Re: US-MN-Mpls >>> Ada Software Engineers <<<

[kevin@nospamworld.com]

In article <36C2E425.D4A791E9@hercii.mar.lmco.com>, Jerry says...
>
 
>> 
>> Actually, Ada programmers make less than C++ or Java or even C.
>> 
>

>This is your opinion but unless you have access to EVERY programmer's
>employment records, it is purely a guess.
>

It is more than a guess. It is based on a small sampling I agree, but
it is the same small sample used for C++ also.


>
>> You don't have to believe me, just go to http://www.dice.com, search
>> for Ada as key word, you'll see about 30 or so positions, with less pay than
>> C/C++/Java/Unix positions. (If you search for C++ you'll get 100's of
>> positions).
>>

>
>I just did a search and found 206 Ada positions on this site.
>

I agree. it is more than 30, but lets see the whole picture then. This is
what on dice now:

C++/C   24,256  positions open
Java     9,613  positions open
Ada        206  positions open

So, compared to C++/C, Ada has 0.8%, this is less than 1% of what C/C++ has.

Why would I look for Ada as a career, when C/C++ has more than 120 times
the amount of work out there?

>
>Again, my experience has not found this magic $50 barrier for Ada.
>

I can only go with what is out there. I called a number of agents from Dice
who handle Ada, and this is what I was told. No one even asked me how many
years I had in Ada.  There are less Ada positions, and it pays less.

>
>I find the demand for Ada very high and the rates going up.
>You have to know where to look and have the proper skills.
>

0.8 of one percent compared to C/C++ is hardly a high demand. Dice is one
of the biggest and well known places to find jobs. Do you know of
another Job bank that will proof your point?
 
>> This is my own list of software skills, listed on decreasing order
>> of pay level:
>> 
>> 1. C++/Perl/Java beans/Corba/Networking,System programming, drivers, etc..
>> 2. C/Unix/Windows/GUI/Plain Java/Swing/Web-HTML-CGI/Porting work ..
>> 3. Database stuff, oracle/sybase etc../system admin work, scripts
>> 4. VB, word, backoffice, all other MS boring stuff.
>> 5. Ada/real-time/embeded programming/defense work
>> 

>
>Again, speculation only.
>

Not really. again go to Dice and do your own search. and find out.
Go to any job newsgroup and find out. Many jobs news groups do not
even have a single Ada position open.

>
>Perhaps the places doing C++ don't care about design and software
>engineering (why I am I not supprised) but I find the ones using 
>Ada do care and are willing to pay for it.
>
 
I agree. I find that Ada programmers in general have better feel for
design issues and abstration and all those good things. I think it is
becuase the Ada language forces one to think that way.

The point was, that the Ada market for porgrammers is almost dead, and
any one thinking of choosing Ada as a career, must think twice if they
plan to be able to continue to pay the rent for few more years.

I hope this suituation will change, but I dont see what will change it. The
commerical world we live in do not care for high quality software really, it
wants something hacked quickly that looks pretty and shiny from the outside 
even if it is junk from the inside. But this is the real world we live in, 
you give the customer what they want. They are happpy for the moment, and
you are being paid well. So evey one wins.

Kevin.