
Date: 1999-06-08T00:00:00+00:00	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <7jit97$f1b$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 7jhon4$6a2$1@nnrp1.deja.com

Robert Dewar <robert_dewar@my-deja.com> writes:
|> In article <t7wvxfn75v.fsf@calumny.jyacc.com>,
|>   Hyman Rosen <hymie@prolifics.com> wrote:
|> > From a little further fooling around, followed by a trip to the Ada RM,
|> > I see that objects of class-wide type can not be record components, which
|> > I guess makes sense, but it doesn't seem very orthogonal to me.
|> 
|> There is another language that you might see here in which
|> String variables are generally permitted, and in that language
|> you would also expect to find X'Class record components (as
|> well as automatic storage management, and a generally rather
|> different semantic level).

This is exactly an example of what makes Ada so fascinating but also
so challenging to thoroughly understand for a beginner. We have on one
side simple low-level languages such as C, where the memory
representation of objects is fairly completely visible to the programmer
and where it is easy to realize what is going on behind the scenes.
On the other hand, we have very high level languages with garbage
collection such as Lisp, Scheme, Perl, Python, to some degree also
Java. They hide completely from the programmer issues such as memory
management and memory layout, they provide a very simple form of
orthogonality (everything can contain anything), but they are because
of these properties unsuitable for high-performance, low-level, real-time,
and safety-critical programming. Ada goes a very rarely seen path in
between these clearly separated communities. On one side it is a
low-level language such as C that gives the programmer tight control over
various representation issues and results in high-performance code. On
the other hand it has features such as unconstrained arrays and functions
that return variable-length objects that resemble closely more powerful
features of real high-level languages such as Scheme and Python, but that
are still implementable without the need of a garbage collector or
a byte-code interpreter.

Experienced programmers know a lot about how languages like C and Scheme
work below the hood, but since Ada is somewhere in between, this can at
first be rather confusing. Unfortunatelly, none of the textbooks
about Ada talk enough about how these features (especially
variable-length arrays, types with discriminators, subtypes, etc.) that
are not seen much in other languages are usually implemented by
compilers.

I hope that one day, somebody will write an Ada textbook, that does not just
state the various rules of the lannguage (which can be very difficult to
remember), but that explains features such as types with discriminators
and fucntions returning variable-length arrays based on examples how
common compilers such as GNAT implement these. Then the restrictions
of these mechanisms will become obvious and have not to be remembered
as a seemingly non-orthogonal set of rules. A good paper on how GNAT
implements all the features of Ada that are not obvious for a C
programmer would also be a very important teaching tool in this
respect. Is there anything comparable already available?

Markus

-- 
Markus G. Kuhn, Computer Laboratory, University of Cambridge, UK
Email: mkuhn at acm.org,  WWW: <http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/>




  reply	other threads:[~1999-06-08  0:00 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 116+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
1999-05-20  0:00 Ada OO Mechanism Shawn M. Root
1999-05-20  0:00 ` Samuel Mize
1999-05-20  0:00   ` David Botton
1999-05-20  0:00     ` Samuel Mize
1999-05-20  0:00       ` David Botton
1999-05-24  0:00   ` Hyman Rosen
1999-05-24  0:00     ` Robert Dewar
1999-05-24  0:00       ` Hyman Rosen
1999-05-24  0:00         ` Mike
1999-05-25  0:00           ` Robert Dewar
1999-05-24  0:00         ` David Starner
1999-05-24  0:00           ` bob
1999-05-24  0:00             ` David Starner
1999-05-25  0:00               ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
1999-05-25  0:00                 ` Florian Weimer
1999-05-25  0:00                 ` Mark A Biggar
1999-05-25  0:00                   ` Hyman Rosen
1999-05-25  0:00                     ` Richard D Riehle
1999-05-25  0:00                       ` David Botton
1999-05-26  0:00                         ` Tom Moran
1999-05-27  0:00                       ` Aidan Skinner
1999-05-25  0:00                     ` Samuel Mize
1999-05-25  0:00                       ` Hyman Rosen
1999-05-25  0:00                         ` Brian Rogoff
1999-05-25  0:00                           ` Jim
1999-05-26  0:00                           ` Robert Dewar
1999-05-26  0:00                             ` Brian Rogoff
1999-05-25  0:00                         ` Samuel Mize
1999-05-25  0:00                           ` Chris
1999-05-25  0:00                             ` David Botton
1999-05-27  0:00                               ` Aidan Skinner
1999-05-27  0:00                                 ` Gautier
1999-05-27  0:00                             ` Samuel Mize
1999-05-25  0:00                         ` Richard D Riehle
1999-05-25  0:00                           ` Hyman Rosen
1999-05-26  0:00                             ` Ray Blaak
1999-05-26  0:00                               ` Richard D Riehle
1999-05-26  0:00                                 ` Hyman Rosen
1999-05-27  0:00                                   ` Richard D Riehle
1999-06-05  0:00                                     ` Matthew Heaney
1999-06-07  0:00                                       ` Hyman Rosen
1999-05-28  0:00                                   ` Laurent Guerby
1999-06-05  0:00                                   ` Matthew Heaney
1999-06-07  0:00                                     ` Hyman Rosen
1999-06-08  0:00                                       ` Robert Dewar
1999-06-08  0:00                                         ` Markus Kuhn [this message]
1999-06-08  0:00                                           ` Stanley R. Allen
1999-06-08  0:00                                         ` Stanley R. Allen
1999-06-08  0:00                                       ` Matthew Heaney
1999-06-08  0:00                                         ` Hyman Rosen
1999-06-08  0:00                                           ` Samuel Mize
1999-06-08  0:00                                             ` Hyman Rosen
1999-05-26  0:00                               ` Hyman Rosen
     [not found]                           ` <t7zp2sr6yf.fsf@calumny.jyacc.c <t7emjmmx8w.fsf@calumny.jyacc.com>
1999-06-08  0:00                             ` Larry Kilgallen
1999-06-08  0:00                               ` Hyman Rosen
1999-06-08  0:00                                 ` Tucker Taft
1999-06-08  0:00                                   ` Brian Rogoff
1999-06-09  0:00                                   ` Robert Dewar
     [not found]                                   ` < <375E92CB.27850620@averstar.com>
1999-06-09  0:00                                     ` Brian Rogoff
1999-06-14  0:00                                       ` Robert A Duff
1999-06-09  0:00                                   ` Tucker Taft
1999-06-09  0:00                                 ` Matthew Heaney
1999-06-09  0:00                                 ` Samuel Mize
     [not found]                           ` <t7zp2sr6yf.fsf@calumny.jyacc.c <t7r9nmz8ou.fsf@calumny.jyacc.com>
1999-06-08  0:00                             ` Larry Kilgallen
1999-06-08  0:00                               ` Hyman Rosen
1999-06-14  0:00                                 ` Robert A Duff
     [not found]                           ` <t7zp2sr6yf.fsf@calumny.jyacc.c <375d9a3d.e1cccc63@averstar.com>
1999-06-09  0:00                             ` Larry Kilgallen
1999-06-09  0:00                               ` Tucker Taft
1999-05-27  0:00                         ` Samuel Mize
1999-05-27  0:00                           ` Jon S Anthony
1999-05-27  0:00                         ` Samuel Mize
1999-05-27  0:00                           ` Hyman Rosen
1999-05-28  0:00                             ` Laurent Guerby
1999-05-28  0:00                               ` Richard D Riehle
1999-05-28  0:00                                 ` Tom Moran
1999-05-28  0:00                             ` Samuel Mize
1999-05-28  0:00                     ` Robert I. Eachus
1999-05-28  0:00                       ` Brian Rogoff
1999-05-29  0:00                       ` Ehud Lamm
1999-05-30  0:00                         ` chris
1999-05-30  0:00                           ` Robert Dewar
1999-05-30  0:00                           ` Harry George
1999-05-30  0:00                             ` Vladimir Olensky
1999-05-31  0:00                               ` Robert Dewar
1999-05-31  0:00                           ` Vladimir Olensky
1999-06-03  0:00                             ` Dale Stanbrough
1999-06-02  0:00                               ` mike
1999-06-03  0:00                                 ` Robert Dewar
1999-06-06  0:00                                   ` David Botton
1999-06-07  0:00                                     ` Robert Dewar
1999-06-01  0:00                           ` Richard D Riehle
1999-06-03  0:00                         ` Matthew Heaney
1999-06-03  0:00                     ` Matthew Heaney
1999-05-25  0:00     ` Samuel Mize
1999-05-25  0:00       ` Hyman Rosen
1999-05-25  0:00         ` David Starner
1999-05-26  0:00         ` Laurent Guerby
1999-05-26  0:00           ` Hyman Rosen
1999-05-28  0:00             ` Laurent Guerby
1999-06-01  0:00               ` Hyman Rosen
1999-06-03  0:00                 ` Fraser Wilson
1999-05-26  0:00         ` Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen
1999-06-03  0:00     ` Matthew Heaney
1999-06-03  0:00       ` Hyman Rosen
1999-05-21  0:00 ` Dale Stanbrough
1999-05-20  0:00   ` bob
1999-05-21  0:00     ` Dale Stanbrough
1999-05-21  0:00   ` Richard D Riehle
1999-05-21  0:00     ` Marin David Condic
1999-05-21  0:00       ` Dan Nagle
1999-05-24  0:00         ` Marin David Condic
1999-05-21  0:00       ` Steve
1999-05-21  0:00     ` Shawn M. Root
1999-05-21  0:00       ` Richard D Riehle
1999-05-25  0:00         ` Shawn M. Root
1999-05-25  0:00   ` Don Overheu
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